Hornby BR Black 5 R3323

[robmcg]

Thanks, I will devise some way of holding the body in a softish-jawed vice, taking care not to clamp the cab window sheilds.

[robmcg]

The dome is hollow inside, but has a solid Sprue end from the under-centre of the dome that fits into the hole.

 

Try working away at that 'lump" a little on the inside with a small scalpel (or just twist/squeezing off with pliers a bit)

 

Looking at yours it looks like that Sprue is a bit longer penetrating into the body than mine (may be who ever cut it off when assembling left a longer shank) .. Trimming that a little will probably unseat it a bit.. Giving it good tap should be ok.. That Sprue is solid... Put the screwdriver on it first and then hit (not whack) it with hammer. (Don't hit the hammer on the screwdriver first.. You might miss the Sprue !).. I used a 2mm jewellers screwdriver as that was the approx size of the hole.. Just incase it followed the Sprue through the hole but it didn't. I wouldn't resort to drilling the Sprue, you need the Sprue to put it back in.

 

Good luck holding it in your hands, holding a precious body, close to my precious wotsits whilst my partner whacks it with a hammer isn't something I think I would trust my misses not to abuse the power of the moment !

 

It will come out though...all that's holding it is that Sprue.

 

Thanks, I will devise some way of holding the body in a softish-jawed vice, taking care not to clamp the cab window sheilds.

 

We did hit that sprue slightly off-centre, and repeatedly very hard, hard enough to by my judgement to drive a 3 inch nail into wood,  but looking at the fit of the dome to the boiler, it is very snug and perfect, unlike some of the pics such as Rails where it is by no means well attached.  And yes we held the metal drift, a metal-handle crosshead screwdriver actually, with a bluntish tip, right on the sprue, and jarred it severely without result.

 

I am a bit nervous about having to destroy the part in order to remove it, if there is a good dollop of cyano glue connecting the dome to the boiler.

 

photos of the 'fit' of my dome vs Rail dome to follow

 

edit, as promised the lighting is different but...

rails version

my version

 

 

[adb968008]

Here's mine (before)

[robmcg]

A set of Alan Gibson wheels for the bogie will do far more for the looks of this loco than turning the dome around will

 

Indeed.  It is interesting how certain aspects of Hornby's Black 5 affect different people's sensibilities, tender frames, front wheels, smokebox lower area....

 

I find the front wheels a bit basic but when front steps and cylinder drains are on I think they are ok. Of course I will photo-edit things if I have to...  

 

In the meantime I have to devise a way to get a suitable soft-jaw vice, having lost a complete and well-equipped workshop in the Feb 2011 earthquake...  most of the tools were saved but many were given away to volunteer firemen who looked after the now-sold house in the months after the quake, they being based just over the road.  Mostly it was tools for restoring old Jaguars and Minis, engines and auto gearboxes, but most things could be done there, good skylights and clean work space....  my current home though nice has no room for collections of motors!  Nor drawers full of every UNF nut and set screw ever invented and every obscure thread type as well...   sigh.

[adb968008]

Here's the vice I used, just a small mini one that hangs off the side of my controller table.. £6.99.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60MM-Revolving-Mini-Vice-Model-Clamp-Swivel-Bench-Table-Top-Workbench-Desk-Steel-/172078505250?hash=item2810ad9d22:g:LAYAAOSwoydWqIE1

Was recently using it to drill 1mm holes into the base of signal masts that had been broken off at the base, so I could insert a tube into and subsequently place the tube into my baseboard to hold up my signals... Got over 30 signals like this off ebay for a tenner !

[robmcg]

Interesting, the clamp-on mini vice, I have seen them before but didn't think of it, there are tabletop flat vices here and amazingly a full-weight engineers vice is only UKP22 with UKP4 delivery...  

 

Totally off the subject but a really good 10-speed bicycle was just bought for UKP140 and it has better engineering in it than my UKP1,800 wheelchair!

 

And people want models to be made in England again?   better shut up and have another cup of tea.  Now where is that Bahamas investment certificate?

[robmcg]

Further to my enjoyment of Hornby Black 5s, even with original front wheels, when the accessories in the pack are fitted the engine looks excellent in my opinion...  just bought a 2nd LMS 5000,  this one from Hattons for UKP62....eventual re-sale or a re-number or whatever. It was cheap because a bent front footrest was preventing it from going around corners without the front wheels derailing. 

