Dettingen GCR might have been layout

[richard i]

Hand rails and steps on

Just the wheel and small square on the side to fix on. There are the rivets on the side which are quite obvious, but are they worth fitting? I find the transfer ones are not really noticeable once painting is done unless you are very close.

Richard

[richard i]

I have had a play with the picture

 

 

Just changng the coach side has got me slightly hooked. It is actually theraputic colouring a side.

Two things

One: What is wrong from a GCR point of view were the side lights red? The brown too light? It was supposed to be more mahogany?

two: How do i view it without printing screen and converting it in to a JPEG which loses so much resolution? If i just try to convert the gimp file it is sent back as a jpeg for every layer.

 

Also don't google download gimp on a work computer mine got very concerned about exactly what i was downloading

Please comment/ critique away,

 

Richard

[billbedford]

One: What is wrong from a GCR point of view were the side lights red? The brown too light? It was supposed to be more mahogany?

 

 

 

The side lights were red. The coaches were painted to match the teak colour of the matchboard stock, If anything the colour you have chosen is too yellow and needs to be a bit redder. The mahogany  reference is a red herring. Though these coaches were built of mahogany, the timber was chosen because it takes paint well, but because the paint is absorbed into the surface of the wood it was not scraped back and varnished. Instead they were painted to a teak colour, and judging by the photo it was a plain colour without scrumble. Gorton teak brown has been describe as being warmer, i.e. redder, than the equivalent Doncaster colour.

[richard i]

The side lights were red. The coaches were painted to match the teak colour of the matchboard stock, If anything the colour you have chosen is too yellow and needs to be a bit redder. The mahogany  reference is a red herring. Though these coaches were built of mahogany, the timber was chosen because it takes paint well, but because the paint is absorbed into the surface of the wood it was not scraped back and varnished. Instead they were painted to a teak colour, and judging by the photo it was a plain colour without scrumble. Gorton teak brown has been describe as being warmer, i.e. redder, than the equivalent Doncaster colour.

Thanks I am still trying to master it. I will have another play.

[James Harrison]

In lieu of any publically accessible GCR teak carriages to go and look at first hand*, I try to match mine to paintings, such as those by C Hamilton Ellis. 

 

 

* there are of course preserved GCR carriages, but they tend either to be restored to pre-1908 cream and brown or French grey and brown, undergoing restoration, or stored on private sites. 

[richard i]

In lieu of any publically accessible GCR teak carriages to go and look at first hand*, I try to match mine to paintings, such as those by C Hamilton Ellis. 

 

 

* there are of course preserved GCR carriages, but they tend either to be restored to pre-1908 cream and brown or French grey and brown, undergoing restoration, or stored on private sites.

Thank you,I had not seen this painting before.

Interestingly there seem to be two colours of brown. The train's coaches are a more reddy brown but the one they are passing is a yellowy brown for want of a more artistic way of phrasing it.

Richard

[gr.king]

Metropolitan Railway coach?

[James Harrison]

Metropolitan Railway coach?

 

That would be my guess too.  It looks rather unlike any GCR carriage I've seen, with those recessed doors. 

[Stephen 28]

That would be my guess too.  It looks rather unlike any GCR carriage I've seen, with those recessed doors.

 

The first two letters of Metropolitan are visible on the coach partially obscured by the GC train.

[richard i]

The first two letters of Metropolitan are visible on the coach partially obscured by the GC train.

And that shows how blind I am. Not spotting the letters.

It looks a tiny bit like the corridor clerstories used on the London extension, but the door has too few window pains in it.

[Compound2632]

The two wagons on the main line* below look rather Dalby-esque.

 

*i.e. the LNWR - note the coach behind the wagons.

[richard i]

So where do these three meet?

Just out of Euston? But then the GCR crosses over a station if I recall.

[James Harrison]

The GC/ Met joint line crosses the WCML in St Johns Wood.  It does it again a little north of Neasden. 

[Metropolitan H]

The Hamilton-Ellis painting is set just SE of Northwick Park station (Met), where the MET - with GC - cross the WCML (LNWR) just south of Kenton station on the DC lines. The viewpoint is from the NW corner of the bridge - above the park in front of Northwick Park hospital.

 

Regards

Chris H

[t-b-g]

A few pages back you posted some photos of a horsebox. None of us can really say for sure exactly what colour brown the GCR used but I thought that vehicle looked right to my eyes. I don';t think that you would be far wrong using whatever you used on that for carriages. It would make sense if they matched up anyway, as they should be in the same livery.

 

I have seen other period paintings where the brown is much more like your horsebox. In the painting above, the colours generally don't look too convincing, especially the green of the loco.

 

I don't know of any preserved GCR carriages in a painted brown finish but there are the Barnums at Ruddington that would have been varnished wood rather than painted. It would make sense if the painted finish was near to that colour, otherwise it would have looked as if the GCR had two different liveries.

 

Of course these are well weathered and old no but they give a reasonable idea of the colour to go for.

 

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7304/9396550796_f24d613497_b.jpg

 

Tony

[richard i]

A few pages back you posted some photos of a horsebox. None of us can really say for sure exactly what colour brown the GCR used but I thought that vehicle looked right to my eyes. I don';t think that you would be far wrong using whatever you used on that for carriages. It would make sense if they matched up anyway, as they should be in the same livery.

