Black 5 Bear Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Does anyone know whether the above re-release will feature the new plug and pin connection (semi-permanent) as fitted to their new models, or will it be the old system which was incredibly difficult to attach unless you have tiny fingers ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hornby usually convert to the new plug when they add sound to a loco and I believe the last black five produced was the sound model a couple of years ago. I would be pretty certain this will have the plug but the packaging should be new and allow storage permanently coupled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Has anyone bought one of these yet? I am considering buying one, but was wondering if anyone could report on whether it is up to the same standard as past Black 5s? Also are the rivets on the tender as intrusive as they look in some of the images used by Hornby? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2016 As far as I'm aware the Black 5 has always been a good performer, since the new one was released back in 2002/2003. I'm not aware that there has been any issues with them but I'm sure others can confirm this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 As far as I'm aware the Black 5 has always been a good performer, since the new one was released back in 2002/2003. I'm not aware that there has been any issues with them but I'm sure others can confirm this. Some have the dreaded running plate curve, high at the front, not as bad perhaps as the worst A3s but not amenable to a firm tweak, as some A3s are. The pics on the Hornby site look to me as if this high running plate at te front is there, but it might be the lack of steps and camera angle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Derails Models Posted March 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2016 In terms of connections, its the newer type as far as I can see. The drawbar is permanently fitted in place with the plug already connected. Its definately not that awkward little git of a system they used a few years back that you had to connect/disconnect every time you wanted to put it back in the box, they were just the worst. HTH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Andy W Posted March 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2016 Some have the dreaded running plate curve, high at the front, not as bad perhaps as the worst A3s but not amenable to a firm tweak, as some A3s are. The pics on the Hornby site look to me as if this high running plate at te front is there, but it might be the lack of steps and camera angle? Having just received an R3323 Black Five, mine at least has the running plate exactly as it should be with no unwanted curve. As Derails Models says, the power feed between loco and tender is already installed and the drawbar is screwed in place. The packaging allows for this and there's no longer an issue in running the loco and then putting it back in the box. If you needed to detach the tender, the power feed has the usual 4-pin white plug at the tender end, so could be disconnected, and the drawbar can be unscrewed, but most people won't need to do this at all. Build quality and fittings appear to be just the same as previous loco-drive main range Black Fives representing the same sub-type of the Five. The tooling was, and I think still is, capable of producing several different sub types. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Having just received an R3323 Black Five, mine at least has the running plate exactly as it should be with no unwanted curve. ... That's good, and a relief! Thanks for the info. I think I had a couple of c2003 models which were a bit high at the front. I apologise to Hornby if I have incorrectly suggested it was a common issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Here if I am permitted is a pic of an early Black 5 in the super-detail series R2360 of 44762 factory weathered 2002 model , where for some reason I thought some models were slightly high at the front. Probably just me! Sorry. early days of my experiments with marvellous new digital photography, too. cheers p.s. haven't seen the high running plate thing in other early models, clearly I am losing the plot! typo edit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Here if I am permitted is a pick of an early Black 5 in the super-detail series R2360 of 44762 factory weathered 2002 model , where for some reason I thought some models were slightly high at the front. Probably just me! Sorry. early days of my experiments with marvellous new digital photography, too. 44762_5MT_7MT_Breasting_Grade_1961_1abcd_r1200.jpg cheers p.s. haven't seen the high running plate thing in other early models, clearly I am losing the plot! Lovely pics Rob, you never disappoint.Thank you, keep them coming . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted March 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2016 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted March 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2016 as far as I am aware this is the first release of a Black 5 in lined black with a late crest on a riveted tender. Not the first - I've got R2382 No44666 from 2004 which is lined late crest with a riveted tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted March 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2016 Not the first - I've got R2382 No44666 from 2004 which is lined late crest with a riveted tender. Apologies I meant to add "unweathered" to the line above. (Corrected). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 You can never had too many black 5s. I put it onshed today with 44932, 44871, 45253 and 44908. 45377 and 44668 were close by. in short, its another black 5 and It blends in with all of them just fine. Heres a couple of comparison pictures... 44694 (is the late crest riveted tender)... Alongside is a 1950s welded tender (45253) and an early crest riveted tender (44908), slightly weathered. as far as I am aware this is the first release of a Black 5 (unweathered) in lined black with a late crest on a riveted tender. Beautiful! Suddenly I am smitten with Black 5 fever, Again! It is a marvellous condition, not made any better by having all 5 Irwell Books on the subject. They are a marvellous synopsis of all British steam development, in a sense, starting with LMS 5030 and many experiments up to about 1951. I especially like the way Hornby have faithfully modelled the various boilers, the boilers and tenders of course were swapped around during overhauls, you can get away with almost anything! Thanks adb958008 for those photos, clearly Hornby are back on track with these marvellous models of these marvellous engines. Actually I like the Bachmann Std Class 5MT just as much, being somewhat soft on SR western section history N15s Bulleids and Stds... In view of the history of the Black 5s, here is a study of an early example, domeless LMS 5036... (if permitted) tall chimney, rivetted tender, what a beautiful locomotive. I have late BR weathered examples too, but pristine certainly has a place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 In reply to "You can never had too many black 5s. I put it on shed today with 44932, 44871, 45253 and 44908. 45377 and 44668 were close by." I notice that 44694 is for the first time so far as I am aware that Hornby have made it a proper late-BR Midland Region engine with a lowered top lamp bracket. Bravo! It cries out for some sympathetic editing, sorry weathering! I am just so pleased that not only have Hornby got this iconic model back into production but they have taken the trouble to tend to the details. edit; p.s. they also sell the model with sanders fitted, a detail which is a proverbial pain to do yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 I would really like to see an unlined version being produced. Hornby have done this plain livery before on the End of Steam special locomotives. Can't really understand the reasoning in releasing two lined versions this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 As an addendum to the above photos of 44694 and trying very hard NOT to buy one, (having just bought a few other engines), I checked and 44694 was pure Midland, built in 12/50 and withdrawn in 10/67 a Low Moor engine all its life. 12/50 was the month I was born, so how can I not buy one? I shall inevitably succumb, what with Hornby future production being an open question. I wonder how many of this model have been produced? As to line/un-lined, they certainly tended to look inline in the last few years of BR steam! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 here are a selection of lined/unlined/weather/not weathered Black 5s I have photographed and edited recently, gives an idea of the potential of these lovely models. It reminds me that even the fluted/plain coupling rods vary. I hope it is ok to show these variations in the light of Hornby's recent Black 5 production. Some were weathered by other than people than me and bought from Ebay or locally or possibly Hattons, can't remember for sure. cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I know it's not a big thing and probably overlooked by the naked eye from most angles, but whoever has assembled the R3323 44694 Black 5 has got the dome reversed in every retail shop photo I've seen, also in the Hornby computer-generated side-on photo. The top should be level.. Because it is on a tapered boiler section it might be possible to get a thin blade under the front edges where it will have been made a slightly larger diameter, and discover whether it has been lightly glued or seriously glued in reverse, ....and reverse it so it is correct. Annoying once you see it, because the model is so nice in general. Maybe I'm too fussy. It shouldn't be hard to detach it and re-glue it. I'm not aware of whether-or-not there is a hole in the boiler under the dome, if so it should be even easier to detach and reverse the dome. how it should look, below, albeit this has a different top-feed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 My final pic for now, I think the best-looking of the many I've done, for today at least... 45458 lined and weathered.. but I can see 44694 joining the throng! I rather like the factory weathered 45010 too , but being a sound model they aren't cheap. And just to finish where it all began, even if LMS 5000 wasn't actually the first-built, here she is below, complete with crosshead vacuum pump. Superb! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted March 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2016 In reply to "You can never had too many black 5s. I put it on shed today with 44932, 44871, 45253 and 44908. 