well filled baps The Sheep Chronicles. The adventures of a Sheep, the Works Forecat and the Works Apprentice, George.

[JustinDean]

3 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

There's another aesthetic with Rob's layout height approach that I don't think has been considered - sociability.

 

Low down railways mean everyone including the operator is looking down so you are less aware of the other people around you, but when you are all looking straight forward you are more likely to make eye contact with the operator and the other viewers.  Now knowing myself and not being a keen eye contact person, foreheads are great by the way, you'd think I'd be aghast at the idea of standing at such a layout but actually it was great and there was constant chatter around the layout.

 

 

A really good point well observed!

 

Jay

[37Oban]

Hi,

 

the debate about which height is best for an exhibition layout is an interesting one, and one to which, I think, there is no easy answer.

 

At exhibitions you can see children carting around step stools so they can get, at least some view, of a layout, but what about wheelchair, or motorised buggy, users?  Are they expected to stand up to view every layout, bearing in mind that the majority of their users probably cannot stand without discomfort?

 

Thinking about it, actually how many wheelchair users do you see at exhibitions?  In my experience it's very few, if any!  Is this because they have difficulties navigating around the exhibition or finding some-one to help them around, or it because the height of the exhibits is such they cannot actually see them so it's not worth the entrance fee?  

 

I am one of these diasbled people.  I now need a buggy to go around town shopping, although I can use a stick to help me walk some distances.  When, not if, I need a buggy full time then I'll no longer be able to visit shows because I won't be able to view some of the layouts.  That'll be sad day, as part of the exhibition experience is meeting and talking other people and traders.

 

As I said, it's an interesting, and difficult debate.  As for an acceptable solution, or solutions, I'm not sure there are any that don't involve costs.  Perhaps an area could be set aside for layouts at a height for kids and wheelchair users, or maybe, although, at the moment I can't see how this could be implemented, especially bearing in mind health & safery legislation, some sort of portable ramp/stage that could be positioned in front of the layout?  I honestly don't know.

 

There's another thing to consider.  Although I'm disabled I am not what one would call a disabled activist, although I can some times sympathise with them.  So, how long would be before one of these, who's a modeller, goes to an exhibition, can't see most of the exhibits and decides to be a complete axxx and sue the organisers?  You may think I'm being a bit of a scaremonger, but just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't happen.

 

Roja

[NHY 581]

As Jay says, the subject of layout height is a much debated  and emotive subject. There will be those for whom a high layout  works better than for others..........

 

 

 

I know and accept that the height I operate the layout at puts some attendees at a disadvantage ( or in the above example...potentially at an advantage. Moot point of course ) ......but.....whilst not ideal, I have my reasons. 

 

I 'design' ( an ambitious word to use ) the layouts to look into, not down on. So when planning ( another ambitious word ) and in that I mean plonking buildings, track, stock and locos on the dining table, I get down low to see the potential views etc. I then have a rough idea how the layout will look at a show. 

 

In addition, my layouts are enclosed, I cannot reach into the layouts from the rear or above due to the lighting used. Lighting is all important. There were a number of layouts at Stafford with poor or non existent lighting and they suffered for it. All that hard work that nobody could see.......

 

Then add in my own perhaps selfish needs.......I could not lean over a layout to operate it. Well, I could but not for long I suspect. A case in point. Currently, if I lower my head, as in to look down and then raise either hand/arm to uncouple etc, I get pins and needles in both that particular hand or arm. So bad at times, I drop what I'm holding. I did drop the controller at Stafford because of this. Generally though, when operating as per my elevated layouts, I do not have any issues. 

 

Add in the need to lean over a low set layout and my lower back ( which is definately getting worse ) plays up and ultimately  can sometimes go altogether, something which could cause real issues at a show.

 

Operating a layout for two days whilst standing is  tiring enough as it is,  without adding in any of the above. 

 

At Stafford, two chaps in wheelchairs approached the layout. One stood up at the barrier and had a good look and spent some time chatting. The other used a large screen mobile device on a selfie stick to view proceedings. Neither commented adversely. 

