Books on Grouping?

[Waraqah]

Can anyone recommend any good introductions to the Grouping issue? I just realised that this is a major part of British history (in terms of social and political factors, industrial relations and labour law, etc) quite apart from the obvious effects on the railways themselves, that I know nothing about.

 

For example, what happened to shareholders in the constituent companies? Were shares converted into shares in the relevant Big 4 company, or were they just wiped out? And what about things like repainting/renumbering engines and stock? Did that start on 1st Jan 1923, or were people already working towards the handovers? And was it an 'overnight' change, or were engines, etc 'done' as and when they came in for planned maintenance?

 

Thanks in advance for any info and reading ideas.

 

      Waraqah

[kevinlms]

I don't know of any suitable books, but perhaps this Wikipedia page will get you started until better information comes along.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railways_Act_1921

 

Note, the railways had over a year to work towards grouping. Some railways such as the LNWR & L&YR actually amalgamated in 1921.

 

Some railway groupings coped better with the amalgamations than others.

The GWR became the 'greater' GWR, with everything more or less continuing as before, with decisions for smaller constituents being decided at Swindon.

 

In the case of the LMS, it was an amalgamation of companies that had totally different operating practices, especially the LNWR/L&YR & Midland elements. Some decisions were made quickly (numbering schemes & liveries for locos and locomotive construction in particular). The latter being somewhat of a disaster, as the old Midland Railway practice of running light & frequent services, didn't suit the LNWR/L&YR practice of loading up trains & running them hard. The Midland designed locos largely built until around 1930, were simply not up to the task.

[Waraqah]

I don't know of any suitable books, but perhaps this Wikipedia page will get you started until better information comes along.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railways_Act_1921

 

Note, the railways had over a year to work towards grouping. Some railways such as the LNWR & L&YR actually amalgamated in 1921.

 

Some railway groupings coped better with the amalgamations than others.

The GWR became the 'greater' GWR, with everything more or less continuing as before, with decisions for smaller constituents being decided at Swindon.

 

In the case of the LMS, it was an amalgamation of companies that had totally different operating practices, especially the LNWR/L&YR & Midland elements. Some decisions were made quickly (numbering schemes & liveries for locos and locomotive construction in particular). The latter being somewhat of a disaster, as the old Midland Railway practice of running light & frequent services, didn't suit the LNWR/L&YR practice of loading up trains & running them hard. The Midland designed locos largely built until around 1930, were simply not up to the task.

Hi Kevin,

 

 Thanks for the info. It seems a really interesting period, and one I've never really given any thought to before. I wonder if the powers-that-be even considered different management styles and practices like those you mention before taking what was a momentous decision.

 

 

  Waraqah

[Old Gringo]

Hi Waraqah,

 

Although it was an important event in the history of British railways, there does not appear to be many recent books devoted to the Grouping of 1923, which was the result of the Railways Act of 1921.

 

However, there is a page of information (p 197) in "The Oxford Companion of British Railway History" edited by Jack Simmons & Gordon Biddle, Oxford Publishing Co., 1997.  A book well worth acquiring as it is a useful starting point for a lot of British railway research.  Derek Aldcroft wrote the synopsis on page 197 and refers the reader to chapter 2 (pages 27 - 88) of his book, "British Railways in Transition", Macmillan, 1968, in which he discusses the period 1914 to 1939 in detail, including the Grouping.

 

Another more recent work that covers the Grouping is "Four Great Railways", by Michael Bonavia, David & Charles publishers, 1980, ISBN 0-7153-7482-2.  A good overview of the Grouping period. 

 

Hamilton Ellis also discusses the Grouping and some of its personalities in his chapter entitled 'War and change' (pages 299 - 316) in "British Railway History (vol.2) 1877 - 1947", George Allen & Unwin, 1959.  The following chapters (p317 - 391) outline the operations of the Big Four.

 

There are several contemporary works on the Grouping:

 

"The Railways Act 1921", by R. Prys Griffiths, Pitman, 1925 (pp72).

