Bedders Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 They might have got brown and french grey, but I doubt they had brown and cream livery. One of the quirks of the MS&L was that they only put ventilators over the smoking compartments, these were usually at the ends of the coach. Most of the photos I've seen of the all 3rd class carriages have vents over all 5 compartments, the GCR being not so bothered about lung cancer in the lower orders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted April 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2016 This is very interesting, I need a couple of MS&LR carriages for my layout although I am going for 6 wheelers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 In "The Great Central in LNER Days 2", page 56 there is a photo of a row of 6 wheelers from sideways on at Hayfield in 1926. To my eyes they are GCR carriages, but I'm not 100% certain. There are 2 full 1sts, 1 full 3rd and what appears to be a brake 3rd, all with vents above each compartment. If you don't have access to the book, I'll gladly scan it so you can see for yourself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 That photo shows coaches that have been refurbished and made into close coupled sets. The four wheeled coaches that form part of this thread had all be withdrawn from revenue service by 1910. Looking through my collection of photos where the trains are GC, and particularly the two colour passenger liveries, it is obvious that while some carriages, presumably late build stock, have roof vent on all compartments, many don't. Some carriages have no vents whiles other have vents over one or two compartments. See for instance the Biltcliffe photo on page 16 of "The Great Central in LNER Days 1" or the Biltcliffe photos in "Great Central Album" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) It's a pity we haven't got a definitive book on GC coaches, though I gather one on the Robinson designs is in preparation. The LDEC coaches are another variable in the mix. They are a different style again. It used to be possible to get body kits from Trevor Charlton, but these have not been available for years, and finding some second-hand would be like finding a unicorn. I'm pretty sure the LDEC coaches were drawn for the MRC many years ago, if anyone fancies getting out the Plastikard. (By LDEC coaches, I mean the 6 wheelers native to that company. They also had some 4wh Great Eastern jobbies that carried miners about for years - not sure exactly when those were withdrawn.) EDIT MRC 8/76 for the LDEC coach drawings, according to a source I have found. IIRC the panelling is a bit simpler than the MS&L coaches, so they might be easier to do from scratch. Edited April 6, 2016 by Poggy1165 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 The four wheeled coaches that form part of this thread had all be withdrawn from revenue service by 1910. Sorry, forgot it was a 4 wheeled coach rather than 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 That photo shows coaches that have been refurbished and made into close coupled sets. The four wheeled coaches that form part of this thread had all be withdrawn from revenue service by 1910. Looking through my collection of photos where the trains are GC, and particularly the two colour passenger liveries, it is obvious that while some carriages, presumably late build stock, have roof vent on all compartments, many don't. Some carriages have no vents whiles other have vents over one or two compartments. See for instance the Biltcliffe photo on page 16 of "The Great Central in LNER Days 1" or the Biltcliffe photos in "Great Central Album" I might hold off on painting to search for the French gray in the UK when I come over in the summer. What is a good colour match? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted April 6, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2016 I might hold off on painting to search for the French gray in the UK when I come over in the summer. What is a good colour match? I didn't know the French spelt grey the same as the Americans do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 I didn't know the French spelt grey the same as the Americans do. Clive we have covered this before, it is the hazards of a USA I pad predictive text. Kindly pay attention at the back boy otherwise you will have to write lines. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted April 7, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2016 I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. My spell checker thingy wanted me to spell criticise with a z. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 To my eyes at least 'French grey' has a sort of greenish cast to it. I suppose the best bet is to try to match the coach at Ingrow, which I seem to recall was restored it this livery. (I haven't seen it for about 5 years and my memory for some things is poor. (Adjective left out, but it begins with 'p'.) I have only ever used French grey once - for the ends of a GER unfitted van. The early GC coach livery strikes me as very challenging, though I have seen some beautiful jobs done. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 The GC 4 wheeled coach is in the brown/cream livery. On the brown/french grey livery the grey was solid from the cantrail down to and including the waist panels. There are close up photos by Newton in Rolt's 'The Making of a Railway' p 149 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Here's a page of some of John Quick's models which shows the difference in the two brown liveries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Here's a page of some of John Quick's models which shows the difference in the two brown liveries. So livery change was 1908 and they went in 1910, so can it be assumed that some got back into teak? ( unlikely) If not French gray looks by far the easier to produce. Richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. I will not criticise the teacher for using the wrong type of English predictive text. My spell checker thingy wanted me to spell criticise with a z. You have copy and pasted, that is cheating- two demerits 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 So livery change was 1908 and they went in 1910, so can it be assumed that some got back into teak? ( unlikely) If not French gray looks by far the easier to produce. The livery changes were; 1897 -- teak -> brown/french grey 1904 -- brown/french grey -> brown/cream 1908 -- brown/cream -> teak This was for main line carriages, it's probable there was a 3-4 year overlap where two liveries could be seen. I'm less sure about the suburban and older coaches as they are less visible in photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted April 17, 2016 Author Share Posted April 17, 2016 To make bill happy I have rectified the roof, and have worked out what the small holes on the ends are four, a hand rail for the roof access. I have got half way through its accompanying third. I have decided I prefer first class, not for comfort or because I am a snob, but because it has less doors and so less hinges and windows etc. I must get round to placing the order for the composite and brake third Richard 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 To be honest I did the roof as it would annoy me once I knew it was wrong, bill nearly pointed it out. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I just find it amusing they couldn't be bothered to ventilate the non-smokers. I mean there's economy, and economy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted April 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2016 What do you think the drop ligt window was for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 What do you think the drop ligt window was for?Peeing out of as my mother will testify I had to do when very little traveling on a non corridor train in Germany in the seventies. I was held up to perform at the drop light .........not whilst passing through a station.Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Can we ask the Mods to install a "Too Informative" rating button?!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Can we ask the Mods to install a "Too Informative" rating button?!? You asked!I promise no more stories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share Posted April 24, 2016 And the next. A 4 wheel third It has not worked out quite right on one side but I hope filler will cover the issue up. Next time I will try fitting the hinges and then the top to bottom half of the sides. It is complete on the outside just the inside to go. Just ordered the other two coaches to make the train, and a few extra wagons, just to keep me busy. Richard 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retfordlad Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 The Colonies ?? Where abouts ...I moved there 22 years ago just digging g my stuff out and fiddling about setting up a joint GWR / SR line ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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