david.hill64 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 So I have gone with the Sandy/Ken approach: As Sandy suggested I slit some slots (wonder if I can say that after a few beers) and drilled a couple of holes in the bushes to take some 0.7mm N/S wire, the other ends of which are soldered to the frames. I think I need a stronger arrangement, but this works. The bearings no longer rotate and the centre axle is sprung nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Shaw Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Primarily for David, but anyone else is welcome to pour scorn or adulation, as they see fit. I built this probably 10 years ago, so I really should get around to finishing it. After over 2 years in storage it didn't really want to go on the rolling road, I think the back scratcher pickups are filthy. Regards Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 I decided to put aside the tender today while I think about how to detail the front plate. So it's been a day on the loco frames and some good progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Help please! What parts of the motions/frames were painted red? Thanks! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 So far as I'm aware, anything that wasn't a bearing surface I.e. Not slide bars, piston or valve rods.. JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Wright Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Help please! What parts of the motions/frames were painted red? Thanks! David Hi, the J35/37s I saw working arround Edinburgh in the period 1962 -1964ish you couldn,t tell. They were in a terrible state, mostly greenish grey including buffer beams although occasionally they were murky red. I suppose as a concession to safety. Numbering on the cabs was usually cleaned off, all the smokebox doors were badly burnt and rusted below half way. But, and this is the answer that might help. once I saw a freshly overhauled J37 it had been done at Inverurie Works (Old GNOS works). I, aged about 13 was indulged by the driver in the local yard (Scotland Street) and was allowed to oil bits. On the footplate I was allowed to fill something (Now I know it was the mechanical lubricator) Inside the frames was bright red, absolutely everything as I remember. This is to read with caution since it is a recollection of a steam obsessed 13 year old! However later in life we lived close by the late Hugh Gordon (an ex NB loco works designer) who worked at Inverurie Works. He made very accurate models of GNOS locos in the BR era. They all had the inside faces of the frames, motion and axleboxes painted red(vermillion). I never looked so I cannot say if the same finish was applied to the inside of the tender frames. I suspect now that is the sort of question we would find it hard to answer. Why was the motion and inside work painted vermillion? I do not know and would like too. I can only hypothesise that as vermillion is a very expensive pigment (it is toxic too-mercuric sulphide) it was not done for looks, was it a rust preventing finish, did cracks show up well on it? was it simply to act as a warning-go in here at your peril! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 The valve gear looks very impressive. May I ask, was it in the kit or an add on? Either way, it certainly adds something to the model. My understanding is that the red paint - widely used my many railway companies - was a primitive health and safety measure. But I can quote no authority for this. Because of the moving parts it could be a very dangerous place to be - although normally no one but a fool would put his body in there unless the engine was standing still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 The valve gear looks very impressive. May I ask, was it in the kit or an add on? Either way, it certainly adds something to the model. My understanding is that the red paint - widely used my many railway companies - was a primitive health and safety measure. But I can quote no authority for this. Because of the moving parts it could be a very dangerous place to be - although normally no one but a fool would put his body in there unless the engine was standing still. My understanding of the red paint was to show up any cracks easily as they would appear as black oily lines. Invisible on black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I used to paint engine blocks and cylinder heads red to show up oil leaks and cracks. I should imagine the same was applied to frames on locos for exactly this reason .... ..... as N15 class suggested Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 The valve gear looks very impressive. May I ask, was it in the kit or an add on? Either way, it certainly adds something to the model. My understanding is that the red paint - widely used my many railway companies - was a primitive health and safety measure. But I can quote no authority for this. Because of the moving parts it could be a very dangerous place to be - although normally no one but a fool would put his body in there unless the engine was standing still. Thank you: it is standard in the kit, but I used some 1mm brass tube (not supplied) to help assembly. The instructions say to make the tubes that separate the drop links and reverser links 3/8" long. Next time I would make them different lengths to allow for the width of the drop links: make the drop link spacer slightly narrower. This will help when it comes to getting the crossheads past the drop links and into the slidebars. David Edit to add the hint on the brass spacer tubes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 This morning I was able to fit the brake gear. No issues at all except the lack of hands! Sometimes I think it would be useful to be an octopus, though soldering underwater might be tricky! So next I need to make up the gearbox, add crankpins and pickups and we'll be good to go (I hope). I already made the coupling rods to check that the axle bearings were installed correctly. Edit to add that I forgot to say that the idea of using the brass tube as stand-offs for the brakes works very well, so for anyone who has this kit or are thinking about buying it, so far it has been very straightforward to build and i would buy a length of 1mm brass tubing for the motion and brake assembly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Shaw Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Help please! What parts of the motions/frames were painted red? Thanks! David David Inside faces of frames, motion bracket, eccentric rods and connecting rods. The back of the cylinder block was likely black but by the time you've added cylinder covers, valve spindle stuffing glands et al there precious little left to see. Likewise the frame spacer behind the crank axle is in reality the front of the firebox and ashpan. There might be paint ex works but it would have burnt off pretty quickly, therefore rust. Piston rods, valve spindles, slide bars, crossheads, expansion links, eccentric straps and big ends all natural finish primarily steel. Hope this helps. Thanks to everyone who liked my effort. Regards Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Grr! So having bought a second hand 3/16" parallel hand reamer on Ebay, which arrived today, I used it to find that it is in fact a 5mm reamer and I now have a scrap gearbox. Modelling finished for this evening and off to the pub. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Grr! So having bought a second hand 3/16" parallel hand reamer on Ebay, which arrived today, I used it to find that it is in fact a 5mm reamer and I now have a scrap gearbox. Modelling finished for this evening and off to the pub. Could you open the holes out to take 1/4" brass tube or top hat bearings, then cut them flush to both the inside and outside faces. I tend to use a 4.8mm reamer for the bearings. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Could you open the holes out to take 1/4" brass tube or top hat bearings, then cut them flush to both the inside and outside faces. I tend to use a 4.8mm reamer for the bearings. OzzyO. Thanks Paul, As it happens there was a spare gearbox with the kit, but I will certainly try to salvage the original as per your suggestion. What infuriates me is that I had deliberately stopped work pending arrival of the reamer - which I need anyway. I didn't think to check that it was correct before using it. After opening the gearbox holes, I decided to run it through the axle bearings. When i put it in it started to take a big bite, which I knew was wrong and it was only then that I checked the size. Pity as it is a nice tool. I only ordered it second hand as Cromwell's website was down at the time. After a bottle of claret I am now more relaxed. I have some axle bearings and can open out the holes to take them. Now where's that reamer...................? David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 So today has been spent not worrying about the gearbox and fitting the pick-ups. I am going to use Gibson 4mm ones, so first needed to solder some M2 washers over the location holes which are too big for the body of the pick-ups. The chassis is now ready for cleaning up and painting before final assembly. So next it was making a start on the body, starting with the cab. The only slightly tricky bit was bending the splasher tops. I am not a huge fan of butt joints but it seems to have worked. next I need to emboss rivets on the smokebox wrapper and wing plate: these aren't prepared in the kit so I will have to mark them out first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Shaw Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 David A word of caution if I may. The vast majority of this class were built with and eventually scrapped with countersunk rivets around the smokebox. It appears from my reference material that Maude herself didn't get a snap riveted smokebox until the 50's. probably 31/12/52 being the accountancy date, ex 65238. It was susbsequently reboilered again, 22/9/59 again possibly a new boiler. The boiler had a lot of work done in the 90's and I doubt the smokebox is anything other than new at that time. Regards Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 David A word of caution if I may. The vast majority of this class were built with and eventually scrapped with countersunk rivets around the smokebox. It appears from my reference material that Maude herself didn't get a snap riveted smokebox until the 50's. probably 31/12/52 being the accountancy date, ex 65238. It was susbsequently reboilered again, 22/9/59 again possibly a new boiler. The boiler had a lot of work done in the 90's and I doubt the smokebox is anything other than new at that time. Regards Martin Martin, Thanks. I really need to double check this before going further. I have a very good photo reported to be in July 1958 when clearly she has countersunk rivets. She has snap heads now, but perhaps that is a preservation change? It never ceases to amaze me just how much difference there could be in a loco at different times. I remember being told when I joined BR in 1978 that no two class 47's were identical! Really appreciate the input. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Shaw Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 David Well you've got me wondering now. If you go here, www.srpssteam.com , there is a pic of Maude at Bathgate in 1964 with no smokebox rivets, but more usefully there is a pic of the boiler out of the frames, probably at Bo'ness but possibly Falkirk, either way it again has no rivets visible. It appears despite my previous post that snaphead rivets were a preservation era addition when the boiler had a major overhaul in the 90's. Presumably driven by cost considerations. Hope Bangkok is somewhat sunnier than Glasgow. Regards Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 The jury has returned a verdict: no visible rivets on either the wrapper or the wing plate, so on with the job! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 More progress with the superstructure. Boiler clamped up ready for soldering, next to smokebox. Here are the three main parts: smokebox, boiler/firebox and cab sitting on the running plate. I will wait till I am fresh to the workbench before fitting permanently. I have the boiler bands and washout plugs to fit first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It is looking good/ I really dislike the half etching for the boiler bands I prefer adding them out of tape at the painting stage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'm with you on the bands, always the wrong size. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2015 love the build, really interesting. The clamps you are using look really good, where did you get them from please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 If you already haven't seen them you might find this album of photographs from the SRPS showing Maude over the years of use. http://www.srpssteam.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=21&pos=0 It would look as if Maude has never had a visibly riveted smokebox, however I would draw your attention to the centre driving wheel spashers! Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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