Grovenor Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 but I wasn't aware that a significant number of models suffered from burned out motors Is that the definition of "dud"? No one else mentioned burned out motors. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 How about their model of a class 08 that didn't have outside frames? Wasn't that a dud? No, it was a kids' toy that dated from the 1950s and, no doubt, earned its corn many times over. What you term a 'dud' and what Hornby term a 'dud' are likely to be very different things. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 When I was working in the management of a 'customer service'-related business with many branches, I was taught that one of the most revealing things you could do to learn the truth about your part of the organisation was try to ring your own self up, by going through your main switchboard or customer contact desk, asking to speak to yourself about something just a little away from the commonplace, and see how well (or not!) you and your query were dealt with. Surely the person you wanted to talk to would be on the phone? And then when you they (you) rang you back you would be on the phone! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2014 Surely the person you wanted to talk to would be on the phone? And then when you they (you) rang you back you would be on the phone! Ah - that's not how it works. What is being 'tested' is the way the organisation responds to a telephone approach such as that. OK so if it actually gets as far as 'Mr X is on the 'phone' the important thing is what happens next - do you get the promise of a call back, are you diverted to his deputy, does his PA or secretary take a message and so on? You can judge an awful lot about the market awareness and care (about the product/for the customer) of an organisation by the way it responds to or 'fields' a telephone call. Simple example - we had problems with a water softener which we bought over 7 years ago so i rang the company to seek some technical advice 'ah, you need to speak to so-and-so but he's at lunch, I'll ask him to call you back' He called back, he sold me a service kit for the water softener which came complete with instructions 'but please 'phone if you have any problems'. I had a problem dismantling so duly 'phoned 'ah we sometimes get that problem, what you need to do is hit it very carefully with a mallet in such & such a place, do be careful but no need to be too gentle as long as you hit in the right place'. So off I went and it worked like a dream after a few sharp taps with a mallet - rest of job went like clockwork so I rang firm to thank them. And that was about something we bought a long time ago in modern terms - not only spares but clear advice and apologies if the person you need to speak to is not available for some reason, and that starts at the reception desk and of course is an attitude which is promulgated from the top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 At my place you would get through to the person you wanted's voicemail. You couldn't then test further, except by knowing how good you were are replying to messages left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted December 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2014 So who is going to telephone Nat Southworth with a thorny issue to test this out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 What you term a 'dud' and what Hornby term a 'dud' are likely to be very different things. Chris, I'd offer the 4VEP. It was met by general opprobrium. No doubt it sold well, so not a dud according to sales, but Hornby did implicitly acknowledge some short comings in an article in their Collectors' Club magazine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Culmhead Posted December 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2014 Further to my post #220, I received the last of my five 'Black Friday' orders yesterday afternoon - very pleased indeed! I did also have a e-mail the day before from UK Mail advising me of delivery next day. I think that at this time of year, delivery delays must be expected. One only has to read the news yesterday and today to see that 'Black Friday' and 'Manic Monday' have exceeded all expectations and logistics organisations are struggling to cope - many major retailers have been affected. One other point I think is relevant to this thread is the question of brand. IMHO Hornby is a brand name but the brand is a lot more besides, including how the name is perceived by the general public and customer's alike. At a certain model shop in Alton, I was happy browsing their extensive range and a young couple with their son came in, as they looked at the red boxes, the father commented " This is the Hornby stuff, it's really good" - just an observation of how the 'brand'is perceived. Cheers, Aidan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 At a certain model shop in Alton, I was happy browsing their extensive range and a young couple with their son came in, as they looked at the red boxes, the father commented " This is the Hornby stuff, it's really good" - just an observation of how the 'brand'is perceived. ..................and that is exactly what is so frustrating about it. If only they could deliver what they announce to people who have ordered items. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I've been thinking about a list of questions to ask Nat next time, (assuming there is a next time of course, given the vitriol here). They have to be the kind to questions where Nat will be delighted to provide direct answers. No questions about Chinese factories or improving the supply chain or logistics management or the relative priorities of tiered stales strategies now! Very much with tongue in cheek, here are my suggestions: 1. Why is Hornby the greatest model railway brand, evah? 2. Why should we choose Hornby.com as our first stop in ordering and purchasing Hornby models? 3. What kind of high jinks* does the marketing team get up to on Friday afternoons? * Non-discriminatory, non-threatening, non-hostile work environment, of course. (It goes without saying doesn't it?) 4. What are your favourite colours besides red and yellow? (It's important to include a couple of 'hard' questions, just to show we're really interested.) 5. What exciting things are you doing to promote brand awareness right now? 6. Hornby Hobbies - great or greatest British hobby company? