Kirkby Luneside

[jukebox]

In fact, looking again - and measuring - the last photo in post # 2585, the ratio of maximum tank width to height is 3.3.

 

That would correspond to 5 tank panels of 4' and 2 vertically of 3' - so your 4' x 3' plate size recollection is correct in this instance.

 

So the water tank here is around 20' x 12' x 6'.

 

Jeff

 

 

I was just going to say Jeff, I suspect from your posted photos that they are the 4x3 Midland, not 4x4 Braithwaite versions, because the panels in the photos aren't square (again, not anal about this - just that I've been doing my own research, and need the opposite of what you do!)

[67A]

Completely logical Mr Spock! ............erm Jeff, all we need to know now is the properties of the supporting structure e.g. girder dimensions etc. Well 12,000 gallons will take some holding up, will plastruct suffice.

 

[Physicsman]

Completely logical Mr Spock! ............erm Jeff, all we need to know now is the properties of the supporting structure e.g. girder dimensions etc. Well 12,000 gallons will take some holding up, will plastruct suffice.

 

 

As Mr Spock might say: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few - or the one".... So the water tower will have to be strong enough to hold the 12 tonnes of water (and the steel itself) in order to serve all the millions (!) of passengers going through KL/KS.

 

So, plastruct to the rescue....?!!? Well, it'll probably be plastruct - or maybe lengths of 1/2" x 1/2" softwood covered in plastikard.

 

I need to do some sketches and guestimates, then order in what I need.

 

Jeff   

[Jason T]

As the tank panels are etched brass, have you thought about doing all the steelwork in brass? It'll be one solid structure.

 

Which reminds me, you're going to be needing a scratch brush, decent solder (I would use 145 and 179 degree) and brass flux as a minimum. Scratch brushes are essential for cleaning the brass before soldering and also for tidying up afterwards, and will introduce you to the joys of fibreglass fibres embedded in your fingertips (something I've suffered from a lot recently whilst building the 48DS kit - all soldering now completed )

 

I'd be giving Eileens Emporium or Hobby Holidays a shout as both stock everything you will need. I tend to use Hobby Holidays nowadays, especially at exhibitions.

[Mrkirtley800]

Of course, Jeff, I did the calculation in my head, so took liberties with the numbers. It took me a while to do it, I am a bit slow these days. When I was still working I could tell the approximate volume by merely looking at the tank.

During WW2 there was a large water tank stood on the ground, near where I lived in Leeds. I used to pass it on my way to school and could just see over the side. Being about 9 years old, the height of the panels would be possibly 4'. They were called static water tanks and used by the fire brigade if the water mains had been damaged. The contents got pretty mucky after a year or two.

Derek

[Mrkirtley800]

Incidentally, I used the figure of 6.5 gallons per cubic foot, which is close enough, and a gallon weighs 10 pounds.

Derek

Edited April 29, 2016 by Mrkirtley800

[Mrkirtley800]

Just seen the weather forecast on the tele, and snow has fallen in Bingley. Wonder if Jason has got his sledge out.

Derek

[Jason T]

It was snowing when I left at 6:45 and 1 degree, and most of the M65 was down to one lane with snow in the other(s). It's sunny and warm(er) in Chester.....

[Physicsman]

Incidentally, I used the figure of 6.5 gallons per cubic foot, which is close enough, and a gallon weighs 10 pounds.

Derek

 

I love all these conversion factors and 6.5 gallons per cubic foot is a new one to me. Pretty good estimate as well.

 

I've now made a set of estimates - I can't call them measurements as the data is too woolly - on the photos at my disposal. It looks like the tank is 20' x 12' x 6', sat on a metal base about a foot thick. That, in turn, is sat on cross-joists 15" tall by a foot wide. The support structure, which I assume is made of steel (bearing in mind the load it's carrying), is about 16' tall, with vertical struts of width 1'.

 

At least it's progress on yesterday! Thanks Derek.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

As the tank panels are etched brass, have you thought about doing all the steelwork in brass? It'll be one solid structure.

