DJM End of year report 2014

[Loconuts]

I am sure Dave is acutely aware of that as he needs a quick return on a not inconsiderable and brave investment.

Doubters ? We did have one of those here until quite recently. He is now ploughing his own furrow.

Ian, that doubter has been ploughing his own furrow for at least 5 decades and produces a range of freight vehicles that no RTR manufacturer could ever afford to keep up.  Plus all the other small detail parts and the support he gives to other small traders in supplying them with castings.

Where is Dave Jones track record?  I am not knocking him as it does take time to bring products to market that are correct, especially if you are using a manufacturer on the other side of the world with a language difference and no knowledge of our Railways.  But I wonder if Dave Jones will be going in 5 decades time.

[DJM Dave]

Ian, that doubter has been ploughing his own furrow for at least 5 decades and produces a range of freight vehicles that no RTR manufacturer could ever afford to keep up.  Plus all the other small detail parts and the support he gives to other small traders in supplying them with castings.

Where is Dave Jones track record?  I am not knocking him as it does take time to bring products to market that are correct, especially if you are using a manufacturer on the other side of the world with a language difference and no knowledge of our Railways.  But I wonder if Dave Jones will be going in 5 decades time.

That would make me 100 years old! No thanks as I'd like to retire at some point. :-)

[Ian Hargrave]

Ian, that doubter has been ploughing his own furrow for at least 5 decades and produces a range of freight vehicles that no RTR manufacturer could ever afford to keep up.  Plus all the other small detail parts and the support he gives to other small traders in supplying them with castings.

Where is Dave Jones track record?  I am not knocking him as it does take time to bring products to market that are correct, especially if you are using a manufacturer on the other side of the world with a language difference and no knowledge of our Railways.  But I wonder if Dave Jones will be going in 5 decades time.

He also caused a great deal of mischief and unnecessary upset..We now have a new manufacturer of R T R models .Although there are protestations of ,as you put it ,"not knocking ",why cast doubts on him when we have already seen the reality of the product and we have assurance that the first batches are on their way ? Dave Jones "track record" began a few years back when he was still at Dapol and was responsible with assistance from members of this forum for the production of models of Classes 22 and 52. In addition,would a retailer with the pedigree of Kernow put their faith in him if they had any doubts ? Would Hattons be enthusiastically marketing their own brand products for which he has the commission ?

Unfortunately we seem to be Doubting Thomases,who require to see the wounds in the flesh first. ....or Luddites. Are we waiting for the guy to fail. Or what ?

Let's have some enthusiasm please .....not suspicion.

[Arthur]

 

Perhaps more pertinently, will DJ ever appear on here banging on, ad nauseum, about faults in the models produced by others?

[New Haven Neil]

A little OT, but Oxford are sort of in the same boat.  Some doubt their ability to produce a railway product, but the rep informed me in person they have produced them for other countries.  So we haven't seen them here, just road vehicles, but no-one is going out of their way to doubt their ability to deliver, so why should we doubt Dave when he has delivered proven product with his previous employers.

 

Aside:  I wonder if Dave's factory connection in China is Oxford's factory.....they have their own. Just a sneaky thought.

[jjb1970]

Perhaps more pertinently, will DJ ever appear on here banging on, ad nauseum, about faults in the models produced by others?

 

If it is the person I believe it is then this is what I think irritated many. There is no doubt he was knowledgeable and knew his subject but seizing on faults in other companies models and then going to town on them were a bit of a turn off. Especially when many were already aware of said faults but took a reasonable decision that the models were still a good representation of the prototype and well priced. And the constant exhortations to go down the kit route ignored the point that many have neither the inclination nor skills to build, paint and decal a kit to anything like the standard of even an average RTR model. That is not to say I wouldn't encourage people to have a go but realistically not that many modellers develop the proficiency to match the standard of finish of RTR.