"The Railways Act 1921", by R.W. Royle, Manchester, 1924 (pp20) - not seen.

"Railway Re-organisation", by a Railway Officer, E.&F.N. Spon, 1919 (pp108) is, as the title suggests, a study in re-organisation and sets out the situation facing the railways immediately following WW1, whilst still under Government control and giving a personal viewpoint before the Railways Act.

"British Railways in Boom and Depression", by C. Douglas Campbell, King & Sons, London, 1932 (pp125) includes a section on the amalgamations of 1921 to 1923.

 

Several other contemporary books detail and discuss the railway rates to be applied and used following the amalgamation of the independent companies into the four Grouped concerns.  Plenty of dry and dusty figures in these works, which can be traced through "Ottley's Bibliography of Railway History".

 

I hope this helps towards your researches,

 

All the best,

 

John.

[Old Gringo]

After considering the paucity of information discovered on the subject, I had another look and found a few more titles that contain more details on the Grouping:

 

The first full length study of the origins and development of (modern) British Transport as a whole, "British Transport - An economic survey from 17C to 20C", by H.J. Dyos & D.H. Aldcroft, Leicester University Press, 1969 (pp474) contains a dispassionate view of the railway situation under wartime control and during the inter-war years in chapters 10 and 11.  This book also has a 38 page comprehensive bibliography of all the modes of transport - now dated, of course, but still of tremendous value to anyone looking for a good grounding in transport history.

 

Another book covering British transport history, with many sections on railways and another good bibliography, is, "The Transport Revolution from 1770", by Philip Bagwell, Batsford, London, 1974, (paperback 460p) ISBN 0-7134-1385-9. In chapter 9 (p236 - 293) British transport policy 1914 to 1939 is covered including the events leading up to the Railway Act and the subsequent Grouping.

 

Published twelve months later and concentrating on the period from WW1 is, "British Transport since 1914 - An economic history", by Derek Aldcroft, David & Charles, 1975 (336p), ISBN 0-7153-6878-8.  The first two chapters (p15 - 65) deal with wartime control through to inter-war trends and include the re-organisation of the railways and the 1921 Act.  Again this book has an extensive bibliography covering all forms of transport including the railways.

 

"Railway Policy between the wars", by Michael Bonavia, Manchester University Press, 1981 (156p) ISBN 0-7190-0826-3, follows on from his previous book, "Four Great Railways" and looks more closely at management, productivity, commercial policies, assets and innovation, etc.

 

Chapter 5, British Railways 1914 - 1945 (pages 69 - 84) of "Transport in Britain, from Canal Lock to Gridlock", by Philip Bagwell & Peter Lyth, Hambledon & London, 2002 (Paperback 272p) ISBN 1-85285-263-1, reworks some of Bagwell's earlier essay and contains a brief insight into some of the politics behind the Railways Act 1921.

 

As up to date as my library goes, pages 206 to 252 deal with the period from 1914 onwards in "Fire & Steam - A new history of the Railways in Britain", by Christian Wolmar, published by Atlantic, 2007 ISBN 978-1-84354-629-0.  There is also a more concise (70 plus titles) and up to date bibliography, however with one unusual omission, "The Lighted Flame", by Norman McKillop, Nelson, 1950 (A history of A.S.L.E.F.).

 

To round off this list; A good photographic album, which has a short essay on the Grouping is, "Railways between the wars", by H.C. Casserley, published by David & Charles, 1971 (128p) ISBN 0-7153-5294-6.  The essay is followed by a list of companies grouped into the Big Four, a brief diary of important and interesting events between the wars and then a selection of Henry Casserley's superb photographs taken between 1919 and 1939.

 

All the best,

 

John. 