 

edited a bit

 

lovely model!  And I will fix 44692' dome eventually!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dubloseven]

Hello all.   I've been thinking of adding one of these to my roster. Can anyone tell me if the gap between the loco and tender is adjustable?

Many thanks, Cliff.

[Ian Hargrave]

Hello all.   I've been thinking of adding one of these to my roster. Can anyone tell me if the gap between the loco and tender is adjustable?

Many thanks, Cliff.

As seen above in the days pre the electrical pin connection then no.Can't speak for the latest version.I imagine as it now comes with semi permanent coupling then it's possible.Much of course would depend on your minimum radius.For ease of running,I incline not to bother.Up to you.

[robmcg]

Well, I re-entered the world of actually fixing models with this UKP7 contraption below, rubber-faced jaws, reasonably nicely made.

 

 

worked ok...  quite strong blows to the inside of the dome with that mechanic's hammer (given to me by a retiring mechanic from Bradford in 1987) and the metal crosshead driver there. Body was not too tight, stayed in place, appears unmarkled. Dome came away after several blows, no damage to anything that I could see.

 

 

and happiness is a Black five with horizontal dome..

 

 

As to adjustability of semi-permanent engine-tender coupling, no, there is another hole but if you shortened the bar so it it didn't foul the electrics it might be too close.

 

 

Cheers, and thank you adb968008  couldn't have done it without your calm support

[Joseph_Pestell]

Well, I re-entered the world of actually fixing models with this UKP7 contraption below, rubber-faced jaws, reasonably nicely made.

 

Img_0331a_r1200.jpg

 

worked ok...  quite strong blows to the inside of the dome with that mechanic's hammer (given to me by a retiring mechanic from Bradford in 1987) and the metal crosshead driver there. Body was not too tight, stayed in place, appears unmarkled. Dome came away after several blows, no damage to anything that I could see.

 

Img_0333a_r1200.jpg

 

and happiness is a Black five with horizontal dome..

 

Img_4172abcd_r1200.jpg

 

As to adjustability of semi-permanent engine-tender coupling, no, there is another hole but if you shortened the bar so it it didn't foul the electrics it might be too close.

 

Img_0336a_r1200.jpg

 

Cheers, and thank you adb968008  couldn't have done it without your calm support

 

Surely not difficult to make up a drawbar of your own to whatever length you need.

[adb968008]

Well, I re-entered the world of actually fixing models with this UKP7 contraption below, rubber-faced jaws, reasonably nicely made.

 

Img_0331a_r1200.jpg

 

worked ok... quite strong blows to the inside of the dome with that mechanic's hammer (given to me by a retiring mechanic from Bradford in 1987) and the metal crosshead driver there. Body was not too tight, stayed in place, appears unmarkled. Dome came away after several blows, no damage to anything that I could see.

 

Img_0333a_r1200.jpg

 

and happiness is a Black five with horizontal dome..

 

Img_4172abcd_r1200.jpg

 

As to adjustability of semi-permanent engine-tender coupling, no, there is another hole but if you shortened the bar so it it didn't foul the electrics it might be too close.

 

Img_0336a_r1200.jpg

 

Cheers, and thank you adb968008 couldn't have done it without your calm support

Really glad it worked out, had you not mentioned it I probably wouldn't have modified mine initially, so thanks to you too !

 

Nice model ain't it !

[robmcg]

Surely not difficult to make up a drawbar of your own to whatever length you need.

 

I was replying to a query earlier in the thread about whether or not the drawbar was adjustable.

 

And yes one can make one's own if one has the requisite drill, vice, materials etc.  My comment was about the feasibility of simply cutting the existing drawbar shorter.

 

Cheers,

[cambo74]

Apologies if this has been asked before - I have recently bought a couple of the west highland coach pack from harburn hobbies and want to run it with a black 5 as per the 1980s - which is the correct livery and running number - LMS on the tender or British railways lion ?

 

Ben

[robmcg]

Sorry I'm not sure about 1980s Black 5s on the West Highland Line, but I suspect several liveries were used?