 

Going forward, I'm going to produce some handouts which may assist in such circumstances. 

 

Rob

[Captain Kernow]

I have much sympathy with those in wheelchairs or who otherwise prefer to look at a layout at a lower level, but I build my layouts high and that is for one simple reason - I am also tall and suffer from lower back problems. I've exhibited at shows where my back has been giving me problems and it's no joke either.

 

I build my layouts primarily for myself and my own amusement (who doesn't, really?) and any exhibition invitations are a bonus.

 

I honestly don't know what the answer is, not in practical terms of what physical measures can pragmatically be taken to accommodate both those who wish to view at high and low levels. Perhaps there isn't one?

 

[Gedward]

59 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

I 'design' ( an ambitious word to use ) the layouts to look into, not down on. So when planning ( another ambitious word ) and in that I mean plonking buildings, track, stock and locos on the dining table, I get down low to see the potential views etc. I then have a rough idea how the layout will look at a show. 

 

 

This is exactly where I am with Bodmin Moor. Designed to be viewed at eye level, inside an enclosed letterbox. And I suffer with similar back issues if bending down for too long.

 

In the past week I've settled into my new modelling room and I treated myself to a sit/stand desk. It's great to have the choice to nudge the table up or down and perfect for all my needs, whether painting or modelling.

 

[jollysmart]

7 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

At Stafford, two chaps in wheelchairs approached the layout. One stood up at the barrier and had a good look and spent some time chatting. The other used a large screen mobile device on a selfie stick to view proceedings. Neither commented adversely. 

 

 

Maybe an answer could be some kind of periscope which would  have a similar effect to the method used in Robs written example above, obviously with the danger of the top section having too much close access to the layout?

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by jollysmart

[37Oban]

8 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

As Jay says, the subject of layout height is a much debated  and emotive subject. There will be those for whom a high layout  works better than for others..........

 

 

I know and accept that the height I operate the layout at puts some attendees at a disadvantage ( or in the above example...potentially at an advantage. Moot point of course ) ......but.....whilst not ideal, I have my reasons. 

 

I 'design' ( an ambitious word to use ) the layouts to look into, not down on. So when planning ( another ambitious word ) and in that I mean plonking buildings, track, stock and locos on the dining table, I get down low to see the potential views etc. I then have a rough idea how the layout will look at a show. 

 

In addition, my layouts are enclosed, I cannot reach into the layouts from the rear or above due to the lighting used. Lighting is all important. There were a number of layouts at Stafford with poor or non existent lighting and they suffered for it. All that hard work that nobody could see.......

 

Then add in my own perhaps selfish needs.......I could not lean over a layout to operate it. Well, I could but not for long I suspect. A case in point. Currently, if I lower my head, as in to look down and then raise either hand/arm to uncouple etc, I get pins and needles in both that particular hand or arm. So bad at times, I drop what I'm holding. I did drop the controller at Stafford because of this. Generally though, when operating as per my elevated layouts, I do not have any issues. 

 

Add in the need to lean over a low set layout and my lower back ( which is definately getting worse ) plays up and ultimately  can sometimes go altogether, something which could cause real issues at a show.

 

Operating a layout for two days whilst standing is  tiring enough as it is,  without adding in any of the above. 

 

At Stafford, two chaps in wheelchairs approached the layout. One stood up at the barrier and had a good look and spent some time chatting. The other used a large screen mobile device on a selfie stick to view proceedings. Neither commented adversely. 

 

Going forward, I'm going to produce some handouts which may assist in such circumstances. 

 

Rob

Hi,

 

forgot about the operators having mobility issues, with their back and arms.  Apologies for that, an oversight on my part.

 

I like the idea of a device on a selfie stick, or a periscope, so that wheelchair users can see the layout!  For those not technologically minded perhaps a periscope could be provided at the show, or plans for a simple one provided on sites such as this so that the user can buld their own? 

 

I also like your idea for a flier.  Perhaps an additional way would be to add this information to posters and other advertisements for the exhibition, such as on here?

