Hornby announce 'K-type' 1928 Pullman Cars

[teaky]

Interestingly some of the 2016 versions are list as car no. Not third class. Likely to be later version.

I've just looked at the Hornby website and the descriptions aren't crystal clear so perhaps we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Hornby new K types are pre war - the non named carriages are all 'Third Class' rather than 'Car No', so based on the news from Graham_Muz from my post on the 2016 releases thread, the train pack Hornby intends to release represents carriages and loco from a pre-war operation, not post war. I could dwell on the choice of Garganey, but I suggest there is little point given this loco was renamed circa a year after its release to traffic.

 

So, it looks like we are short a 3rd kitchen car for a 7 car set. Ho hum.

You are correct.  All the all-steel K-types thus far have included the full "third class" wording.  The missing 3rd kitchen is either a straightforward renumbering job or wait to see if Hornby complete the set at a later date.

 

(Or there is always the plausible fiction approach - the all-steel brake developed a problem and was substituted at the last minute with a 12-wheeler.    )

Edited December 1, 2015 by teaky

[The Blue Streak]

So, For 2016, apart from the Q of S train pack there will be an additional 5 all steel K type Pullmans Bringing the complete list to -

 

Already Released  2015–

R4660 Third Class 72 Kitchen, R4661 Third Class 73 Parlour, R4662 Third Class 79 Parlour / Brake, R4663 First Class Kitchen Lorraine, R4664 First Class Parlour Agatha

2016 Announcements –

R4693 Third Kitchen 67, R4694 Third Parlour 83, R4695 Third Parlour/ Brake 80, R4396 First Kitchen Joan, R4697 First Class Parlour Ursula

R3402 Q of S train pack to include –

Brake #77, Kitchen First Thelma, Parlour First Sheila.

 

Nice job Hornby.

 

Edit - to highlight in Blue which ones I believe to have been in the two 8 car steel K sets for the original Queen of Scots.

If anyone else knows otherwise, please Post.

Edited December 3, 2015 by The Blue Streak

[teaky]

So, For 2016, apart from the Q of S train pack there will be an additional 5 all steel K type Pullmans Bringing the complete list to -

 

Already Released  2015–

R4660 Third Class 72 Kitchen, R4661 Third Class 73 Parlour, R4662 Third Class 79 Parlour / Brake, R4663 First Class Kitchen Lorraine, R4664 First Class Parlour Agatha

2016 Announcements –

R4693 Third Kitchen 67, R4694 Third Parlour 83, R4695 Third Parlour/ Brake 80, R4396 First Kitchen Joan, R4697 First Class Parlour Ursula

R3402 Q of S train pack to include –

Brake #77, Kitchen First Thelma, Parlour First Sheila.

 

Nice job Hornby.

 

Edit - to highlight in Blue which ones I believe to have been in the two 8 cars sets for the original Queen of Scots.

If anyone else knows otherwise, please Post.

There were two QoS sets with eight then reduced to seven cars in each.

 

So we need:

3rd brake - 77, 79 or 80

3rd kitchen - 67

3rd parlour - 73

1st kitchen - Thelma

1st parlour - Agatha or Sheila

3rd kitchen - 72

3rd brake - 77, 79 or 80

 

The eight car sets had an extra 3rd parlour, so that would require a renumbering of 73 to to 74, 75 or 76.  (Probably marshalled between Agatha/Sheila and 72.)

 

Whether the cars above ever ran together I can't tell from the information I have but they were allocated to the QoS sets.

 

So the good news for theFin and others wanting to model a seven car QoS is that it will soon be possible.

 

I'd welcome someone else double checking the above to make sure I haven't made any silly errors.

[The Blue Streak]

Here below is what I have found as  typical Q of S 8 car sets just after introduction of the all steel K (1928 - 30ish), of course things changed when cars needed to be taken out of Service or went to 7 cars. But I think it's a reasonable starting point.  I have to say Pullmans are a minefield, you could devote your whole hobby time to them and still come up with new snippets every day. Fascinating stuff.

 

 77, 71, 73, Thelma, Sheila, 76, 70, 78

 79, 67, 75, Phyllis, Agatha, 74, 69, 80.

[it's-er]

In reading and watching the above posts, I am amazed at the depth of knowledge RMweb members have! Willingly shared with us all.