 

Which reminds me, you're going to be needing a scratch brush, decent solder (I would use 145 and 179 degree) and brass flux as a minimum. Scratch brushes are essential for cleaning the brass before soldering and also for tidying up afterwards, and will introduce you to the joys of fibreglass fibres embedded in your fingertips (something I've suffered from a lot recently whilst building the 48DS kit - all soldering now completed )

 

I'd be giving Eileens Emporium or Hobby Holidays a shout as both stock everything you will need. I tend to use Hobby Holidays nowadays, especially at exhibitions.

 

It'll be something new to try! Can I use an existing soldering iron for this?

 

I don't know when I'll get round to building the thing. To be honest, having looked up "your" plastikard rivets, it'd be just as easy to build it in plastic. I'll pass on the steel - whatever base I build will be the basic structure (as on KSW) and strong enough. I imagined the thing would be a bit taller than it is: 25', so a mere 10cm on the layout.

 

Jeff

[jukebox]

Jeff- Iain at Camden Shed built a water tank using these panels - turned out it was a lot easier to make a frame using brass angle or channel, and solder that to the panels from behind...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52339-camden-shed/?p=890513

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52339-camden-shed/?p=2167980

[PeterBB]

Of course, Jeff, I did the calculation in my head, so took liberties with the numbers. It took me a while to do it, I am a bit slow these days. When I was still working I could tell the approximate volume by merely looking at the tank.

During WW2 there was a large water tank stood on the ground, near where I lived in Leeds. I used to pass it on my way to school and could just see over the side. Being about 9 years old, the height of the panels would be possibly 4'. They were called static water tanks and used by the fire brigade if the water mains had been damaged. The contents got pretty mucky after a year or two.

Derek

 

Apologies Jeff off topic.  I too remember these water tanks on the ground but in my case being higher than I was tall.  In my part of London we had a lot of buildings wiped out.

Peter

[Jason T]

Depends on the wattage if your iron mate. You want to get a fair bit of heat in there to get the solder flowing (which it will if it's clean and you use enough flux). A 40 watt iron should be spot on.

[Physicsman]

Jeff- Iain at Camden Shed built a water tank using these panels - turned out it was a lot easier to make a frame using brass angle or channel, and solder that to the panels from behind...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52339-camden-shed/?p=890513

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52339-camden-shed/?p=2167980

 

Thanks Scott - very useful.

 

I've just ordered 3 packs of brass Midland panels, so it looks as if I'll be doing some brass soldering to build the tank. We'll see how it goes - whenever it goes.

 

Jeff

[Anotheran]

I've just ordered 3 packs of brass Midland panels, so it looks as if I'll be doing some brass soldering to build the tank. We'll see how it goes - whenever it goes.

 

Do I detect a lack of confidence... with 16 to a pack you should only need two packs 

[Neilgue]

........ The support structure, which I assume is made of steel ........

 

Hi Jeff, I have been lurking here for ages and finally feel I have something constructive to say.

 

The support structure looks to be made of concrete, not steel. If the columns were steel, they would probably be tubular, not square. There are a few other features which suggest concrete rather than steel.

 

There is an excellent thread on the building of a water tower for Black Country Blues here. Not the same as yours, but there may be some points of interest for you. Pay particular attention to the way the tank is supported by the frame. There is a latticework of steel beams that direct the loads from the tank to the ground. Page 1 of the BCB thread has a good picture of a prototype tank. The tank sits on lots of little beams sitting on a few bigger beams which sit in turn on the support structure. The uniformly distributed load under the tank is directed into a small number of point loads on the support structure. Unfortunately, the BCB tank has it the wrong way around - the big beams sitting on the little ones, but it is probably only insufferable pedants like me who notice such things....

 

Keep up the good work, it's good to see someone actually doing something!

 

Cheers, Neil

[Physicsman]

Nice to hear from you Neil. I always think it's good when "lurkers" decide to chip in. I wouldn't call anyone an insufferable pedant unless they keep ranting on about specific details long after the event i relevant.

 

As for the tower, the supports do look to be concrete - and the rectangular cross section of the support columns lends itself to plastruct square tube construction. I now have the sets of brass panels - only ordered yesterday (!) - and I'll certainly look at the BCB thread. I think it's likely that the tower build will be delayed in preference to other things, but I'll have to build the thing eventually!

 

As for doing things, well, I was watching some trains going round a couple of hours ago, stood in one of the corner access points (the one near the goods shed). I really need to fit the rear baseboards in there, so I can complete the road/rear sidings. I also need to just grit my teeth and start the stone walls (if you look at the KL thread (eg. page 335) you'll see that this entails a large number of hours of fairly tedious - but rewarding - work).