[The Stationmaster]

Ian, that doubter has been ploughing his own furrow for at least 5 decades and produces a range of freight vehicles that no RTR manufacturer could ever afford to keep up.  Plus all the other small detail parts and the support he gives to other small traders in supplying them with castings.

Where is Dave Jones track record?  I am not knocking him as it does take time to bring products to market that are correct, especially if you are using a manufacturer on the other side of the world with a language difference and no knowledge of our Railways.  But I wonder if Dave Jones will be going in 5 decades time.

I don't want to turn this into a slanging match but surely we are quite aware of Dave Jones' track record - I have got a Kernow Well Tank, which runs very nicely thank and it was produced to Kernow's spec by DJ when he was in the employ of Dapol.  I have also got some of the diesels mentioned by Ian - good design, and that's what the bloke does.  I've seen the Kernow O2 - good design, looks good close up but then I'm not an expert on the Southern but if someone can manage a commissioner's contract with the factory to the point of bringing to production after starting from the very beginning it suggest to me they have a degree of competence in what they are doing and we know they've done it before = 'a track record"; that's where it is.

 

If people haven't noticed perhaps they should both go out and look for it on the shelves of various model railway retailers?  Now let's stop knocking the bloke and give him a chance to carry on showing that he can achieve - if he then fails to deiiver we're in a different ball game, but that might possibly be 'then' and this is 'now'.  And let's also stop knocking by inference those who have commissioned DJM to manage their factory liaison and input technical design - various people have put a lot of money behind their faith in DJM to deliver, which is more than those knocking the bloke have done.

[Ian Hargrave]

Well said.Mike....and it needs saying.

[Pyewipe Jct]

I think this thread was originally about some new outfit called DJM - it would be a REAL shame if it ended up tainted by ABS even in absentia...

Good luck Dave, definitely exciting times ahead. The proof of the pudding is clearly in the eating, but obviously in this fast-food age, some folks forget how long it takes to prepare a proper meal from scratch

 

[Legend]

That would make me 100 years old! No thanks as I'd like to retire at some point. :-)

 

Just as you are finally about to produce that Caley 812...............  Suspect it'll be too late for me then as well!

[TheSignalEngineer]

If it is the person I believe it is then this is what I think irritated many. There is no doubt he was knowledgeable and knew his subject but seizing on faults in other companies models and then going to town on them were a bit of a turn off. Especially when many were already aware of said faults but took a reasonable decision that the models were still a good representation of the prototype and well priced. And the constant exhortations to go down the kit route ignored the point that many have neither the inclination nor skills to build, paint and decal a kit to anything like the standard of even an average RTR model. That is not to say I wouldn't encourage people to have a go but realistically not that many modellers develop the proficiency to match the standard of finish of RTR.

Every project is limited by "selling" price, required delivery date and achieving the desired result. Inevitably it ends up as a compromise due to what the customer is prepared to pay and when he wants it. If those are fixed then specification suffers. In my experience getting the last 5% of functionallity usually causes a hyperbolic rise in cost and extension to timescale. 

 

Hopefully Dave will produce a product which is acceptable to the vast majority of punters at a price they are willing to pay, but don't forget that he also has to balance this against what he can spend before he gets a return.

[Loconuts]

I don't want to turn this into a slanging match but surely we are quite aware of Dave Jones' track record - I have got a Kernow Well Tank, which runs very nicely thank and it was produced to Kernow's spec by DJ when he was in the employ of Dapol.  I have also got some of the diesels mentioned by Ian - good design, and that's what the bloke does.  I've seen the Kernow O2 - good design, looks good close up but then I'm not an expert on the Southern but if someone can manage a commissioner's contract with the factory to the point of bringing to production after starting from the very beginning it suggest to me they have a degree of competence in what they are doing and we know they've done it before = 'a track record"; that's where it is.

