Midland Railway Company

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, lezz01 said:

I have that as well but it doesn't list Bromsgrove at all. The LMS engine sheds Vol 2 is the same. It has allocations for 1945 but not 1920. Bromsgrove was 4a which was a sub shed of Worcester 4 so you need to find which of Worcester's allocation were subbed to Bromsgrove.   

 

Summerson's four volumes list allocations at various dates for each class; sometimes but not always indicating when engines were allocated to sub sheds. So one would have to trawl through. I made myself a spreadsheet from his data but its for 1899-1902 not 1920. He does give a history of which engines were allocated for banking, between the chapters on the various 0-6-0T classes.

[Fair Oak Junction]

Ahh well, thanks for the help anyway everyone. It was just a passing bit of interest so I won't bother delving deeper 👍

[Compound2632]

Well, for 1899-1902, Summerson gives Worcester's allocation as:

• 1400 Class 2-4-0s Nos. 1483-1490;
• 700 Class 0-6-0s Nos. 770-779 and Nos. 927-936;
• 1377 Class 0-6-0T No. 210;

with at Bromsgrove:

• 2441 Class 0-6-0Ts Nos. 2457-2460.

But this doesn't mean, I think, that one or two of the Kirtley 0-6-0s weren't based at Bromsgrove. I wonder if the 1377 Class 0-6-0T might have been used for shunting at the wagon works, though there would have been plenty of shunting work at Worcester. Here's a 1921 photo of a Kirtley 0-6-0 in the wagon works:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 60260.]

 

Was 2905 on Worcester's allocation in 1920?

 

Kirtley 0-6-0s seem to have been pressed into banking work, a straight-frame 240 Class one here in 1911:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 60906.]

 

This 0-4-4T is No. 1734, at the time the solitary engine allocated to Redditch, also a sub shed of Worcester:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 60910.]

[Fair Oak Junction]

Wow, I've never seen that photo of the banking 4-4-0T. Fascinating!

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

Wow, I've never seen that photo of the banking 4-4-0T. Fascinating!

 

Many a happy hour can be spent perusing the photo thumbnails on the Midland Railway Study Centre online catalogue:

https://www.midlandrailwaystudycentre.org.uk/catalogue.php

Prints or high-res scans of many of them can be obtained from the Kidderminster Railway Museum.

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

Oh really? I'm only about 10 mins from Kidderminster so that's handy to know.

[RobAllen]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

Many a happy hour can be spent perusing the photo thumbnails on the Midland Railway Study Centre online catalogue:

https://www.midlandrailwaystudycentre.org.uk/catalogue.php

I merely need to find more time in each day…

[DenysW]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Many a happy hour can be spent ...

At Kew, discovering might-have-beens.

 

In the Great Northern accounts for the second half of 1852 there is reproduced a letter from John Ellis (MR) positively responding to a suggestion that the companies merge. "Candour compels" him to acknowledge that the MR has re-started merger discussions with the LNWR, of which he was also a director. At the same time the GWR and LNWR were submitting a Bill to Parliament to allow their merger. Wow to any of that, in any combination(s), having gone through.

 

Root cause for GWR/LNWR/MR/GNR: over-expansion giving debt/Guaranteed Shares that massively hit profitability, making the Proprietors very unhappy. For the GNR it was the East Lincolnshire Railway. For the Midland it was mostly the Leeds & Bradford*. For the GWR it was mortgaging the main railway almost as soon as they'd built it. For the LNWR it was acquisitions too numerous to list.

 

* The Bristol & Birmingham may have been big and active enough to be less of a financial leg-iron. The Leicester & Swannington was too small to matter. Not sure where the £50 shares money went, but the interest was a sheet-anchor on profitability.

[Compound2632]

It is notable that the Midland ordered scarcely any new rolling stock between the end of 1852 and c. 1859/60.

[DenysW]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

It is notable that the Midland ordered scarcely any new rolling stock between the end of 1852 and c. 1859/60.