[A Murphy]

For what it's worth and slightly off topic, H. J. Dyos, the historian mentioned at the top of John's second post as co-author with D. H. Aldcroft, was an influential social historian, still much quoted today, particularly for his ground-breaking work on displacement of population in London, as the railways, both mainline and metropolitan, cut swathes through old established working class areas of British cities. Very even handed and well worth getting hold of if you are interested:

 

Exploring the Urban Past, Essays in Urban History, Cambridge university press, 1982

 

Cheers,

 

Alastair M

[Steamport Southport]

The History Of The LMS (OS Nock), History Of The LNER (Michael Bonavia) and History Of The Great Western Railway (Peter Semmens) published by George Allen And Unwin have quite a bit on the grouping and organisation. They were published in three parts with the first part of each being from 1923 until about 1930. Quite commonly available from second hand bookshops, ebay, etc. I don't think they got around to publishing the Southern edition, I've never seen a copy if they did.

 

 

Jason

[olivegreen]

The History Of The LMS (OS Nock), History Of The LNER (Michael Bonavia) and History Of The Great Western Railway (Peter Semmens) published by George Allen And Unwin have quite a bit on the grouping and organisation. They were published in three parts with the first part of each being from 1923 until about 1930. Quite commonly available from second hand bookshops, ebay, etc. I don't think they got around to publishing the Southern edition, I've never seen a copy if they did.

 

 

Jason

For the Southern, I would go initially to Dendy Marshall's 'History of the Southern Railway' - but it is years since I read it (I don't have a copy) and I can't remember if there is much in it on what led to the grouping.

[asmay2002]

Can anyone recommend any good introductions to the Grouping issue? I just realised that this is a major part of British history (in terms of social and political factors, industrial relations and labour law, etc) quite apart from the obvious effects on the railways themselves, that I know nothing about.

 

For example, what happened to shareholders in the constituent companies? Were shares converted into shares in the relevant Big 4 company, or were they just wiped out? And what about things like repainting/renumbering engines and stock? Did that start on 1st Jan 1923, or were people already working towards the handovers? And was it an 'overnight' change, or were engines, etc 'done' as and when they came in for planned maintenance?

 

Thanks in advance for any info and reading ideas.

 

      Waraqah

 

There have been several good articles on this period in "BACKTRACK" magazine explaining what happened to the shares, etc. (Generally the shareholders got shares in the new companies) .

 

Nothing regarding the stock was done overnight.  It would have been logistically impossible.  It didn't even all happen on 1st Jan 1923 either.  There were some amalgamations before that date and some after (the Caledonian didn't become part of the LMS until 1924 for example). 

 

There are also many myths, conspiracy theories and prejudices which are completely without foundation.  One or two of which have already appeared in this thread.

[Jim Martin]

For what it's worth and slightly off topic, H. J. Dyos, the historian mentioned at the top of John's second post as co-author with D. H. Aldcroft, was an influential social historian, still much quoted today, particularly for his ground-breaking work on displacement of population in London, as the railways, both mainline and metropolitan, cut swathes through old established working class areas of British cities. Very even handed and well worth getting hold of if you are interested:

 

Exploring the Urban Past, Essays in Urban History, Cambridge university press, 1982

 

Cheers,

 

Alastair M

I was going to post something similar until I scrolled down and found your post. When I went to university in the 80s, Dyos was the preeminent figure in urban history in England. I arrived at university expecting to specialise in the history of the medieval papacy, but while I was there I became far more interested in the growth of big cities in the 19th century. I read several of Dyos' books back then but I haven't seen one for years. I ought to seek one out.

 

Jim

[The Stationmaster]

One interesting point - which affected shareholders directly - was the difference between 'takeover' and amalgamation as the differeent methods of bringing companies into the new grouped company affected their subsequent shareholding in the new company.  It can also be important to understand the role of seniority in appointments within the new organisation as in many (?all) cases senior jobs at headquarters level could be decided by seniority rather than anything else, particularly where amalgamations were involved.