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Whizz Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Thanks, Stationmaster, your first paragraph sums-up exactly the point I was trying to make. The only way to properly test-out your organisation's customer service - and your own team's within it - is to put yourself exactly in the position of a customer. In the quoted example that prompted my post, if Hornby had ever properly field-tested their own Returns procedure in this way, by actually physically doing every step of "returning" something to themselves, they'd have learned instantly that the label space was inadequate to write their own address. So either they didn't ever do it, or they did but couldn't be bothered to learn the lesson and make the change. Either is poor, but the second is actually worse! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 I've been thinking about a list of questions to ask Nat next time, (assuming there is a next time of course, given the vitriol here). They have to be the kind to questions where Nat will be delighted to provide direct answers. No questions about Chinese factories or improving the supply chain or logistics management or the relative priorities of tiered stales strategies now! Very much with tongue in cheek, here are my suggestions: 1. Why is Hornby the greatest model railway brand, evah? 2. Why should we choose Hornby.com as our first stop in ordering and purchasing Hornby models? 3. What kind of high jinks* does the marketing team get up to on Friday afternoons? * Non-discriminatory, non-threatening, non-hostile work environment, of course. (It goes without saying doesn't it?) 4. What are your favourite colours besides red and yellow? (It's important to include a couple of 'hard' questions, just to show we're really interested.) 5. What exciting things are you doing to promote brand awareness right now? 6. Hornby Hobbies - great or greatest British hobby company? A big laugh at this end of the fibreoptic. Nat's quite happy to talk to us some more in the New Year so I'll put you down for the Paxman job Michael. I've not disguised my thoughts about Facebook interaction so #3 tickled me - I see one of today's posts https://www.facebook.com/officialhornby/photos/a.10150197267445843.309835.53107985842/10152484299575843/?type=1&theaterbrought some quality responses back. Don't get me wrong there a few perfectly sensible people out there but dear me; some people really should have their keyboard/smartphone taken off them for the next 10 years or so. I spoke to the chap who does their social media the other day and genuinely asked how some of the stuff (particularly the "what are you doing for the weekend?" type of posts) does to give a benefit to the business and found a response that it was so that "Hornby became part of people's lives". I must be getting old, and certainly grumpier, because I don't 'get' it. I've tried to explore my apparent confusion over the value of such engagement with our pet grunt and in the words of a media savvy 17 year-old "I hate it when businesses pretend to be matey; just tell me what you're offering and why it's good for me". Can't say fairer than that. I know Hornby want to encourage the pester pound but I am scratching my head a bit here. Good news though for everyone who's too late to grab a K1, the chocolate refills are in stock now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 ... the chocolate refills are in stock now. Well that's a relief. Glad they've sorted out that corner of the supply chain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I spoke to the chap who does their social media the other day and genuinely asked how some of the stuff (particularly the "what are you doing for the weekend?" type of posts) does to give a benefit to the business and found a response that it was so that "Hornby became part of people's lives". If they want to be part of our lives, make sure they order enough Exeters, deliver models when promised, deliver models to an acceptable standard and above all don't p*ss off your network of dealers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I spoke to the chap who does their social media the other day and genuinely asked how some of the stuff (particularly the "what are you doing for the weekend?" type of posts) does to give a benefit to the business and found a response that it was so that "Hornby became part of people's lives". ... in the words of a media savvy 17 year-old "I hate it when businesses pretend to be matey; just tell me what you're offering and why it's good for me". Can't say fairer than that. Indeed so. Of course The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has the perfect quote for this (one of many actually): The Encyclopedia Galactica defines a robot as a mechanical apparatus designed to do the work of a man. The marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation defines a robot as "Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun to Be With." "Share and Enjoy." (launches loud mp3) So much for 'matey' marketing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 IMO. the plot was lost when Tri-ang (Lines Bros) took over Hornby-Dublo (Meccano Ltd) The 'Dublo'* products, although superior, (their S/D wagons, the D's B's of the day) were, gradually. side-lined (Through Wrenn and, later, Dapol ) Thus, Hornby was re-born, riding on the name, but, continuing to produce the 'Toys' of Tri-ang*.... Larry G. mentions 'consistency' of locos, and Ozexpatriate brings the 4-VEP into play...... ....If only,....IF only,.. Hornby would look at their inconsistency regarding their latter day models of SR / BR (S) EMUs., comparing the poorly powered, formatted, 'Networker' & 4-VEP, through the 1/2 way decent 2-BIL & 2-HAL, to their 'All singin', all dancin' 5-BEL. At the very least, Bachmann have made the effort to be consistent with their EMU models, not to mention their DMUs and Kernow's DEMUs. * P.S. Just a thought...... ....Maybe ?, it might pay dividends if Hornby could re-brand their 'Super detailed' models as 'Hornby Dublo, and 'Railroad' as 'Tri-ang' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted December 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2014 Further to my post #220, I received the last of my five 'Black Friday' orders yesterday afternoon - very pleased indeed! I did also have a e-mail the day before from UK Mail advising me of delivery next day. I think that at this time of year, delivery delays must be expected. One only has to read the news yesterday and today to see that 'Black Friday' and 'Manic Monday' have exceeded all expectations and logistics organisations are struggling to cope - many major retailers have been affected. At the risk of appearing supportive and positive-ish it appears pretty much all online retailers and their logisitics chains have been caught by Black Friday/Cyber Monday. Even Tesco & John Lewis had their websites crash and delivery firms are struggling across the country with the sheer volume, so we can perhaps cut Hornby a bit of slack as they are in esteemed company. Still want my Network Rail TTS 37 before Xmas though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I spoke to the chap who does their social media the other day and genuinely asked how some of the stuff (particularly the "what are you doing for the weekend?" type of posts) does to give a benefit to the business and found a response that it was so that "Hornby became part of people's lives" Do they not realise that there are tens of thousands of us for whom Hornby are part of our lives already. That we want to make multiple purchases, totalling far more than the transient one off purchase of a £99 train set that trolling Facebook will provide. Hornby please stop using these.... Stop saying stupid things... Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy P Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Just a thought...... ....Maybe ?, it might pay dividends if Hornby could re-brand their 'Super detailed' models as 'Hornby Dublo, and 'Railroad' as 'Tri-ang' i think the Tri-ang and Dublo names would be lost on the current "Christmas train set" customer. These items could be "Hornby" and sold through non-specialist outlets or via Hornby Direct but they need to maintain some sort of presence on the high street or risk being thought of as only a name from the past. The Enthusiast / Modeller / Collector might be happy to purchase something better from the same stable but marked up (unfortunate phrase!) as a Bassett-Lowke by Hornby. I once suggested (on MREmag) that a magazine, aimed at the train set user/ younger enthusiast should be available next to the comics in newsagents to keep the Hornby name visible on the High Street in the absence of old fashioned toy shops. When the Hornby Magazine subsequently (not consequently!) appeared, it wasn't quite what I'd had in mind. I can understand how the Corgi range can be clearly seen as models for enthusiasts and children's toys under the same banner. If nothing else, the price tells us which is which. I suspect the same may be true of Scalextric. Hornby railways face a similar issue but trying to please all the people all the time pleases no one. Railroad isn't cheap enough and "main-range" risks being not good enough if they try to kill two birds with one stone. The ranges should be considered in the same way as the 1;50 scale "Hauliers of Renown" and the "Superhaulers" toys. No mistaking what's what! And of course, anyone is free to collect the cheap stuff if they desire or the top stuff if they can afford to. RP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Just a thought...... ....Maybe ?, it might pay dividends if Hornby could re-brand their 'Super detailed' models as 'Hornby Dublo, and 'Railroad' as 'Tri-ang' I seem to remember that Hornby lost the rights to the Triang name somewhere along the way. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2014 At the risk of appearing supportive and positive-ish it appears pretty much all online retailers and their logisitics chains have been caught by Black Friday/Cyber Monday. Even Tesco & John Lewis had their websites crash and delivery firms are struggling across the country with the sheer volume, so we can perhaps cut Hornby a bit of slack as they are in esteemed company. Still want my Network Rail TTS 37 before Xmas though Companies that plan for it can manage - or at least manage to do far better. The entire process is so remarkably simple it is almost unbelievable - you have a sales promtion which you hope will bring in extra business, therefore you increase your resources to deal with it (and that is not as difficult as it sounds in today's world of zero hours contracts and lots of folk looking for work). You do what the Post Office and BR used to do and you increase your handling facilities and staffing (and number of trains) to handle the expected peak in additional parcels traffic and you make sure you are ready to get maximum availability out of your delivery fleet including hiring in extra resources. yes transit times will increase - but hopefully not by very much but there is no need for despatch times to increase by more than a day or two if a business resources to deal with ts expected level of extra business. All of this was what used to happen in the lead up to Christmas - without the aid of fancy computerised 'scheduling programmes' and lots of folk in suits and expensive offices but practical and experienced people setting things up and running them. Black Friday and murky Monday are simply an extra, and pre-planned, blip of movement and quantity. If you can't plan for that you shouldn't be in an online or mail order type of business (or, in advance, you should hire some staff or an agency who know what they're doing). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I seem to remember that Hornby lost the rights to the Triang name somewhere along the way. Keith The Triang name was sold off 44 years ago, according to the Hornby history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 If it was still Triang-Hornby, some wit would prefer Try hang Hornby.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2014 Yes, Minister. I'm afraid the replies are in the somewhat non-specific corporate-speak I had expected though hoped something more might have emerged. I remain seriously concerned that Hornby's left hand is utterly unaware that it even has a right hand however indirectly attached let alone what it is doing. Case in point: Allegedly only 290 "Exeter" models were found in the delivery, most retailers were short-supplied but Hornby retained a fair number for direct sales. Yet a model shop local to me in far-away Australia received their full order and has 34001 on the shelf (albeit at a much higher price but that's due to the import duty regime) of anyone who cares to purchase ..... The truth still seems to be economical on that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted December 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2014 I've just read the Jan 2015 issue of BRM. There are several really good interviews with Oxford, Rapido & Kernow as well as more Warley updates. I also recall Bachmann did a long interview in another mag a few months back. None of them used corporate style answers, and there were clear statements of intent from Oxford and Rapido as well as open discussion of the issues facing the market. What I read is good news for customers and enthusiasts. Over to Hornby to find someone who can provide an equivalent response. The 2015 announcements and follow up activity better be good as the competition is way ahead in the PR game....... If everyone delivers new product in 2015 then there will be some serious showdowns and markers put down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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