 

Personally I'm not bothered about the particular numbers the Pullman cars on a particular named express had (sorry ...... !), but the exchanges here are a marvellous advertisement for RMweb.

 

John

[olivegreen]

In reading and watching the above posts, I am amazed at the depth of knowledge RMweb members have! Willingly shared with us all.

 

I heartily agree, and many thanks to them!

[thefin]

Anthony Ford's recent books on Pullmans are a great source of info as is the SEMG group / coupe news. Many would regard pullmans as a minefield, so I tend to restrict my interest somewhat - pre war QOS and bournemouth belle, and those that were loose and run with Southen stock. I'm just happy that Hornby has begun to produce these fine models for typical mid 1930s, and as they are so well detailed it's a shame that the research doesn't always extend to the names and numbering of the carriages, prototypically speaking.

 

I'm waiting for the earlier incarnation of the Pullman livery to be produced on these, with the 'white' band above the windows instead of the later umber. His may prove a bit of a wait, so my modelling skills may need to be resurrected.

 

Meantime, there is (was) the switching of tenders on the southern to research - another minefield, and many great sources of information and reference - all part of the interest that is this hobby - flat sided tenders for N15's (3500 gal, 4000 gal & 5000 gal), S15s and Nelsons anyone??

[teaky]

In reading and watching the above posts, I am amazed at the depth of knowledge RMweb members have! Willingly shared with us all.

 

Personally I'm not bothered about the particular numbers the Pullman cars on a particular named express had (sorry ...... !), but the exchanges here are a marvellous advertisement for RMweb.

 

John

 

 

I heartily agree, and many thanks to them!

 

Nice of you to comment chaps but in my case the credit should go to Antony Ford in the main and Steve Banks/Clive Carter to a lesser extent.

[The Blue Streak]

Nice of you to comment chaps but in my case the credit should go to Antony Ford in the main and Steve Banks/Clive Carter to a lesser extent.

 

Ditto but I cant remember which book.

I did however think it useful enough to write down , I knew it would come in Handy

[davidw]

Recently glanced at the Hornby 2016 hand book the 2016 k type Pullmans are described as 1950s livery. It'll be interesting to see how Hornby interpret that period.

Edited December 3, 2015 by davidw

[G-BOAF]

Any chance these will match the original releases of the flush-sided 1920s Hornby Pullmans (grey roof, late pullman crest, reduced lining). They will have grey roofs, but will they have the revised Pullman crest? Annoying lack of detailed description or CGI mockups.

Edited December 3, 2015 by G-BOAF

[davidw]

I'd expect grey roof, curtains (correctly absent on the 2015 cars). I hope late crest. I may ring Hornby tomorrow to find out.

[teaky]

Recently glanced at the Hornby 2016 hand book the 2016 k type Pullmans are described as 1950s livery. It'll be interesting to see how Hornby interpret that period.

Is that the standard k-type cars or the all steel k-type cars?  There is little change to the external appearance for the all-steel ones either side of WWII other than curtains but the standard k-types had their matchboard sides plated over.  Later on the more elongated Pullman crests started to be used.

 

Inevitably, there were lots and lots of other alterations specific to individual cars but Hornby seem to reflect this kind of thing more when they label cars as 1960s condition, for example many of the cars with three digit numbers.

 

As for internal modifications then it is the usual minefield.

[teaky]

Any chance these will match the original releases of the flush-sided 1920s Hornby Pullmans (grey roof, late pullman crest, reduced lining). They will have grey roofs, but will they have the revised Pullman crest? Annoying lack of detailed description or CGI mockups.

 

 

I'd expect grey roof, curtains (correctly absent on the 2015 cars). I hope late crest. I may ring Hornby tomorrow to find out.

 

It will be interesting to see if they know. 

[grob1234]

Hi Folks, probably already here, but a quick search didn't turn much up. Does anyone know what loco will be included in the train pack?

[Dominion]

The loco in the set R3402 is planned to be 4500 Garganey, in garter blue. Tom

[grob1234]

The loco in the set R3402 is planned to be 4500 Garganey, in garter blue. Tom

 

Ah thank you very much. I was hoping for a nice A3. Oh well.

 

Will just have to rename/renumber the A4 to something more suitable.