 

Roja

[adrianmc]

9 hours ago, 37Oban said:

I like the idea of a device on a selfie stick, or a periscope, so that wheelchair users can see the layout!  For those not technologically minded perhaps a periscope could be provided at the show, or plans for a simple one provided on sites such as this so that the user can build their own? 

 

 

At the Uckfield Model Railway Exhibition we have periscopes to borrow - in return for a small returnable deposit - for those who might benefit from them, including children and those in wheelchairs. It has also been known for a tall person with back problems and therefore cannot bend down very well to use one in reverse, to look down rather than up!

 

The periscopes in question are the Spyscope which gives a large viewing slot and corresponding mirrors. They are part of the equipment offered to members of the Chiltern Model Railway Association (CMRA) to help organisers of model railway exhibitions meet the requirements of the Disability Discrimination Acts by providing access to services with the provision of an auxiliary aid - i.e. a periscope. 

 

I know that several layout owners have purchased their own for use at shows which don't have them to borrow. A quick look on internet shows them to be be about £18 plus shipping.

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by adrianmc

[37Oban]

2 hours ago, adrianmc said:

 

At the Uckfield Model Railway Exhibition we have periscopes to borrow - in return for a small returnable deposit - for those who might benefit from them, including children and those in wheelchairs. It has also been known for a tall person with back problems and therefore cannot bend down very well to use one in reverse, to look down rather than up!

 

The periscopes in question are the Spyscope which gives a large viewing slot and corresponding mirrors. They are part of the equipment offered to members of the Chiltern Model Railway Association (CMRA) to help organisers of model railway exhibitions meet the requirements of the Disability Discrimination Acts by providing access to services with the provision of an auxiliary aid - i.e. a periscope. 

 

I know that several layout owners have purchased their own for use at shows which don't have them to borrow. A quick look on internet shows them to be be about £18 plus shipping.

 

 

 

Hi,

 

well, blow me down and call me Delilah!  One solution already out there!  An elegant solution, from, dare I say it, a progressive group!  Now you've posted this on here it there use should become more widespread!  A small fee to be able to borrow one of these is a small price to pay to be able to enjoy the layouts, and, if you visit several exhibitions each year then buying one makes sense!  The way things are going I shall soon have to buy one!

 

Many thanks for posting this!

 

Roja

[NHY 581]

Morning all, 

 

 

Not much to report from Chateau Sheep but hoping to make some progress with EWE this week. 

 

In other news, one for next year's diary. 

 

 

This is always a good show with some nice layouts in a nice venue. 

 

Rob.

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

Does this mean ewe'r going to inflate one of ewer layouts to 7mm, or a completely new 7mm layout?

 

 

[St Enodoc]

42 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

Morning all, 

 

 

Not much to report from Chateau Sheep but hoping to make some progress with EWE this week. 

 

In other news, one for next year's diary. 

 

 

This is always a good show with some nice layouts in a nice venue. 

 

Rob.

 

 

Presumably from the name younger folk from North Wales are especially welcome.

[NHY 581]

37 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Does this mean ewe'r going to inflate one of ewer layouts to 7mm, or a completely new 7mm layout?

 

 

 

Morning Snoops. 

 

The 7mm itch remains unscratched........and will do for the forseeable due to previously discussed ongoing space issues but one should never say never...........

 

Rob

 

 

[New Haven Neil]

53 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Morning Snoops. 

 

The 7mm itch remains unscratched........and will do for the forseeable due to previously discussed ongoing space issues but one should never say never...........

 

Rob

 

 

 

Come on in, you know you want to.....

 

 

....as well as the fact that the very reason this exists is all your fault!  You and your damn inspiration!

[Siberian Snooper]

4 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Does this mean ewe'r going to inflate one of ewer layouts to 7mm, or a completely new 7mm layout?

 

 

 

4 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Morning Snoops. 

 

The 7mm itch remains unscratched........and will do for the forseeable due to previously discussed ongoing space issues but one should never say never...........

 

Rob

 

 

 

I take then, that the trainset sorry layout will have a large magnifying glass placed in front of it, to allow the senior scale boys view it, at a size that they are used to viewing.

