Lima British outline locomotives

[FNM600]

 I am curious to know which of the many British outline locomotives did Lima make?

 Approximate periods if possible.

 Only genuine Vicenza Italy made ones, not Hornby/LIma and Lima Expert from China via Margate

 

 In particular about the steam locos and espescially the ex-LNER V2?

 

 Of interest to fora such as:

  http://www.ferramatori.it/forum/viewforum.php?f=117

  http://lima-modeltrain-collectors.xobor.de/

 

 and sites such as:

 

http://www.lima-tribute.it/

http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene%20Webs/lima-modellbahn/Seite2.htm

 

 

 Thank you very much in advance!

 

 

[Downendian]

Ramsay's guide lists the lot with release date, for me it's an essential book when buying secondhand stuff from ebay.

Neil

[Butler Henderson]

And significantly they never made the V2.

[Horsetan]

Lima produced, for British "OO", as far as I can remember:

 

Gresley J50

Hawksworth 94xx (on the incorrect J50 chassis)

 

LMS/BR "Crab"

GWR/BR "King"

 

BR diesel and electric

Class 09

Class 26

Class 27

Class 31

Class 33

Class 37

Class 40

Class 42

Class 47

Class 50

Class 52

Class 55 (way too short!)

Class 60 (or was it a 67?) - it came quite late in the day before closure

Class 73

Class 86

 

I think there was also an Irish IE/IR "201" as well, again very late in the day.

 

And significantly they never made the V2.

That was a NuCast kit on the front cover of the Lima 1981 catalogue, I think....

[Clive Mortimore]

Lima produced, for British "OO", as far as I can remember:

 

Gresley J50

Hawksworth 94xx (on the incorrect J50 chassis)

 

LMS/BR "Crab"

GWR/BR "King"

 

BR diesel and electric

Class 09

Class 26

Class 27

Class 31

Class 33

Class 37

Class 40

Class 42

Class 47

Class 50

Class 52

Class 55 (way too short!)

Class 60 (or was it a 67?) - it came quite late in the day before closure

Class 73

Class 86

 

I think there was also an Irish IE/IR "201" as well, again very late in the day.

 

That was a NuCast kit on the front cover of the Lima 1981 catalogue, I think....

Hi Horsetan

 

Good list. Here are a few addtions.

 

They produced both a class 60 and 67.

 

Their overhead loco was a Class 87.

 

And don't forget the Class 117 (or was it a 118) DMU.

 

 

 

And the HST, with scale length coaches.

 

Oh just remembered their little GWR 45xx (?) 2-6-2 T.

[shunny]

There was also the class101, class 121 and the GWR railcar.

The one thing I really miss from Lima was the speed they could produce a new livery, you would see the real thing in the press and within a few months it would be out and on your layout and generally correct.

Now it takes months just to get modern image loco announced and after years waiting for production some of the liveries are still wrong!

[leopardml2341]

GWR Railcar in both passenger and parcels form..............

 

Edit - and Class 20

 

Edit - and Class 59

[Clive Mortimore]

There was also the class101, class 121 and the GWR railcar.

The one thing I really miss from Lima was the speed they could produce a new livery, you would see the real thing in the press and within a few months it would be out and on your layout and generally correct.

Now it takes months just to get modern image loco announced and after years waiting for production some of the liveries are still wrong!

Hi Shunny

 

I only have 3 Lima Class 101s and a Limby one.......whoops how did I forget.

 

I had a couple of GWR railcars, I was going to convert them into a 2 car unit.

 

Never did have a 121, I had converted some 117s into a 121 and a 122 complete with a DTS.

 

As for the deltic being too short, it can be made longer http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/62561-rough-engineering-made-easy-converting-diesels/?p=1040520

[Coach bogie]

I recall Lima producing an LMS 4F in both 00 (though probably HO in reality) and O.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[John M Upton]

There was a catalogue that listed an entire wish list of forthcoming models, all three Peaks, Classes 90 and 91 and I think something else as well spring to mind.

 

I am still waiting on the centre car in NSE livery for my Class 101 that appeared in that same catalogue that I have had on pre-order with a long since closed retailer since about 1994...   

[Horsetan]

I recall Lima producing an LMS 4F in both 00 (though probably HO in reality) and O.

The former was very much HO.

 

The O-gauge one was quite a popular subject for upgrading kits.