[Old Gringo]

As 'Olivegreen' says in post 8, "The History of the Southern Railway" by C.F. Dendy Marshall, (2. vols., 1963) reprinted as a combined volume (556p) by Ian Allan, 1968, ISBN 7110-0059-X, is the best single source for information of the constituent independent companies (Early railways, LSWR, LBSCR, SECR) and the combined Grouped 'Southern' conglomerate. 

 

Although not much on the lead up to the Railways Act of 1921, all the details of the wartime services of each constituent company are included and from page 391 onwards, the history of the Grouped Southern Railway begins, with a host of facts and figures.

[runs as required]

I agree with the earlier posts about Christian Wolmar’s writing  - you can visit his web site here:

http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk

 

It has always intrigued me how close the railways came to being Nationalised at the end of WWI – even Winston Churchill advocated state control. But they had of course been directed as one entity during the war, being run into the ground in the process.

 

The key personality in this process seems to have been Sir Eric Geddes who as General Manager of the North Eastern Railway at the start of the Great War organised and directed transport during the war, ending up as First Lord of the Admiralty (see link) .

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MUW8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=sir+eric+geddes+North+Eastern+Railway&source=bl&ots=GvE4uGU0Ds&sig=KH9jVMzD7cX2sx15TbEcLBah3ws&hl=en&sa=X&ei=f_u7VI_uG4nmarb2gMAG&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=sir%20eric%20geddes%20North%20Eastern%20Railway&f=false

A Conservative politician, Geddes became the first Minister of Transport and bulldozed through the Railways Act of 1921. There was originally to be a separate Scottish Railway company and more English Groupings.

Geddes remained a Director of the NER and this vested interest, it is said, became the weakness of the LNER as the once hugely profitable NER network’s coal traffic collapsed from the mid 1920s leaving the LNER the poorest of the Big Four.

 

"Back Track" railway history magazine has had some interesting articles on the managerial and financial ramifications of the Grouping – in August 2013  in “Was the LMS too big?” Peter Tatlow discussed an alternative scenario.

http://www.pendragonpublishing.co.uk/html/25-year_index.html

 

dh

[pete_mcfarlane]

There are also many myths, conspiracy theories and prejudices which are completely without foundation.  One or two of which have already appeared in this thread.

I do think a lot of non-academic railway literature presents the grouping (and nationalisation) as things that just inevitably happened, which clearly wasn't the case.

[Waraqah]

Hi Guys,

 

 Thanks to everyone for the (sudden splurge ) of posts. It seems there is quite a bit of literature on the subject if you know where to look. It's off to Amazon & eBay for me, it seems, and then cap in hand to Mrs W... Please dear. it's not that expensive!

 

As someone pointed out above, I guessed it would have been a logistical nightmare to get all the newly acquired stock reliveried 'overnight', so I suppose the situation must have been something like the immediate post-nationalisation phase, with engines and carriages running together in all sorts of colours. Although, from following a few of the modelling threads here, I can see that this would always have been the case with inter-regional traffic, another aspect of railway operations that, having grown up in the Br blue era, I hadn't given a lot of thought to.

 

   Waraqah

[Steamport Southport]

I'll have a look for that Dendy Marshall 'The History Of The Southern Railway' book. Seems to be right down my street.

 

Thanks everyone for the recommended titles.

 

 

 

Jason

[TheQ]

Hi Guys,

 

 Thanks to everyone for the (sudden splurge ) of posts. It seems there is quite a bit of literature on the subject if you know where to look. It's off to Amazon & eBay for me, it seems, and then cap in hand to Mrs W... Please dear. it's not that expensive!

 

As someone pointed out above, I guessed it would have been a logistical nightmare to get all the newly acquired stock reliveried 'overnight', so I suppose the situation must have been something like the immediate post-nationalisation phase, with engines and carriages running together in all sorts of colours. Although, from following a few of the modelling threads here, I can see that this would always have been the case with inter-regional traffic, another aspect of railway operations that, having grown up in the Br blue era, I hadn't given a lot of thought to.

 

   Waraqah

May I recommend ABEBOOKS as a source for old books, it's a site which collates many books shops around the country, World, and you only have to deal with Abe (like using Amazon.)

