gordon s Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I've been doing some work at home on our domestic electrics and ordered all the lights and junction boxes from Screwfix. When I went down to collect my bits and bobs, I got chatting to the guy behind the counter who told me about these. They are zero insertion force (ZIF) connectors, primarily designed for domestic ring circuits and available in 2,3 and 5 way blocks. The cable sizes would take both the typical 1.5mm bus wire and 7/0.2 or 16/0.2 dropper wires. It's just a case of lifting the lever, push in the bare wire and close it. Job done! The only slight disadvantage I can see is that the bus wire will go in and out, rather than straight through, but I can see the potential for use in loads of areas outside domestic ring wiring. Sorely tempted to buy a pack to play around with….. http://www.screwfix.com/p/3-way-lever-connector-222-series-pack-of-50/76776 http://www.screwfix.com/p/5-way-lever-connector-222-series-pack-of-40/38224 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Forgive my ineptitude, Gordon (re all things electric!), but in the case of adding a dropper to a bus, would it be a 3-way block that's used... two for the in and out of the bus and the third for the dropper... and hey presto it's done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yes, that's one way, but of course you could use a 5 way and then connect three droppers to the same block. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 This is another way of solving the same issue. Screws, rather than ZIF contacts, but an easy way of commoning loads of droppers... http://www.screwfix.com/p/8-way-earth-block/11385 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The Wago connectors are cheaper at Rapid and you don't have to buy 50:) Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Are these cheaper than suitcase connectors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Just checked that out Andrew and it's not quite as clear cut as it would appear. Buying 50 is no big deal, but let's suppose I just wanted 20. The picture changes in as much I accept I haven't had to buy 50, but those 20 have now cost £10.16 or £0.508 each v £0.288 from Screwfix. Once you take VAT and P & P into account, it's a whole new picture. For me, Screwfix are less than a mile away and I can order and collect in 5 minutes….. Here are the Rapid costs. Comparing like for like, 50 will cost more again…. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Are these cheaper than suitcase connectors? Haven't checked, but the big problem with suitcase connectors is that they are IDC (Insulation Displacement Connectors) and generally have a much smaller range of cable sizes (cross sectional area) to work properly and reliably. The width of the IDC slot is carefully calculated to accept a specific range of wire sizes without cutting strands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 What a coincidence... I've just had a flyer through the letterbox announcing a new Screwfix opening in nearby Torquay, and there's 10% of everything in store!!!... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 If you have a branch of TLC nearby, they are cheaper than Rapid. They are generally one of the best price wise for most stuff. https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WA413.html https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Accessories_Index/Wago/index.html 20 x 3-way WAGO spring connectors = £4.17 + Vat 50 x 3-way = £9.90 + Vat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Haven't checked, but the big problem with suitcase connectors is that they are IDC (Insulation Displacement Connectors) and generally have a much smaller range of cable sizes (cross sectional area) to work properly and reliably. The width of the IDC slot is carefully calculated to accept a specific range of wire sizes without cutting strands. OK, thanks. I understand that for a larger range of sizes, but for bus and dropper wires? One still has to strip the insulation from these wires in order to use the connector you recommend. So, if the wires are of compatible sizes, what is the benefit? I ask, because I have already started using suitcase connectors at one end of my new layout (still at an early stage of construction), at the recommendation of others on this forum, in place of soldering, but you have now made me a bit worried! I have about 70 droppers yet to wire up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted February 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2015 TLC also provide excellent mail order services (used more for DIY than model railways) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Generally speaking, you may be using a bus wire of 1.5mm and your droppers could be 7/0.2 or 16/0.2. Provided you are using the correct wire and IDC contact size, you won't have a problem. Move outside those sizes or purchase a low cost variant without knowing the range of wire sizes that it will accept and you will have problems like intermittency or cut strands. Either way, reliability may be an issue. Using proper wire strippers means that is not an issue at all. I use something like these and it takes a few seconds. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-38275-Wire-Stripper-1-0-3-2mm/dp/B0001K9U1O/ref=zg_bs_1939061031_34 In terms of wire sizes, 7/0.2 is 24AWG and 16/0.02 is 20 AWG. 1.5mm is 16AWG. Looking at the technical specs for the AWG sizes, it would appear you could use 1.5mm and 16/0.2 (16-20AWG) but not the 7/0.2 with 1.5mm http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/EMDCI/Home/Products/ProductCatalog/~/3M-Scotchlok-Electrical-Run-and-Tap-Connectors?N=5430181+3294245698&rt=rud Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted February 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2015 TLC have 26 Branches Nationwide.Nationwide ??!!!??Sorry to veer o/t but that is so annoying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Brings a whole new meaning to North of Watford…..or should that be Cambridge?…. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted February 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2015 OK, thanks. I understand that for a larger range of sizes, but for bus and dropper wires? One still has to strip the insulation from these wires in order to use the connector you recommend. So, if the wires are of compatible sizes, what is the benefit? I ask, because I have already started using suitcase connectors at one end of my new layout (still at an early stage of construction), at the recommendation of others on this forum, in place of soldering, but you have now made me a bit worried! I have about 70 droppers yet to wire up. You could use a suitcase connector to connect one wire to a 5-way block, and then 4 other droppers directly to the block rather than additional suitcase connectors to the bus. And given dropper wires are thin you could twist 2 or 3 together to fit into one slot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Nationwide ??!!!?? Sorry to veer o/t but that is so annoying. Hands up. Sorry about that. Somehow I'd got it into my head that they had outlets in places N. of the home Counties, like Nottingham etc. Off topic, but a little anecdote. About 6/7 years ago I bought a new UHF TV aerial from TLC. Having looked at different ones in stores and online. The one I bought from TLC and the other one they stocked, were exactly the same make and models as those sold in B&Q. Same packaging, everything. TLC price inc. VAT = £14 (plus something pence) B&Q price inc VAT = £44.95 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted February 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2015 Hands up. Sorry about that. Somehow I'd got it into my head that they had outlets in places N. of the home Counties, like Nottingham etc. Wasn't having a dig at you Ron. Just that claim in the advert touched a nerve. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal10 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 And to add to what RFS said 3 posts earlier, here is what I'm doing with my droppers and the Wago 5-way connectors.. And before anyone asks, the multiple wire holders are a neat thing I found on Conrad's site, probably also on their UK outlet Rapid's site. Early days of relaying my storage yards, so there will be many more droppers, you don't have to be limited to one wire per 'port', they'll take 2 or 3, and I'll be replacing the heavier gauge bus feed with similar lighter gauge, like the droppers, so these Wago blocks could be 10 to 15 way! They are a bit fiddly when you're upside down under the layout, but they're infinitely smaller and neater than any alternative I've used before! Regards, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlyduck Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Wago 5 way connectors 222-415 on Ebay £21 for 50 Incl P&P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandering blue Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 And to add to what RFS said 3 posts earlier, here is what I'm doing with my droppers and the Wago 5-way connectors.. And before anyone asks, the multiple wire holders are a neat thing I found on Conrad's site, probably also on their UK outlet Rapid's site.image.jpg Early days of relaying my storage yards, so there will be many more droppers, you don't have to be limited to one wire per 'port', they'll take 2 or 3, and I'll be replacing the heavier gauge bus feed with similar lighter gauge, like the droppers, so these Wago blocks could be 10 to 15 way! They are a bit fiddly when you're upside down under the layout, but they're infinitely smaller and neater than any alternative I've used before! Regards, Alan Hi Alan. Is that the 211035 cable holder? It's available on the UK Conrad site as well as the German one, (£12 for 100) What they don't give on either site is the max cable size that the strip will hold. It looks like you are using fairly slim droppers, I use 1mm solid core stripped from mains cable, do you think it would fit? The wago 222 connectors seem a good way of installing many droppers off single IDCs on the main bus. There are places under my fiddle yard where the bus cables are long rows of IDCs, oh well, too late now! Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal10 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Hi Phil, Yes, the Conrad cable holders are 211035, as you say, about £12 for 100. The wire I'm using for droppers, is 1mm outside diameter (measured with my digital calliper, then I've just read the label - DOH !) from Maplin it's 10/0.1 TC PVC 0.3R RED (for the red one) - whatever that means, anyhow it's multi-cored, but with the WAGO 222 you just strip the sheath to the right length (there is a guide on the 222 connector !) and stuff it in and close the locking device, wonderful! The dropper wires are a snug push-fit into the Conrad cable holders, so I imagine your 1mm solid copper would be, also. My DCC bus wires are 2.5mm o/d obtained from a local car accessory shop, they fit into the Wago 222 ok. I solder my droppers to a Peco rail connector, and hide the wire behind the rail, - as my layout is in my loft, and runs around the outside of my seating / viewing area, none of the droppers are then visible. Well, that's the theory, when I eventually get round to ballasting! The eagle-eyed amongst our readers may have noticed that my DCC bus wires are Red and Blue, and not as NRMA suggest Red and Black. Major cock-up on my part, - when I started my layout 3 years ago following a David Cameron grant-aided loft insulation, (which revealed a massive area to re-kindle my 40 year love of model railways) I was unaware of NRMA and indeed DCC. One visit to a local exhibition, and a few trips to nearby model shops got me hooked on sound and lights, and I set about creating my own 76th scale version of North West England. Last week on my return from a holiday in Kefalonia (yes, I know it's in Greece, but they are lovely people, and the sun still shines!) I discovered that it was actually hotter in my loft than it was in Greece, hence my post on the 'Musing' area of this forum, re: 'Air Conditioning in the Loft' - which has prompted me to look into ventilation and lighting, otherwise known as a couple of Velux windows. Joiner en-route next Sunday for quote, - watch this space.! So.... In the intervening 3 years, I have installed 3 independent busses, 1)DCC RED + BLUE, 2)16v AC GREEN + YELLOW, and 3)12v DC WHITE + BLUE, each with different colour-pairs(?), except that I have run out of colours as I should have used RED + BLACK for DCC. All is not lost, as I may have to partially dismantle my layout to allow the joiner access to the roof for installation of the Velux's. - Not a major upheaval as I have no real landscaping there yet, just track and a mass of wires, and point motors / servos. I will take that opportunity to re-do my electrics and change my DCC bus to RED + BLACK, as well as extend the flooring so that I have something to lie on when upside down doing work from the underside of the layout boards. Regards, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 The wire I'm using for droppers, is 1mm outside diameter (measured with my digital calliper, then I've just read the label - DOH !) from Maplin it's 10/0.1 TC PVC 0.3R RED (for the red one) - whatever that means, anyhow it's multi-cored... What it means is a wire having ten strands, each of 0.1mm diameter, covered with PVC insulation. Furthermore, this means it is only rated for a current of 0.5A, so may suffer the adverse effects of overheating if you draw too much current through it for an extended length of time, most likely under fault conditions. Better alternatives would be 7/0.2 (1.4A rated) or 16/0.2 (3A rated). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Interesting, Gordon. The cons are: You cannot lay out the “bus” wires first before connecting droppers (because there are no through wires) compared to “suitcase”? Pros: Takes any size? How you described “suitcase” before is that you just have to make sure that you have the correct gauge of wire at the time of purchase. I confess I haven’t tried either system yet - now I’m a little confused........but that’s not difficult... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Abel Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 To add to the discussion (and possibly confusion <sigh>) I went around several times trying to decide what to use. I'd already decided on wire at 14GA for my DCC (and DC lighting) bus and 18GA for the bus to rail/lighting droppers. Here in the US, and I'm SURE in the UK also, suitcase connectors are available in dual sizes, but sometimes it's not so obvious that they ARE available that way, and at about 6-8 cents (about 3-4p??) a piece in bulk of even only 25 at a time - . I've used a couple of hundred 14/18 suitcase connectors now, I'm sure. http://www.ebay.com/itm/120977009193?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I am using them both for the DCC bus and also my DC bus for lighting. Using 14GA as a bus standard and 18GA for any droppers DCC or DC has resulted in a very consistent, and once you have done a few, a very fast method of wiring, I DO especially like not having to strip the insulation for either the bus OR droppers - excepting the soldering to rails, which is the slowest part of the operation... Just an observation, alternative suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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