 

I have seen other period paintings where the brown is much more like your horsebox. In the painting above, the colours generally don't look too convincing, especially the green of the loco.

 

I don't know of any preserved GCR carriages in a painted brown finish but there are the Barnums at Ruddington that would have been varnished wood rather than painted. It would make sense if the painted finish was near to that colour, otherwise it would have looked as if the GCR had two different liveries.

 

Of course these are well weathered and old no but they give a reasonable idea of the colour to go for.

 

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7304/9396550796_f24d613497_b.jpg

 

Tony

Thank you Tony, I knew it was too light, but the software makes you slide three bars around to get a colour match , it is not intuitive , well at least not to me yet.

The horse box is precision one pot teak rather than the base coat then top coat they do. Then it is given a wash of brown earth to give it colour variation. That has the red in it.

Richard

[richard i]

Round two, had a bit more of a play. I can not seem to get red to behave for the lamp. Sorry Bill i tried. It feels coloured in like the BBC stuff from 20years ago. I need to work out how to make that aspect improve.

It has been interesting having a go at it.

If i can improve it would be good to have a go at a full GCR train, perhaps one of the iconic photos frommy book collection.

It has put the wagons on hold for a day or two.

Richard

[billbedford]

Round two, had a bit more of a play. I can not seem to get red to behave for the lamp. Sorry Bill i tried. It feels coloured in like the BBC stuff from 20years ago. I need to work out how to make that aspect improve

 

I think you would need to start with a higher resolution photo to get the best effect.

 

[richard i]

I think you would need to start with a higher resolution photo to get the best effect.

I agree, but I have not done it before and just wanted something simple to start on.

I have been advised elsewhere that I need to desaturate the colours, so I just need to work out how to do that.

Richard

[richard i]

Success....of sorts. I have taken down the saturation and the red side lamp now shows. It looks more realistic.

still a work in progress though as a skill.

Now for something more complicated/intricate

Richard

[richard i]

Back to models, though it was fun to learn the basics of colouring in photos. I will go back to it.

All done bar the painting. I decided not to do the rivets. I can't see them until up close. I had the devil to find wheels for the side so in the end I had to make one from a washer and some wire, a la Denny, the roding from the wheels is only representational because life is only so long, they will run in rakes so it will be hard to see anyway and I have other things to build if I am ever going to finish this layout in less than 20 years. Pragmatism getting in the way of perfection, or as close as I could ever get to it.

Richard

[Poggy1165]

Like it! I wonder what these babies were built for it the first instance. As it happens, I have a rather crummy photo of one marked 'LOCO' but I can't help but think that these would be a b****** nuisance if they arrived at the average coaling stage. Presumably you would have to dump 20 ton of coal on the track, then shovel it up by hand. Or alternatively, stand in the wagon and shovel it over the side. Unless someone can think of a better technique.

 

I can't help but think they would be better going to a power station or other location with facilities to receive hoppers. 

[richard i]

Like it! I wonder what these babies were built for it the first instance. As it happens, I have a rather crummy photo of one marked 'LOCO' but I can't help but think that these would be a b****** nuisance if they arrived at the average coaling stage. Presumably you would have to dump 20 ton of coal on the track, then shovel it up by hand. Or alternatively, stand in the wagon and shovel it over the side. Unless someone can think of a better technique.

 

I can't help but think they would be better going to a power station or other location with facilities to receive hoppers.

I think i have seen the same one, it was in LNER days so might have been used on coal hoists into a cenotaph coaling plant?

My photo from GC days makes no reference to loco so more likely for coal drops - to go to immingham? Where else on the GC had coal drops as a logical end point for the traffic?

[Poggy1165]

The photo I had in mind is in Tatlow's LNER wagons vol 1, p123. The wagon is in GC livery (not good nick) and the word 'LOCO' is barely visible.

I'm sure I have a better copy somewhere, but can't lay my hand on it. Though, typically of me, I immediately found two photos of diag 25 steel loco coal wagons each with slightly different versions of LOCO COAL lettering!

 

It's possible the hopper wagon is pictured in LNER days as GC livery lasted quite long in some cases. Anyway, these things were built 1904, so predate Immingham, and I think the drops there were more suited to wagons with end doors. 

 

My guess is these hoppers were built for a specific traffic, but what it was I have no idea. The GC committee minutes might elucidate, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[richard i]

The photo I had in mind is in Tatlow's LNER wagons vol 1, p123. The wagon is in GC livery (not good nick) and the word 'LOCO' is barely visible.

I'm sure I have a better copy somewhere, but can't lay my hand on it. Though, typically of me, I immediately found two photos of diag 25 steel loco coal wagons each with slightly different versions of LOCO COAL lettering!

 

It's possible the hopper wagon is pictured in LNER days as GC livery lasted quite long in some cases. Anyway, these things were built 1904, so predate Immingham, and I think the drops there were more suited to wagons with end doors. 

 

My guess is these hoppers were built for a specific traffic, but what it was I have no idea. The GC committee minutes might elucidate, but I wouldn't bet on it.

The second photo in Tatlow has the LOCO on the side and is dated post 1923, the first photo is pregrouping and does not have loco unless my eyes have missed it.

I think you are right about immingham, now you have said it i can visulise the drops. So open to all. What traffic were these originally built for?

Richard