[Old Gringo]

In the O.P., Waraqah asks for books with information about the Grouping and in previous posts I've listed those that I have either seen, used, or suggested from the bibliographies of the subject.

 

I had resisted the temptation of adding further raw information on this most interesting period of railway history as the journey of research can sometimes 'colour' the responses given to historical questions (which are combinations of who, what, where, why, which, how and when?).  And this is especially so with questions regarding the turbulent history of the British railway system in the 20th Century.

 

However, the history of railways has fascinated me for most of my life and I am fortunate to have access to many of the sources mentioned above and therefore, for the record, I'll add a few more notes, following on from those quoted in post 13, by "runs as required":

 

"The key personality in this process seems to have been Sir Eric Geddes who as General Manager of the North Eastern Railway at the start of the Great War organised and directed transport during the war, ending up as First Lord of the Admiralty (see link) .  A Conservative politician, Geddes became the first Minister of Transport and bulldozed through the Railways Act of 1921."

 

Here's some extra facts regarding Sir Eric Geddes and the Railways Act: Eric Campbell Geddes (1875 - 1937) was one of the key personalities in the production of The Railways Act (1921) and he is often referred to as the 'architect' of the subsequent Act.  As the first Minister of Transport (in post 1919 to 1922), he was responsible for the new Ministry which drafted the Bill.

 

In the linked text from post 13; Keith Grieves suggests that, "as Lloyd George's leading trouble-shooter, Geddes organising abilities made no small contribution to the 1914 - 1918 War effort" and these actions later caused him to be the first choice for the new job of Minister of Transport.  Of interest, his brother, Sir Auckland Geddes (1879 - 1954) was the previous President of the Board of Trade, the department previously responsible for transport policies.

 

Consider Eric Geddes experience in more detail:  Grieves says, "Geddes rapid promotion and occupancy of the post of Deputy G.M. only seven years after joining the North Eastern Railway was a striking indication of his widely acknowledged managerial skills" (K.G. p8.)  This had no doubt allowed him to circulate within the corridors of power and attend the pre-war meetings of the Railway Executive Committee on behalf of his G.M. (A. Kaye-Butterworth, N.E.R. General Manager in post since 1906).  And in 1915, Eric Geddes was co-opted into the service of the State from his post of DEPUTY General Manager.

 

First, Geddes was appointed Deputy Director of Munitions - working directly for David Lloyd George.  After sorting out the 'supply crisis', he went to France from September 1916 as Director General Military Railways / Transportation - working directly for D.L.G. and Douglas Haig (from a base nick-named Geddesburg!) and where he sorted the supply situation from the Ports to the Front line.  For these two very successful actions, Eric Geddes was knighted, before he moved on to Naval problems, where he rose rapidly to First Lord of the Admiralty (July 1917), a member of the War Cabinet and became an M.P.

 

From the outbreak of the War in August 1914, the railways were under the control of the Railway Executive Committee under the chairmanship of Sir Herbert Walker (L.&S.W.R. G.M.).  The R.E.C. had been set up in 1912 and was composed of representatives from the largest of the independent railway companies, usually General Managers.  However, as noted earlier, Eric Geddes was the N.E.R. representative until the outbreak of War, when Kaye-Butterworth began to attend the meetings.

 

As WW1 drew to a close, the Government needed to reorganise Britain's transport (the larger share of which was controlled by the independent railway companies) and to fulfil commitments given before and during the conflict.  The war had revealed the country's total dependence on the railways and the new Ministry of Transport was created in August 1919 to sort out the 'Transport problem'.  State control of the network was extended until August 1921, giving Geddes a deadline of two years for a workable solution. 

 

And another useful book with information about the R.E.C., wartime control and its successor the Railway Advisory Panel is: 

"Sir Herbert Walker's Southern Railway", by Charles Klapper, 1973, Ian Allan (260pp) ISBN 0-7110-0478-1.

 

All the best,  John.