The Midland was struggling to pay dividends that the Proprietors didn't regard as an insult - their expectation was 5-10%, and they were getting much less (2% in 1850 compared to 7% in 1847). As a result their shares were also trading at way below par. Injury added to injury. Recovery was gradual, but they were out of the mire - by 1859!

 

The 1850 meeting was the start of the Large Engine Policy: the Proprietors suggested smaller engines would save money, but were told the mixed character of the Midland's business needed large engines.

 

 

[Tricky]

Hi all! 👋🏻

I’ve started an experimental build of one of these (image lifted from Google):

I’ve long held some affection for these diminutive shutters. Whilst I don’t need one for Tewkesbury I figure life is too short to worry about such things! I only have the very small drawing in ‘Midland Locos’ but that’s ok as I only aim to capture the essence of the loco rather than a super accurate model. There appear to be detail differences across photos of them that I have seen anyway. 
The experimental bit is to make the frames from Rowmark. This is a plastic very similar to styrene but it can be laser cut. So here are the frames. I’ve built them as one with the footplate to aid rigidity. There is still some flex but this will hopefully be eradicated somehow as the build progresses. 

 

One set of horn guides have been superglued in, awaiting rods which will be soldered up next, before the second set can be fitted. I’m also raiding the spares box for buffers, buffer planks, brake blocks, sand boxes etc. Lastly for now, I’m having a go at drawing and 3D printing a chimney and dome. Here goes…! 

[Tricky]

And here are the results of my 3D printing exercise. The saddle tank is made from about 24 laminations of thin MDF cut to the cross section of the tank, glued up, sanded smooth and covered with thick paper. Minimal cost here!

 

You can see the light shining through the resin on the partially hollow chimney. I managed to work out how to draw the curve to the bases of the chimney and dome to follow the curve of the tank top but how to draw the flare to follow that curve has stumped me so the slight excess around the bases was sanded away with a tiny sanding drum bit in the Dremel. I also need a tank filler lid which will be similarly printed later today. 
 

Whilst the laser won’t cut metal, I’m wondering if it will score through marker pen on the surface of nickel or brass sheet. If it does, I could draw the profile of the curved cab front/roof and transfer this profile onto the sheet using the laser to guide cutting the shape out. We shall see…

 

[41516]

On 08/03/2024 at 13:22, Tricky said:

I’ve long held some affection for these diminutive shutters

 

See my username and avatar!   Somewhat of a family favourite ever since my Great-Grandad took Grandad on his first loco footplate aboard 1516 when he was a young boy in the early 1930s.

 

'Big' 1516 in 7mm is currently looking a bit scruffy - she's in the middle of a 'major' - Bought second hand, I'm working my way through issues both with the Underhill/CSP kit and the previous builder's choices so when I start my own, I can correct at source.  Chassis done, boiler/cab part way through and then the major work on to correct both bufferbeams being soldered far too low...

 

 

 

'Small' is the K's kit, with it's own problems, also having work done so i know what needs doing on the others. Will be either 1500 or 1501 about 1921 in the end.

 

On 08/03/2024 at 13:22, Tricky said:

There appear to be detail differences across photos of them that I have seen anyway. 

 

For Midland days, there are few differences between locos - the main thing not to mix up the smaller 1322/1116As with the much beefier 1134A class, as with your photo of 1142a (and your dome shape suggests the smaller classes).   Really changes are the H-spoke wheels being replaced, full cabs for some and bells for those sent to work at docksides.  It's really when the survivors get towards LMS days that you start to see individual 'fingerprints' - replacement /patched bunkers, short/long buffers, injector pipework differences, smokebox side lubricators and so on.

 

If you'd like any measurements to help (or a scan of the cab etch) I can certainly try to help.

Edited March 11 by 41516

[Tricky]

9 hours ago, 41516 said:

 

See my username and avatar!   Somewhat of a family favourite ever since my Great-Grandad took Grandad on his first loco footplate aboard 1516 when he was a young boy in the early 1930s.

 

'Big' 1516 in 7mm is currently looking a bit scruffy - she's in the middle of a 'major' - Bought second hand, I'm working my way through issues both with the Underhill/CSP kit and the previous builder's choices so when I start my own, I can correct at source.  Chassis done, boiler/cab part way through and then the major work on to correct both bufferbeams being soldered far too low...

