Black Sheep Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 We're having a loft conversion done, we've got the plans drawn up and planning permission granted but we live in a mid terrace house. I've been trying to get my head around what I need to do and include to not fall foul of the party wall act but I can't seem to get a straight answer. Has anyone been through this process who can shed some light on the matter? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
multiprinter Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Perhaps this link will help: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/responsibilities/beforeyoustart/otherpermissions/partywall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2014 Another link here, at the bottom of which is a booklet you can download. https://www.gov.uk/party-wall-etc-act-1996-guidance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jones Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 We're having a loft conversion done, we've got the plans drawn up and planning permission granted but we live in a mid terrace house. I've been trying to get my head around what I need to do and include to not fall foul of the party wall act but I can't seem to get a straight answer. Has anyone been through this process who can shed some light on the matter? Thanks Hi, Have you used an architect for your plans etc? - if so they should have adressed this issue for you - most architects will project manage the build for you but will charge a percentage - we were quoted 13% + vat of the overal project cost. Don't take this as gospel, but if you are doing a "dormer window" type loft conversion and you are not going right up to boundaries of the property, I don't think the party wall act would be applicable - provided the dividing wall of the terrace go right the way up to the roof, all you would need to do would be to plaster these walls - but to play safe, I would suggest that you ensure that you have given both neighbours copies of your plans and a "Party Wall notice" as detailled in the guidance that the previous replies have given you links to. You didn't mention Building Regs approval - that is seperate from planning permission and details the specifications of the build - you will need to get that as well We looked at a terraced house, many years ago, which had a common loft space - now that would give you problems with a loft conversion! Hope that helps best wishes Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOARD OF TRADE Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 If you can give some more info about what you intend to do with the party wall and any associated fixtures structures etc.I may be able to help as I am a retired Solicitor although my knowledge will be mostly on any potential liability in respect of any proposed work/alterations leading to possible liability(the law of Tort),rather than current Planning/Building Regs. and also whether or not there are any covenants in respect of your adjoining properties and also whether your property is in any way a listed building. Sorry to sound complicated etc. and if you need some more explanation feel free to ask but it truly is a potential minefield. Feel free to ask and if you can P.M. me I will happily assist if you don't want to go "public" as it were. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 We did use an architect but party wall not included as apparently most folk like to do it themselves. We'll be hanging 3 steel beams between the party walls to support roof and new floor Building regs approval is what I meant to put, planning not needed as permitted development. The links detail what the party wall act is for and why etc As far as I can gather I'm formally asking neighbours permission to attach to the wall and forwarn of the noise involved in the project. What I'm struggling to find is what needs to be in the letter. Will re read as might have missed it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 2, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2014 We did use an architect but party wall not included as apparently most folk like to do it themselves. We'll be hanging 3 steel beams between the party walls to support roof and new floor Building regs approval is what I meant to put, planning not needed as permitted development. The links detail what the party wall act is for and why etc As far as I can gather I'm formally asking neighbours permission to attach to the wall and forwarn of the noise involved in the project. What I'm struggling to find is what needs to be in the letter. Will re read as might have missed it Have you tried talking to your Building Control officer? I have always found them to be very helpful. They may even be able to provide you with an example letter for your neighbours which you could re-draft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branwell Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I'd suggest you have a look at https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/207310/Party_Wall_etc._Act_1996_-_Explanatory_Booklet.pdf- it's a good explanation of the law and contains some sample letters/notices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Went through this about six years ago. Fortunately for me the neighbour was also the builder. A semi, so only the one party involved. You need to talk to the neighbours and obtain their agreement about supporting the steels on the party walls. I doubt if the architect has done the structural calculations for how big a support area you need on the party walls. Not an oversight on his part, just not easy to do without actually looking at the thickness and construction of the walls in the loft. Depending on the width of your property it can be very tight or even require a change to the section of the steels. In my case when we got to the point of fitting the steels it would not work as designed so we had to persuade the building control people that we needed to alter things somewhat. Mine was a mirror image of what the neighbour had built a few years earlier, but we still ran into problems. If their is another house in your street that has had a loft conversion it would be worth picking their brains for any practical information. Get the neighbours on side and talk to your contractor and building control and get them all to agree that any forced changes due to problems discovered when the old roof is opened up, can be dealt with without further hold ups. Allow a bit of extra cash as extra work will be the norm in any such project. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 The occupants of the houses each side bought their houses already with loft conversions completed so we're not sure how theirs have been done. Thanks for the links, I think I know what I need to do to comply with the act, Just trying to work out if I need to inform the freeholder (we're lease hold - the lease was drawn up on 14th November 1914 as a 999 year lease so no worries about length there! The lease doesn't mention needing to inform of work, merely to keep in good repair and not to restrict movement over the proposed back street of which I own the lease for half the width as it passes my property Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 On a slightly different point, don't forget to inform your insurer of the changes to the property, the key principle of the contract with your insurers is 'Utmost Good Faith', the duty to disclose all relevant facts that influence whether the Underwriters accept the insurance contract or not. In the event that you haven't disclosed the change to the property you could find that in the event of a claim it is refused, and your premiums for the year are returned, it doesn't happen often, but I have seen it happen. Insurance of the building works is the responsibility of your builder, check he has adequate cover if he causes damage to your, or adjoining properties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted December 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2014 Chris P bacon (dave) is ya man he knows lots about this sortta thing, as in he had forgotten more than I know I've only ever done one where there was a party wall agreement, that was because the brickwork was going to extend up through the loft to create a side wall of 9 inches (either side) so effectively the householder had 4 1/2 inches and they were "building" on the neighbours 4 1/2 inches, there wasn't a problem as it meant that the neighbours either side were able to extend into the loft at a later date and the householder had done the work for them. Most "ordinary" loft conversions didn't need an agreement as all the work was within the curtilage of the building. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Thanks Chris, I'm under the impression as we're bolting steel beams to the party wall then we've got to go through the motions. Any ideas how we go about the owners of one house being in Australia and renting out to family? I presume the family members do talk to each other! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Sorry to be a wet blanket, but if it was my house and I lived in Australia, no matter who the tenants were I would not be happy with the idea. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted December 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2014 Thanks Chris, I'm under the impression as we're bolting steel beams to the party wall then we've got to go through the motions. Any ideas how we go about the owners of one house being in Australia and renting out to family? I presume the family members do talk to each other! I don't think you have an issue here, if you think about it your 1st floor joists are part of the party wall and no agreement is necessary. Is the party wall in the loft a single brick or is it 2 bricks thick ? If it is 2 bricks (9 inch) do the steels that you propose to fit only bolt to "your" side of the bricks. If this is the case then the construction is within the curtilage of your building and all you need do as a courtesy is inform the neighbours that you will be working. If on the other hand there is just a single brick between the 2 of you then it is shared and you will need the permission of the homeowner with a party wall agreement. Check what your construction is first and how it will affect the neighbours property. I would ask the person who did your spec to tell you how it affects next door and if it is possible to change the spec for support if an agreement is an issue. Could be cheaper (or no difference in cost) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2014 I won't add to the party wall advice as I think that has been fairly well covered. I would comment though on the structure. Are your neighbours on the same level as you or does the site slope with one of your neighbours houses at a higher level than yours? If the latter, you will need to be very careful about removing any structural members before you have put in those extra steel beams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Sorry to be a wet blanket, but if it was my house and I lived in Australia, no matter who the tenants were I would not be happy with the idea. Ed I was thinking it making things easier to get contact details for the owners so that I can send relevant details inclusive of plans to the owners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted December 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2014 I was thinking it making things easier to get contact details for the owners so that I can send relevant details inclusive of plans to the owners. This might seem a bit mean but I wouldn't bother, The people that matter for noise etc are the existing tenants, if you didn't need planning permission and have the relevant B regs then I would carry on. I have seen householders try and be friendly by letting neighbours know what is happening but sometimes this gives the impression that it is a "negotiation" and has led to bad feeling. The worst example saw the householder give up and move ! Do exactly what planning and b regs allows you to do and enjoy the conversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Somehow my freeholders agents are now in the mix. The house is leasehold, the lease does not say it requires notification so we'll see what happens now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRail Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Suggest you download and refer to the booklet referenced in post #3 this tells you all you need to know including how to contact the owners and what to do if you cant contact them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonKing Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Suggest you download and refer to the booklet referenced in post #3 this tells you all you need to know including how to contact the owners and what to do if you cant contact them I agree, the booklet should be read and due process followed. From the description given by the OP the proposed works will fall under the auspices of the Party Wall act and should be dealt with as such, unfortunately there has been some misinformation regarding what is considered as a "Party Structure", it does not matter where the line of each demise falls as a wall can stand wholly within one parties demise but still be considered a party structure for the purposes of the act. With regards to the freeholders getting involved, this is quite normal on a leasehold property (even long leasehold) as the Freeholder will want to protect their interests. Details of how you would get freeholders approval for alterations should be included in the lease documentation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 The lease does not mention a requirement for consent or notification and implies that I rent the land and must maintain any property constructed on it I had everything sorted for a start date of 5th Jan and now I'm being told 20 working days for the solicitors of the management agents to find their copy of the lease. Anyone well versed in legalese able to have a look at the 6 page lease and advise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 well, the solicitors have agreed with my interpretation of the lease that I don't need to notify or obtain permission. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2014 well, the solicitors have agreed with my interpretation of the lease that I don't need to notify or obtain permission. Make sure you get that in writing. (Even if you have to write it down yourself and send them a copy to avoid them charging you for it.) I'm not suggesting you're going to have any problems here. Just covering all the bases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 I have it written in e-mail format, besides, I'm sure the lease will stand the same scrutiny again if needs be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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