45377 and 44668 were close by." I notice that 44694 is for the first time so far as I am aware that Hornby have made it a proper late-BR Midland Region engine with a lowered top lamp bracket. Bravo! It cries out for some sympathetic editing, sorry weathering! I am just so pleased that not only have Hornby got this iconic model back into production but they have taken the trouble to tend to the details. edit; p.s. they also sell the model with sanders fitted, a detail which is a proverbial pain to do yourself. With the lowered midland lamp bracket I have 44781/44871 (plain black) and 45156 /45190 (lined black).Checking my dome (as it were), there is a slight angle.. It's not as pronounced as the sample pic, nor is it as bad as the Hattons images, and mine is flush to the boiler, but there is an angle.. Not enough to warrant me removing it from service, but if opt arrives I may take off the body and see if there's a lug that I can pop to re-sit it. If the right price came along I may stretch to a 2nd one, and just keep the tender as a spare ( I have a couple of spare tenders already, but they are lined / welded). I see Hornby has a few black 5s on stream this year, I saw 5156 at Ally Pally with stanier coaches (£200), very nice model and variant on the LMS liveries to date, can't quite justify it (I have a set of lms stanier and I try not to duplicate numbers and my preference is BR), but it's a good model, but also 45116 (complete with its odd sized/spaced numbers) and 45274.. (Plus 45025 in railroad), but of them all this one is to me the most unique variant just due to the tender. Going back to 45116, it seems it carried both undersized and oversized numbers during its lifetime.. A quick Google finds smaller numbers in Wellingborough in 1959 http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p129376112/h380C476E#h380c476e And oversized Scottish numbers in 1951 http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p129376112/h5CFCE8F8 I would really like to see an unlined version being produced. Hornby have done this plain livery before on the End of Steam special locomotives. Can't really understand the reasoning in releasing two lined versions this year. Hornby have done long term Carlilse based 45455 in lined black (with snow ploughs), regular on the WCML / S&C and made it till summer 1967. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I know it's not a big thing and probably overlooked by the naked eye from most angles, but whoever has assembled the R3323 44694 Black 5 has got the dome reversed in every retail shop photo I've seen, also in the Hornby computer-generated side-on photo. The top should be level.. Because it is on a tapered boiler section it might be possible to get a thin blade under the front edges where it will have been made a slightly larger diameter, and discover whether it has been lightly glued or seriously glued in reverse, ....and reverse it so it is correct. Annoying once you see it, because the model is so nice in general. Maybe I'm too fussy. It shouldn't be hard to detach it and re-glue it. I'm not aware of whether-or-not there is a hole in the boiler under the dome, if so it should be even easier to detach and reverse the dome. how it should look, below, albeit this has a different top-feed... Well spotted. It caught my eye straight away and I do think it’s a big thing, even if it is easily fixed (if Hornby has borrowed some of Heljan’s non-stick glue). I wondered if it was something to do with the angle of the photograph on the Rails site, which also seems to show a crooked chimney. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 My final pic for now, I think the best-looking of the many I've done, for today at least... 45458 lined and weathered... Hornby should only put you on a retainer in their marketing team. After a couple of decades 'unconvinced' by earlier versions of this item, I now feel persuaded. It shall be of the dome, forward top feed, garnished with a vast quantity of Midland muck persuasion I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Hornby should only put you on a retainer in their marketing team. After a couple of decades 'unconvinced' by earlier versions of this item, I now feel persuaded. It shall be of the dome, forward top feed, garnished with a vast quantity of Midland muck persuasion I think. You are far too kind, I do with editing what many do with extra detailing. The variations and subtleties of the class are addictive though! I was just about to buy 44694 when I saw a s/h weathered very forlorn re-numbered 45373 (from 45393 I think) encrusted with dust and needing to be saved, so I bought that instead! Eventually I'm bound to buy 44694, I don't have many pristine versions , and have lately gone to extremes, gloss finish or weathered. I'm kind of curious as to how many 44694 models have been made, too. In the back of my mind I have a quiet discomfort about Hornby's overdraft and how that will affect things in the next few months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted March 26, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2016 Already got two and an earlier tender powered version. I couldn't get another............or could I ? You can never have too many Black 5s Agree you should get a commission from Hornby Rob! On the LMS one , I prefer the letters further apart(like on Jubilees) but is this prototypically correct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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