 

 

[ELTEL]

On 01/10/2023 at 22:09, jollysmart said:

 

 

Maybe an answer could be some kind of periscope which would  have a similar effect to the method used in Robs written example above, obviously with the danger of the top section having too much close access to the layout?

 

 

We do have periscopes available at the admission area for anyone to use for a small deposit, which is returned on the safe return of the periscope.

 

I will make sure next year we advertise them in the admission area.

[NHY 581]

Afternoon all, 

 

Well, quite a day as it turns out. 

 

Bleat has departed Chateau Sheep for pastures new and semi retirement. 

 

An approach at the Stafford show from a very nice gentleman has seen Bleat moving to it's spiritual home in Somerset. It wasn't my intention to sell but Tim persuaded me otherwise and deep down, I knew it was a good thing to do. 

 

Tim brought with him a rather nice little loco which forms part of the available stud for the Taunton Model Railway Group's Bath Green Park layout. I must say, it looked very much at home plonked on Bleat prior to it's dismantling and subsequent departure. 

 

 

 

 

Nicely constructed, the little S&DJR Sentinel ran very well ( high level gearbox methinks ). A lovely little loco. 

 

Whilst not the initial intention, it is possible that Bleat may emerge once more at an exhibition in the future but for now it will be enjoyed by Tim. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by NHY 581

[F-UnitMad]

"Tim", eh? That name narrows it down a bit. We all know a 'Tim', don't we... (in)famous in SWAG circles, and claims to hold the Rank of Captain.... 😉 🤔 😁

Models in EM, though, AFAIK.

 

Am I warm? 🤷‍♂️🤪

[Oldddudders]

29 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

"Tim", eh? That name narrows it down a bit. We all know a 'Tim', don't we... (in)famous in SWAG circles, and claims to hold the Rank of Captain.... 😉 🤔 😁

Models in EM, though, AFAIK.

 

Am I warm? 🤷‍♂️🤪

i wasn't sure that Tim was at Stafford, and he doesn't live in Zummerzet. 

[F-UnitMad]

21 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

i wasn't sure that Tim was at Stafford, and he doesn't live in Zummerzet. 

Ah. Freezing cold, then... 🙄🤯😳🤣

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

"Tim", eh? That name narrows it down a bit. We all know a 'Tim', don't we... (in)famous in SWAG circles, and claims to hold the Rank of Captain.... 😉 🤔 😁

Models in EM, though, AFAIK.

 

Am I warm? 🤷‍♂️🤪

Well, it wasn't me wot bought the layout, it was someone else, Guv'nor.

 

I was never in Stafford, guv (mores the pity), it was the others.

 

I don't model in EM either (OO and P4).

 

Apart from that, well done!! 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Captain Kernow

[NHY 581]

Morning all. 

 

So, yes, stage one of the redevelopment of the Room of Doom is acheived and the space occupied by Bleat and earmaked for the new layout is freed up. 

 

I'll continue to nibble away at it with a view to hopefully commencing things in early November. 

 

Main railway priority ( and quite urgent actually )  is a new lighting pelmet for Ewe as the usual set up went with Bleat. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[NHY 581]

Morning all, 

 

Project Rapier ( new fencing ) is all consuming at present. However, trees and stumps have been cleared, lots of soil removed and most of the post holes have been dug out to the required depth. One area left to clear but hostilities will re commence on Weds, after work today and tomorrow. 

 

However, the opportunity was taken to secure the required LED lighting tubes for Ewe yesterday so I'm hoping to progress the revised lighting arrangements this week. 

 

I'm also toying with the idea of revising the FIddly Area Reshuffling Table but this might well be a project too far ahead of Uckfield........... 

 

We shall see......

 

Rob

 

[Tortuga]

Hope you’re going to document the construction of the new lighting arrangement - I for one would be most interested to see how you go about it.

[NHY 581]

6 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Hope you’re going to document the construction of the new lighting arrangement - I for one would be most interested to see how you go about it.

 

 

Evening Nick. 

 

Yes, will do. I had hoped to get cracking on it tonight but became distracted. 

 

Fresh attempt tomorrow evening. 

 

Rob