DCC Concepts decoder issues

[dj_crisp]

Hi 

I have a pair of Heljan 33's, hardwired with express model lights fitted with DCC concepts 4 function decoders.... all was going well until they both decided to no longer work.

 

 - one has lost drive in one direction (lights work)

 - the other has developed a noticable buzz when the lights are on.... It gets noticeably louder when i turn on each funtion output.

 

All have been factory reset with no improvements... and have been coded with a sprog

 

Any ideas??

 

Thanks

Will

[Phil S]

When you chose the Decoder you used, did you check first that its current rating was sufficient for a Heljan Class 33? (Running and Stall Currents) As I recall, the Heljan motors take a relatively large current in comparison to Hornby or Bachmann.  Also, the decoder may have internal protection against overheating which might be resetable - however that is likely to stop operation altogether, and not just in 1 direction.

A precaution to take, with ALL decoder installs, but especially with those using the 8-pin NEM socket - is that, when the plug - pins are pressed 'fully home', they are NOT in contact with metalwork beneath .... a small piece of insulating tape BENEATH the SOCKET is a good precautionary measure... 

Vibration may have resulted in some movement of the plug, which then was able to make contact with unwanted, live metal >> exit decoder.

[dj_crisp]

Thanks!

I haven't checked on whether the current rating is correct - I'll check that out,

I'll be surprised if it's a shorting issue as the decoder is hardwired in and fully insulated in both cases,

 

I do fear the worst here and have had the DCC direct decoders fail on me before (when plugged into a vitrains 37).

[250BOB]

Decoder preferences is a long running issue on RMweb........some people have had very successful experiences with DCC Concepts decoders, and swear by them for performance.

 

All I can do is give you my experiences, which are all bad.........going back 4 years or so.......I must have had half a dozen or more of these decoders, but after 12 months I didnt have any...they had all failed.

 

Replaced them with Lenz Standards and those same locos still running perfectly with no further failures from them.......most of my other locos run Lenz Standards too...and no failures.

 

Just my 2 pennoth, and my own experience of DCC Concepts decoders........Lenz standards are only about £18.00, well thats what I last paid at my local model shop.

 

Bob.

[RFS]

Totally agree with Bob.  I bought two a couple of years back and the first one burnt out before I'd opened the second packet.  The decoder had poor back EMF resulting in a mid-speed surge that was irritating.

 

Lenz Standard+ is my decoder of choice now. It has overload/short circuit protection (unlike DCC Concepts) and I've never had a failure. Plus with the weak Euro they can now be obtained for below £14 from German box-shifters (eg http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Lenz/9-4-0-62718-003001-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html )

 

Although a matter of personal preference, I would not hard-wire a decoder into a loco which has a decoder socket unless absolutely necessary.  Otherwise replacing the decoder is more difficult.

[dj_crisp]

Thanks!

They certainly don't seen very robust! I've struggled with back EMF when I've altered speed curves and noticed large speed jumps so had to simply switch it off.

 

I do like the stay alive feature though. .. does lenz have something similar?

[deadlyduck]

You can put Lenzes power pack onto the Gold 1 not the silver or standard,not sure if you could fit a TCS.Im fitting my locos with them the KA1s these are the business

David

[deadlyduck]

You can put Lenzes power pack onto the Gold 1 not the silver or standard,not sure if you could fit a TCS.Im fitting my locos with them the KA1s these are the business

David

Pressed the wrong button,im used ESU V4 decoders but the problem is that you have to solder the keep alive to very small pads there are 5 close together

[RFS]

Thanks!

They certainly don't seen very robust! I've struggled with back EMF when I've altered speed curves and noticed large speed jumps so had to simply switch it off.

 

I do like the stay alive feature though. .. does lenz have something similar?

 

If you're using Electrofrog points then the need for stay-alive reduces. And especially so with the Heljan 33 as it has pickups on all 4 axles. 

[melmerby]

If you're using Electrofrog points then the need for stay-alive reduces. And especially so with the Heljan 33 as it has pickups on all 4 axles. 

I would go as far as to say if your points are all electrically live and the track is clean, stay alive is no use whatsoever!

 

My locos will crawl through any of my points (Peco Electrofrog code 75) without stalling.

 

Keith

[dj_crisp]

Keith. Thanks that's interesting.