 

Train pack is still worth getting just for the coaches really, if one is aiming for a prototypical rake. 

[teaky]

Ah thank you very much. I was hoping for a nice A3. Oh well.

 

Will just have to rename/renumber the A4 to something more suitable.

 

Train pack is still worth getting just for the coaches really, if one is aiming for a prototypical rake. 

I know value is a subjective thing but the pack didn't strike me as particularly good value, especially since the Pullmans are likely to retail for less than their £50 rrp if you are patient.  I picked up a couple of all-steel K-types for £25 each a couple of weeks ago, for example.  I reckon I was lucky with timing but £35ish isn't unusual.  I will need to renumber them but that won't be expensive.

[Mark Hamlin]

I know value is a subjective thing but the pack didn't strike me as particularly good value, especially since the Pullmans are likely to retail for less than their £50 rrp if you are patient.  I picked up a couple of all-steel K-types for £25 each a couple of weeks ago, for example.  I reckon I was lucky with timing but £35ish isn't unusual.  I will need to renumber them but that won't be expensive.

That's a great price Teaky- where do you manage to get them for 25 quid?

[teaky]

That's a great price Teaky- where do you manage to get them for 25 quid?

I just happened to look at Amazon at the right moment I think.  I posted something on here under the Bargain Hunters thread.  When I looked later the same day they were up to £34ish.  I don't know if there were only a limited number at £25 to draw people in or if I was just lucky.  The seller was Amazon itself so if there was a pricing error then I'm sure they can handle the hit!

 

I have managed to purchase a few matchboard-sided standard K-types for £25 or less (incl. p+p) off eBay.  Again, it is a matter of timing and being patient enough to let several auctions go once the price rises.

 

I've put together a seven car rake in the style of the Yorkshire Pullman.  Some cars will need to be renumbered or renamed and seven cars isn't the correct length I know.  I fancied a mixed rake togo behind an ex-GN atlantic, so I have one 12-wheeled brake, 3 standard K-types and 3 all-steel K-types.

[Mark Hamlin]

I just happened to look at Amazon at the right moment I think.  I posted something on here under the Bargain Hunters thread.  When I looked later the same day they were up to £34ish.  I don't know if there were only a limited number at £25 to draw people in or if I was just lucky.  The seller was Amazon itself so if there was a pricing error then I'm sure they can handle the hit!

 

I have managed to purchase a few matchboard-sided standard K-types for £25 or less (incl. p+p) off eBay.  Again, it is a matter of timing and being patient enough to let several auctions go once the price rises.

 

I've put together a seven car rake in the style of the Yorkshire Pullman.  Some cars will need to be renumbered or renamed and seven cars isn't the correct length I know.  I fancied a mixed rake togo behind an ex-GN atlantic, so I have one 12-wheeled brake, 3 standard K-types and 3 all-steel K-types.

Thank Teaky. I will pay more attention to both Amazon and the bargain thread from now on!

[davidw]

New release of 1928 Pullman is apreparing. Dark grey roofs,late 50's early 60's insignia. Two brake 3rds/2nds available. And 3 further cars available next month. Strange the kitchen third is absent from the line up....

Edited August 17, 2016 by davidw

[grob1234]

New release of 1928 Pullman is apreparing. Dark grey roofs,late 50's early 60's insignia. Two brake 3rds/2nds available. And 3 further cars available next month. Strange the kitchen third is absent from the line up....

Would a repaint of the roof pre date the carriages to 1930s style? I know the curtains are wrong on the new ones for the earlier livery too? If that's the case I could live with incorrect curtains... Or are additional changes required?

Edited August 17, 2016 by grob1234

[davidw]

Would a repaint of the roof pre date the carriages to 1930s style? I know the curtains are wrong on the new ones for the earlier livery too? If that's the case I could live with incorrect curtains... Or are additional changes required?

 

I believe the  Pullman crest is different, and on the third class cars, the 1930's vehicles are labeled "Third Class No. xx"  on these versions they are labeled "Car No xx"

Edited August 17, 2016 by davidw

[MikeParkin65]

I believe the  Pullman crest is different, and on the third class cars, the 1930's vehicles are labeled "Third Class No. xx"  on these versions they are labeled "Car No xx"

Forgive my lack of knowledge but are these suitable for use with the Met-Camms?