[Hroth]

I recall Lima producing an LMS 4F in both 00 (though probably HO in reality) and O.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Like the J50 and the 94xx, the O gauge 4F was, in reality, an 0-4-0 loco masquerading as an 0-6-0 - they all had floating central drivers.  I've not seen the HO/OO 4F, but I'd suspect it shared the J50/94xx chassis.  They also did the 4F in N gauge - tender drive with, you guessed it, a floating centre driver!

 

I just browsed through my loco collection - my Limas include;

 

J50, 94xx, 45xx, Crab, King, LMS 0-6-0DE, many class 20s, class 33, many class 37s,  class 42, class 52, class 55, class 73,  class 117, W22W in Blood'n'Custard.

 

They're not bad locos. They tend to be noisy and some are more approximate than others (ok, some are very approximate!) but they do the job and I wouldn't scrap them just because the axels are in the wrong place...

[FNM600]

  Thank you very much for all you kind answers which were very informative.  I am amazed about the size of the British outline range in 1:76 4mm/ft scale!

 

   It is now pretty obvious to myself by now that the nice looking V2 steam engine was never made!

   This query was made by one of my fellow countrymen who couldn't see it on e-Bay unlike the nice Crab which he bought, pity its out of scale with the RR Royal Scot and 4F, but he is more easy going than myself on scale!

 

   Re: 1:87 3.5mm range one can visit:

 

http://www.limabritishho.co.uk/LBHO-Home.htm

 

for accurate details about that range.

 

 This info will also be passed  (I will endevour to acknowledge those of you who helped) to the various Lima sites I know:

 

 

  http://www.ferramato...forum.php?f=117   Here I have the same nickname FNM600

  http://lima-modeltra...ctors.xobor.de/

 

http://www.lima-tribute.it/

http://mmiwakoh.de/E...bahn/Seite2.htm

 

I like the nickname Limby for the Chinese made Lima range!

 

 Incidentally Brescia the local current Hornby warehouse is half way between the 2 former Hornby factories!

 

I confide that my my first train set from Father Christmas was Lima... but later on I moved to the other now Hornby owned trademark...  in search of quality rather than quantity.

 

 Pity that I never saw their mithical Royal Scot  in GB !

I happened to have lived in GB for many years and I gingerly returned to acquire some Lima upon the arrival of British outline in 1973 in Morrison of all places! I was a student then. But then I lost interest in British model scene upon the changeover of scale.

 

 I hope that the moderators will not ban me again for being too enthusiastic about HO !

 

  Thank you again.

[Horsetan]

....I am amazed about the size of the British outline range in 1:76 4mm/ft scale!....

So was I when trying to remember all of the diesels that Lima produced!

[Andy Y]

There was also the class101, class 121 and the GWR railcar.

The one thing I really miss from Lima was the speed they could produce a new livery, you would see the real thing in the press and within a few months it would be out and on your layout and generally correct.

Now it takes months just to get modern image loco announced and after years waiting for production some of the liveries are still wrong!

That is because Lima had arrangements in place (as did Hornby, Bachmann, Graham Farish etc.) with British Rail that allowed them to reproduce models and to get assistance from BR to do so.

 

Today it is all about licensing. If you had to deal with some of the companies today you would soon jump to the conclusion that it would be easier to produce anything before privatisation kicked in.

 

Today there are locomotive and rolling stock manufacturers, leasing companies, government departments (specifically in Scotland), train operators and their owning companies who all have to be contacted.

 

I know of one manufacturer who took three years to obtain a license to produce National Express East Coast liveried trains (they already had the models in other liveries). They got it a month before National Express handed the keys in!

 

Licensing is a minefield and Lima never had to endure it.

[F-UnitMad]

 

 

This query was made by one of my fellow countrymen who couldn't see it on e-Bay unlike the nice Crab which he bought, pity its out of scale with the RR Royal Scot and 4F, but he is more easy going than myself on scale!

He would have to be easy going on scale with "British HO" models... The Lima locos were way too wide for 1:87. The Rivarossi Royal Scot was, if I recall correctly, actually scaled at about 1:82 - neither HO or OO !!!

[Butler Henderson]

Another unmade loco was the Princess Royal.

[papagolfjuliet]

Like the J50 and the 94xx, the O gauge 4F was, in reality, an 0-4-0 loco masquerading as an 0-6-0 - they all had floating central drivers.  I've not seen the HO/OO 4F, but I'd suspect it shared the J50/94xx chassis.

 

I have one kicking around somewhere and yes, it does have floating centre drivers.