 

In any event here is the lovely Hornby R3323 44694 in late BR form... details added by my usual enjoyable editing methods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[adb968008]

Apologies if this has been asked before - I have recently bought a couple of the west highland coach pack from harburn hobbies and want to run it with a black 5 as per the 1980s - which is the correct livery and running number - LMS on the tender or British railways lion ?

Ben

For 1980s steam on the west highland, loco's I recall seeing up there (not a definitive list by any means)...

K1 2005 in LNER Apple and BR Black as 62005

K4 3442 in LNER green and BR black as 61994

 

Black 5s: (before 1990s privatisation)

44932 in BR lined black with "BRITISH RAILWAYS" on the tender

44871 in BR lined black late crest named "Sovereign"

5407 In LMS lined black

5305 in LMS lined black named "alderman AE Draper"

(All have welded tenders, not rivet).

 

Others:

 

48151 in BR black

75014 in BR lined black late crest (this was probably more 1990s).

673 Maude in NBR livery

5972 Hogwarts Castle ( not in the 80s)

 

Definitely late 90s onwards was 76079, 61264, 45231 (but the WHR mk1s would be gone).

 

There have been lazurite moments too with 76001, 61997, 62034, 62035, 62052 returning from the past.

 

However don't forget Ethel....

 

 

On a completely different note... Wouldn't these make a nice model...

 

BR green 44932 & 44806

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/12908189483

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/8569896180

 

Furness red 5407

 

http://mikemorant.smugmug.com/keyword/5MT;5mt;heritage/i-6WVmKNv/A

 

LNWR black (I think) 44871

 

http://mikemorant.smugmug.com/keyword/5MT;5mt;heritage/i-PxqpG46/A

 

And that....

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-8920-0-21816400-1421005810.jpg

 

those early preservationists certainly inhaled some toxins that we don't today.

[MikeParkin65]

For 1980s steam on the west highland, loco's I recall seeing up there (not a definitive list by any means)...

K1 2005 in LNER Apple and BR Black as 62005

K4 3442 in LNER green and BR black as 61994

 

Black 5s: (before 1990s privatisation)

44932 in BR lined black with "BRITISH RAILWAYS" on the tender

44871 in BR lined black late crest named "Sovereign"

5407 In LMS lined black

5305 in LMS lined black named "alderman AE Draper"

(All have welded tenders, not rivet).

 

Others:

 

48151 in BR black

75014 in BR lined black late crest (this was probably more 1990s).

673 Maude in NBR livery

5972 Hogwarts Castle ( not in the 80s)

 

Definitely late 90s onwards was 76079, 61264, 45231 (but the WHR mk1s would be gone).

 

There have been lazurite moments too with 76001, 61997, 62034, 62035, 62052 returning from the past.

 

However don't forget Ethel....

 

 

On a completely different note... Wouldn't this make a nice model...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/12908189483

Plus 44767 'George Stephenson' (BR lined black late crest, Stephenson valve gear) and 5025 (1st LMS livery with close spaced lettering) - not sure if the latter ran with the green and cream stock.thouhg.

[adb968008]

Plus 44767 'George Stephenson' (BR lined black late crest, Stephenson valve gear) and 5025 (1st LMS livery with close spaced lettering) - not sure if the latter ran with the green and cream stock.thouhg.

 

I knew I forgot one (44767), but best I recall 5025 hasn't been on the mainline in preservation, it is however the "scottish one" not venturing too far away from the Strathspey (KWVR in the early days) nor it's LMS livery.

 

Edit.. just found a picture of it in Perth in 1981.. I learned something new !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100513944@N03/9547426683

[Downer]

Hornby Magazine gave 44694 a big thumb's up, and didn't mention the dome cock-up despite it being all too evident in the accompanying picture.

 

I saw one of the models at the Waterloo Ian Allan today, and the dome was on the right way, so not all of them have been wrongly assembled.

[robmcg]

Hornby Magazine gave 44694 a big thumb's up, and didn't mention the dome cock-up despite it being all too evident in the accompanying picture.

 

I saw one of the models at the Waterloo Ian Allan today, and the dome was on the right way, so not all of them have been wrongly assembled.