 

Please continue to lurk, or join the crazy gang on here!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Do I detect a lack of confidence... with 16 to a pack you should only need two packs 

 

YES!

 

Never played with brass in my life.

 

I actually ordered 25 packs, but 3 makes it sound I'm more confident than I am!).....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... only joking. And the 3 packs arrived today - surprisingly miniature when you see the panels up close.

 

Jeff

[Donw]

As the tank panels are etched brass, have you thought about doing all the steelwork in brass? It'll be one solid structure.

 

Which reminds me, you're going to be needing a scratch brush, decent solder (I would use 145 and 179 degree) and brass flux as a minimum. Scratch brushes are essential for cleaning the brass before soldering and also for tidying up afterwards, and will introduce you to the joys of fibreglass fibres embedded in your fingertips (something I've suffered from a lot recently whilst building the 48DS kit - all soldering now completed )

 

I'd be giving Eileens Emporium or Hobby Holidays a shout as both stock everything you will need. I tend to use Hobby Holidays nowadays, especially at exhibitions.

 

I quite often use a Garryflex block rather than the scratch brush to remove the surface tarnish for soldering.

Don

[Andrew P]

As the tank panels are etched brass, have you thought about doing all the steelwork in brass? It'll be one solid structure.

 

Which reminds me, you're going to be needing a scratch brush, decent solder (I would use 145 and 179 degree) and brass flux as a minimum. Scratch brushes are essential for cleaning the brass before soldering and also for tidying up afterwards, and will introduce you to the joys of fibreglass fibres embedded in your fingertips (something I've suffered from a lot recently whilst building the 48DS kit - all soldering now completed )

 

I'd be giving Eileens Emporium or Hobby Holidays a shout as both stock everything you will need. I tend to use Hobby Holidays nowadays, especially at exhibitions.

 

YES!

 

Never played with brass in my life.

 

I actually ordered 25 packs, but 3 makes it sound I'm more confident than I am!).....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... only joking. And the 3 packs arrived today - surprisingly miniature when you see the panels up close.

 

Jeff

Won't the Hot Glue Gun do it then Jason? hahhah   :nono:              

[Chipster]

Hi Jeff

 

I'm still lurking as usual.

Talking of stone walls and I quote "I also need to just grit my teeth and start the stone walls" I spotted this feature whilst out walking the other day and immediately thought of KL2.

Ok, it wasn't S&C territory, but it's something different, at least I've never seen a stile like that before.

 

 

 

Keep up the excellent work.

 

Chip

[Physicsman]

Chip, lurking or not, you've provided me with some lovely pictures of a variety of walls and style over the last 3 years. The last pair of photos are interesting for the different way of crossing the wall. I'll also be using the one you dug out for me in the latter days of KL.

 

The photos also bring home to me the stone sizes I'm working with. I'm going to need to incorporate a larger proportion of smaller stones into my KL2 walls, which will reduce the speed of build even more. But if it takes months, does it matter? A bit at a time and better to make it look right than cobble together a load of cr*p!

 

More pics from the sunny Orton area when you can get them!?

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Won't the Hot Glue Gun do it then Jason? hahhah   :nono:              

 

Andy, many a true word spoken in jest. I have a scheme in mind that requires no soldering - no hot glue gun either, sorry - but will be as solid as would ever be needed.

 

Jeff

[jukebox]

Andy, many a true word spoken in jest. I have a scheme in mind that requires no soldering - no hot glue gun either, sorry - but will be as solid as would ever be needed.

 

Jeff

 

No soldering - to avoid picking up a soldering iron, Jeff's either going to get Jason to build it for him, or Evo-stick those panels to a lump of balsa: "solid as would ever be needed"...

[Physicsman]

No soldering - to avoid picking up a soldering iron, Jeff's either going to get Jason to build it for him, or Evo-stick those panels to a lump of balsa: "solid as would ever be needed"...

 

Scott, even from 8,000 miles away, you know me well!!

 

Now I await the torrent of "no, no, you CAN'T do that" from the solder officianados. 

 

And I neither confirmed or denied your suggested strategy (Plywood, btw, not balsa....)

 

Jeff