[papagolfjuliet]

True story about the huge Lima N gauge BR brake and mineral wagon: Lima's model makers were given the (already too big) Tri-ang models and told to make scaled down copies, so that's what they did. Only trouble was that they assumed that the Tri-ang models were HO, and scaled them down accordingly.

[RJS1977]

Like the J50 and the 94xx, the O gauge 4F was, in reality, an 0-4-0 loco masquerading as an 0-6-0 - they all had floating central drivers.  I've not seen the HO/OO 4F, but I'd suspect it shared the J50/94xx chassis.  They also did the 4F in N gauge - tender drive with, you guessed it, a floating centre driver!

 

I just browsed through my loco collection - my Limas include;

 

J50, 94xx, 45xx, Crab, King, LMS 0-6-0DE, many class 20s, class 33, many class 37s,  class 42, class 52, class 55, class 73,  class 117, W22W in Blood'n'Custard.

 

They're not bad locos. They tend to be noisy and some are more approximate than others (ok, some are very approximate!) but they do the job and I wouldn't scrap them just because the axels are in the wrong place...

 

On balance, I'd rather buy three Lima diesels at say £40 each than one modern "super-detail" model at say £120.

 

Of course,if someone was going to give me a super detailed or three Lima, that might be a different matter....

 

However I do think an affordable range like Lima's is needed today.

 

Had considered buying a Heljan Class 14  a couple of years ago after we had one on the CWR, but I couldn't really justify spending £100 on it,especially as I planned to repaint it. Had there been a Lima offering, though.... 

[jjb1970]

A lot of the Lima models were very good. They were let down by a very crude pancake motor until the class 67 but on many of the models the appearance was good. They are lacking in detail compared to modern model but some of them can be made into first class models with a bit of work. Personally I think their survival as Railroad models fills quite an important niche and with the new motor bogie the running qualities are far better than the original Lima versions.

[RJS1977]

 Personally I think their survival as Railroad models fills quite an important niche and with the new motor bogie the running qualities are far better than the original Lima versions.

 

Unfortunately not enough of them - the only Lima items currently in the Railroad range are the 31,40,42 and 55.

 

Nothing wrong with these, but I would have thought there should be more of a market for low-cost models than that. 

[leopardml2341]

A lot of the Lima models were very good. They were let down by a very crude pancake motor until the class 67 but on many of the models the appearance was good. They are lacking in detail compared to modern model but some of them can be made into first class models with a bit of work. Personally I think their survival as Railroad models fills quite an important niche and with the new motor bogie the running qualities are far better than the original Lima versions.

 

Not strictly true - the Class 20 had a can motor with cardan shaft drive - albeit to only one bogie.

 

Rgds,

[FNM600]

I have one kicking around somewhere and yes, it does have floating centre drivers.

 You are correct as I recently bought one on e-Bay. The coupling rods connect only to the outer wheels. Not a good publicity for HO locos ! 

  Roco's export EE 0-6-0 diesel shunter to Holland NS 600 / BR class 11 is done more faithfully!

[FNM600]

Re Post #24 re class 20 may be the exception that confirms the rule. It is correct and it had be done because the standard "pancake" motor known as G type by Lima wouldn't fit the narrow engine  compartment. The are other similar narrow engine compartment engines of other nationalities too.

 Here is http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/LIMA/Index_LIMA.htm where if one clicks on the picture of a generic power bogie one sees pages of service sheets of engines of all nationalities (some familiar and others strange) all monting variations of such motor! 

  4 and 6 wheel plus fast/passenger and slow/goods gear ratios!

 There were maybe even millions produced in Vicenza sent all over the world under the bodies of all sorts of locos from about 1964/65  until the late 80s.

 From the mid 80s then the  so called "cardanic" mechanism such as for the class 67 to cite a GB model with large centrally mounted can motor and transmission to both bogies by means of "universal joints" starting on the more expensive later models. 

 

  It was cheap and cheerful. To modellers in Italy and some other countries it looked like a cheap plastic "clone" of a better type Fleischmann or/and  Ma"rklin ringfield pancake type of the period from Germany!

 

  This is what the other ex-Hornby factory produced:

http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/Tecnica/Rivarossi_Particolari_Tecnici.htm

 

 I am sorry it is still in Italian, but work is going on to translate.  But pictures of motor including the one with ball bearings.

 

 However these were more expensive than Lima.

 

 

 

 Again, thank you to all of you for volonteered info on GB models produced.