 

Indeed.  I bought mine from Kernows whose picture of 44694 shows the dome right-way-round, where Hattons and Rails have theirs wrong-way-round, but it made no difference, mine was wrong.  Clearly assembled by people who didn't notice, or perhaps they copied Hornby's own pictures which are dome wrong-way-round. You cannot expect an assembly worker to know unless instructed, so it's a quality control management thing.

 

Do they still have shops where you can open and view?  You might have to open 5 before finding a good 'un. Who'd be a retailer?

[adb968008]

Seems Hornby has canceled their other Black 5s this year (45116/45274 and 45025).

[robmcg]

Seems Hornby has canceled their other Black 5s this year (45116/45274 and 45025).

 

Indeed, also such as Britannia 70001 'Lord Hurlcombe' and an LNER O1 2-8-0 and several others.

 

I have a feeling that some models have a combination of quite high labour content, profitability margin, and perhaps low pre-orders.

 

Curiously, I bought the last new LNER O1 I could find on thew web last night, and missed out on a second by bidding quite low at auction,  although the BR O1 is still widely available, the LNER variant is definitely rare. Also bought an LNER B1 , also not made in huge numbers.  Both these models are the absolute 'top of the game' for quality models, rather fragile too...  many ads for O1s show smokebox handles missing!

 

Being in a complete LNER mode at the moment, sacrilegious in a Black 5 thread,  I had thought about the Heljan ex-GNR 'Tango' 2-8-0s but they are pricey, nevertheless would be an interesting comparison to the Hornby O1,   so I bought a slightly damaged lower-price s/h O2.

 

I suspect that second-hand values for good tidy unmarked Black 5s will stay quite healthy in view of reduced output for this year at least by Hornby., UKP60-90.  but you can hardly give away weathered 44781s.

 

Sorry, I do go on!  

[sp1]

Indeed, also such as Britannia 70001 'Lord Hurlcombe' and an LNER O1 2-8-0 and several others.

 

I have a feeling that some models have a combination of quite high labour content, profitability margin, and perhaps low pre-orders.

 

Curiously, I bought the last new LNER O1 I could find on thew web last night, and missed out on a second by bidding quite low at auction, although the BR O1 is still widely available, the LNER variant is definitely rare. Also bought an LNER B1 , also not made in huge numbers. Both these models are the absolute 'top of the game' for quality models, rather fragile too... many ads for O1s show smokebox handles missing!

 

Being in a complete LNER mode at the moment, sacrilegious in a Black 5 thread, I had thought about the Heljan ex-GNR 'Tango' 2-8-0s but they are pricey, nevertheless would be an interesting comparison to the Hornby O1, so I bought a slightly damaged lower-price s/h O2.

 

I suspect that second-hand values for good tidy unmarked Black 5s will stay quite healthy in view of reduced output for this year at least by Hornby., UKP60-90. but you can hardly give away weathered 44781s.

 

Sorry, I do go on!

I wonder if alienating retailers by their terms has resulted in reduced orders - I know that one of my local model shops has stopped dealing with Hornby due to their unfavourable terms?

[adb968008]

I can understand the O1 being given a rest, how big is the market for LNER heavy freight locos ?

There's a healthy range of at least 12 on store shelves new or pending (mostly Heljan), but Bachmanns O4 is still available new plus the other Hornby O1s to be joined by the Q6 which is likely to be a big winner, so why dilute further...indeed they may produce more Q6's instead especially as one variant is sold out to preorders already.

[robmcg]

I can understand the O1 being given a rest, how big is the market for LNER heavy freight locos ?

There's a healthy range of at least 12 on store shelves new or pending (mostly Heljan), but Bachmanns O4 is still available new plus the other Hornby O1s to be joined by the Q6 which is likely to be a big winner, so why dilute further...indeed they may produce more Q6's instead especially as one variant is sold out to preorders already.

 

I think the market for all 2-8-0s is quite weak.  As you say, Bachmann O4s abound as specials often under UKP90, even the GW variant, weathered or otherwise, the Hornby O1 was as far as I can judge never a huge seller, and the Heljan O2 has had a bit of a cloud because of a bad production batch, and digital photos are not kind to that chimney rim, and it's expensive compared to O1s and O4s.  Also Heljan have not yet done the GNR cab variant of the O2?   But this is all a bit off-thread (no problem to me though)