 

If people haven't noticed perhaps they should both go out and look for it on the shelves of various model railway retailers?  Now let's stop knocking the bloke and give him a chance to carry on showing that he can achieve - if he then fails to deiiver we're in a different ball game, but that might possibly be 'then' and this is 'now'.  And let's also stop knocking by inference those who have commissioned DJM to manage their factory liaison and input technical design - various people have put a lot of money behind their faith in DJM to deliver, which is more than those knocking the bloke have done.

Do anyone on the RMWeb read the correspondence from other members, I think not from the uninformed replies received.

 

First of all I was not having a go at Dave Jones, it his money and others money that is being invested in projects, not mine or Adrians or yours.  If the proposed items announced by DJM sell well all to his credit.

 

I was having a go at Ian, who like many others on this site cannot or will not criticized a fault on a model.  Andy York has done just that himself with the Dapol 08 which I feel was right to do and he has not been ostracised for it.   This has allowed the manufacturer to take steps to correct the error.

 

The truth with Adrian is that he wanted to purchase the models he criticized and would like them to be up to his standard.  I know he has sent one Dapol model back that Dave Jones was involved in.

 

He like myself do not want to see standards dumbed down just because of price as many before DJ, raised the standard of models to the Pendon Standard over the years, actually Adrian has a number of his kits on Pendon, that speaks volumes.  How many DJM models are on Pendon?

 

When Adrians kits and bits disappear into the black hole of Poole on his retirement there will be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth.  

[Ryde-on-time]

 

The truth with Adrian is that he wanted to purchase the models he criticized and would like them to be up to his standard.

 

Wrong. He criticised the FTG spa wagon in which he had no interest. The timing of the criticism as the boat docked with the completed models shows just what a sad bitter twisted individual Adirian is

[Ian Hargrave]

Do anyone on the RMWeb read the correspondence from other members, I think not from the uninformed replies received.

 

First of all I was not having a go at Dave Jones, it his money and others money that is being invested in projects, not mine or Adrians or yours.  If the proposed items announced by DJM sell well all to his credit.

 

I was having a go at Ian, who like many others on this site cannot or will not criticized a fault on a model.  Andy York has done just that himself with the Dapol 08 which I feel was right to do and he has not been ostracised for it.   This has allowed the manufacturer to take steps to correct the error.

 

The truth with Adrian is that he wanted to purchase the models he criticized and would like them to be up to his standard.  I know he has se

nt one Dapol model back that Dave Jones was involved in.

 

He like myself do not want to see standards dumbed down just because of price as many before DJ, raised the standard of models to the Pendon Standard over the years, actually Adrian has a number of his kits on Pendon, that speaks volumes.  How many DJM models are on Pendon?

 

When kits and bits disappear into the black hole of Poole on his retirement there will be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

Do anyone on the RMWeb read the correspondence from other members, I think not from the uninformed replies received.

 

First of all I was not having a go at Dave Jones, it his money and others money that is being invested in projects, not mine or Adrians or yours.  If the proposed items announced by DJM sell well all to his credit.

 

I was having a go at Ian, who like many others on this site cannot or will not criticized a fault on a model.  Andy York has done just that himself with the Dapol 08 which I feel was right to do and he has not been ostracised for it.   This has allowed the manufacturer to take steps to correct the error.

 

The truth with Adrian is that he wanted to purchase the models he criticized and would like them to be up to his standard.  I know he has sent one Dapol model back that Dave Jones was involved in.

 

He like myself do not want to see standards dumbed down just because of price as many before DJ, raised the standard of models to the Pendon Standard over the years, actually Adrian has a number of his kits on Pendon, that speaks volumes.  How many DJM models are on Pendon?

 

When Adrians kits and bits disappear into the black hole of Poole on his retirement there will be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

Since when has it been the aim of members of this forum to "have a go " at other members ? You do yourself no favours at all with such turn of phrase. You might like to reconsider that and the statement that I and others ,like some Pontius Pilate character,find no fault at all with models or that members do not correctly read through the postings of others.These are wild and baseless assertions.