 

 

 

'Small' is the K's kit, with it's own problems, also having work done so i know what needs doing on the others. Will be either 1500 or 1501 about 1921 in the end.

 

 

For Midland days, there are few differences between locos - the main thing not to mix up the smaller 1322/1116As with the much beefier 1134A class, as with your photo of 1142a (and your dome shape suggests the smaller classes).   Really changes are the H-spoke wheels being replaced, full cabs for some and bells for those sent to work at docksides.  It's really when the survivors get towards LMS days that you start to see individual 'fingerprints' - replacement /patched bunkers, short/long buffers, injector pipework differences, smokebox side lubricators and so on.

 

If you'd like any measurements to help (or a scan of the cab etch) I can certainly try to help.

Any measurements and cab etch scan would be very helpful, thank you! 

[Northroader]

Can’t find the reference now, I’m afraid, but way back, 1950s 60s sort of era, there was an article done in the Railway Modeller by Norman Eagles, (who created the “Sherwood Section”) He had gone to Burton shed and been given access to measure up one of these engines, and did a drawing for it. Sorry I’ve slung my clipping for this in a clearout a few months ago, just have the model left:

 

[41516]

Yes, they measured 41523, with only 41518 at Staveley the other late survivor of the 1142s.  Again, there appear to be some problems with the RM drawing (cab windows too low for one) that rear up when you use the drawing alone and not cross reference against photos.

 

I suspect this was the same time that the measurements of 41516 were made that ended up being the basis of the K's kit, and perhaps a few of the errors snuck across then (too small a dome and wheelbase of the larger class).

 

 

Here's an old picture of Dad's scratchbuilt 41523 which must be coming up for it's 40th birthday.

 

 

 

Edited March 12 by 41516

[jamie92208]

This model of 1142 was built by my late friend Tony Bond and ran on my Green Ayre layout.  It was scratchbuilt in 7mm scale.

It's now in the care of his daughter.

 

Jamie

[Northroader]

May I add that the article and drawing I was on about was in Railway Modeller No. 69.

[Tricky]

More progress on the saddle tank. I’ve been raiding the spares box again and found buffer planks, coupling hooks, buffers (with large heads!) horn blocks and guides and coupling rods (with a bit of tweaking). The wheels are new! It’s almost a rolling set of frames, just a bit of binding and clearance issues to sort. 
 

 

[Tricky]

However the jury is still out on whether plastic locos are a good idea! 

[Tricky]

Any suggestions on a suitably tiny motor/gearbox combo? 

[airnimal]

ABC mini gearbox. Not cheap but quality very rarely is. Sorry for the poor photograph. 

[Tricky]

A bit more action on my ‘plastic’ loco. Thanks to @41516 I was able to confirm that the overall sizes I had for the saddle

tank weren’t far off, however the positions of the chimney and dome were off so I decided to make another. This was made as before with about 25 mdf laser cut layers stuck together like a loaf of bread, sanded, covered in paper, and then a couple of coats of shellac sanded smooth. I also re-drew and re-printed the dome as photos seem to indicate a shorter than standard version with the salter posts actually appearing from the base of the dome rather than the boiler as in tank and tender engines. 
I think next I will add the remaining details to the tank and then turn up a boiler. 
I may also have dug out an old motor/gearbox from my spares box so that’s good. This engine (if it works) will have been made on a budget that’s for sure! 
 

[41516]

Just now, Tricky said:

I also re-drew and re-printed the dome as photos seem to indicate a shorter than standard version

 

The 'shorter' domes are only on the larger 1134As as they are substantially larger locos with bigger boilers and tanks.  K's got this wrong in 4mm and provided a short dome for the smaller classes.

 

[Tricky]

44 minutes ago, 41516 said:

 

The 'shorter' domes are only on the larger 1134As as they are substantially larger locos with bigger boilers and tanks.  K's got this wrong in 4mm and provided a short dome for the smaller classes.

 

 Oh! Oh well, I don’t fancy making it three times! Nevermind, but thanks for the info.