[Rob F]

"Have a go" = "Disagree with" in this context, even I can see that.

 

If we have to sanitise our language on this forum to such an extent as to avoid the remote possibility of causing some perceived minor offence then we might as well all give up. Sadly, on this and a number of other threads, that seems to be the way we are going.

 

The only person on here who it has been open season on recently has been adrianbs, and he is not now able to speak for himself.

 

ROB

[Ian Hargrave]

"Have a go" = "Disagree with" in this context, even I can see that.

 

If we have to sanitise our language on this forum to such an extent as to avoid the remote possibility of causing some perceived minor offence then we might as well all give up. Sadly, on this and a number of other threads, that seems to be the way we are going.

 

The only person on here who it has been open season on recently has been adrianbs, and he is not now able to speak for himself.

 

ROB

A self inflicted wound.Good manners and decency cost nothing. Neither does a degree of self restraint.Something of which the late lamented gent coud have used a little himself whatever his other talents may be.

[Rob F]

I cannot disagree about manners and decency.

 

However, despite Adrian's brusque style, he was incredibly knowledgeable and the forum was the richer for it. Some people just needed slightly thicker skins and the ability not to leap to some form of communal offence when some of the sacred cows around here were questioned.

 

ROB

[Mod4]

Please can we keep to on topic rather than discuss past members of the forum, many thanks.

[Hippo]

Good luck with 2015 dave, I've had an Rmweb limited edition Hunslet on order for a while now, and having seen the Hattons vid can't wait to finally get hold of it.

 

Owen

[mikeharvey22]

Thanks for the comprehensive update Dave. Look forward to the end of Autumn term report in December 2015. I have just read your interview in the February 2015 BRM which seems to reinforce the points made in message #1 above.

 

By the way the N Pendolino Kickstarter has gone over 50% of the required funds today. Still a long haul over the next 16 days.

[DJM Dave]

How far behind are the O gauge J94 and class 23 models?

Hi mate,

 

The O gauge items are last in the queue behind the first models announced, purely on cost for tooling, and financial returns from the other projects.

Cheers

Dave

[7013]

Thanks Dave for a thorough rundown of the year. If you do want to do a ' small' show in September you will always be welcome at the Banbury show.

[Hector]

Wrong. He criticised the FTG spa wagon in which he had no interest. The timing of the criticism as the boat docked with the completed models shows just what a sad bitter twisted individual Adirian is

A rather unpleasent post which was reported to the Mods yesterday. Nothing has been done, so is it the case that verbal abuse of an individual who is not in a positon to reply is now acceptable on this forum, even though to me it probably breaks at least two of the forum rules.

 

H

[Roy L S]

Gents

 

I come back to this thread occasionally as I have found both Dave's original post and people's thoughts of interest.

 

In my opinion Dave is amply qualified to make a success of DJM and for us it means we benefit from more choice and improvements in quality that will surely keep the other players in the market "honest" and not resting on their laurels?

 

I am disappointed that so many of the recent comments appear to have more to do with the opinions (ant theirs of him) of a former member of the Forum and creating a lot of unnecessary bad feeling. I would really like to read people's thoughts about Dave's progress and future plans, I am not in the least bit interested in "spats" concerning the said former member.

 

I  am pretty sure I can't be the only one??

 

Roy

[Ian Hargrave]

A rather unpleasent post which was reported to the Mods yesterday. Nothing has been done, so is it the case that verbal abuse of an individual who is not in a positon to reply is now acceptable on this forum, even though to me it probably breaks at least two of the forum rules.

 

H

Have you read Mod 4's Post 45 ? I think that covers the issue.I too,have reported posts about which nothing has been done on several occasions and I must accept that because it is their decision and not mine.So must you.We cannot automatically assume that every grievance will be addressed to our personal satisfaction.It is possible that we may be wrong.