 

When I started out with dcc I tried several decoders (gaugemaster, nce, Bachmann Etc) and noticed the stay alive versions were smoother for all my locos. That was for even with the same dcc concepts decoder with and without stay alive.(clean track, black beetle wheels using a sprog)

 

So bit the bullet and have fitted around 20 of my fleet with them. I can live with the back emf issues but the reliability is disappointing... especially when they've really spent their time on a rolling road! (Layout build is rather slow!)

 

So this is my 5th failure which is why I posted to see if anyone else has this experience. Failures so far are 2x Heljan 33s, Hornby 09, Vitrains 37 and a Bachmann 20.

 

I think it's time try something new

[Jintyman]

Sorry to hear of your problems.
I have a Heljan 47 fitted with an Express models lighting kit and I used the S4SAP 4 function decoder from DCC Concepts, hardwired in. Although this loco is still working perfectly, I have found issue with 2 other locos which have had that decoder fitted.
I have now swapped them for ESU V4.0 Lokpilot decoders now, with no issue at all and superb running.

I also think that the Gaugemaster and Hattons decoders are produced by DCC Concepts, as when I use one on my Sprog, it always comes up as DCC Concepts???

I'm not sure about the new Zen range of decoders they have launched, but I would replace the old S4SAP decoders with the likes of the Lenz or ESU equivalent. I intend to replace my 47 with an ESU at my first opportunity as the running is far better.

Jinty ;-)

[250BOB]

Keith. Thanks that's interesting.

 

When I started out with dcc I tried several decoders (gaugemaster, nce, Bachmann Etc) and noticed the stay alive versions were smoother for all my locos. That was for even with the same dcc concepts decoder with and without stay alive.(clean track, black beetle wheels using a sprog)

 

So bit the bullet and have fitted around 20 of my fleet with them. I can live with the back emf issues but the reliability is disappointing... especially when they've really spent their time on a rolling road! (Layout build is rather slow!)

 

So this is my 5th failure which is why I posted to see if anyone else has this experience. Failures so far are 2x Heljan 33s, Hornby 09, Vitrains 37 and a Bachmann 20.

 

I think it's time try something new

 

Had  you adjusted the CV values 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 on the DCC Concepts decoders prior to them failing.??

[dj_crisp]

Had  you adjusted the CV values 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 on the DCC Concepts decoders prior to them failing.??

Yes and no, The Bachmann 20 and vitrains 37 weren't adjusted at the time and the Vitrains one was fairly dramatic and went up in a puff of smoke!

[gwr5786]

I had a DCC Concepts Zen nano on a Bachmann 04. Being a split chassis it wasn't a straight forward install, but I had run it with a ZTC chip previously - it went pop with a little puff of smoke! Give DCC Concepts their due they did replace it.

[shibushe]

I also have had trouble with DCC Concepts decoders, 3 Infact. lesson learnt. Would not touch them with a bargepole.

[Barry Ten]

I've just tried one for the first time and it blew immediately. I'll put it down to bad luck but I'll see how I get on with the replacements.

[D1056WesternSultan]

I've just tried one for the first time and it blew immediately. I'll put it down to bad luck but I'll see how I get on with the replacements.

I fitted a Zen ultra small nano with stay alive to a Bachmann prairie and it blew after 2 minutes on the layout.  Hattons replace it without question.  the replacement decoder is still in it's packet and the loco is back in its box for now.

[Sunnysa]

I have been using DCC Concepts decoders for yrs with no problems what so ever.

 

I did have one S4SA fail ( let the magic smoke out)but that was due to my own carelessness.

 

 I will admit there is a quirk in the speed steps if 28 step speed curve is used I E loco will lurch at a given speed step (not the same SS on each decoder) but that is easy enough to fix.

 

 I have had TCS decoders do the same thing.

 

 I do have some Zen decoders but have yet to fit and operate them.

 

 Cheers

 

 Ian

[ColinK]

This topic has got me worried. I fitted a zen decoder in a Bachmann 03, it ran so badly at the last exhibition - either not starting or stopping suddenly - that it had to be replaced. To be fair, it could be the loco rather than the decoder, it wasn't pick-ups as the cab light was on all the time. The chassis will go under my 07 in time.

[250BOB]

This topic has got me worried. I fitted a zen decoder in a Bachmann 03, it ran so badly at the last exhibition - either not starting or stopping suddenly - that it had to be replaced. To be fair, it could be the loco rather than the decoder, it wasn't pick-ups as the cab light was on all the time. The chassis will go under my 07 in time.

 

Be interesting to know what you find when you fit an alternative decoder.??

[ColinK]

Be interesting to know what you find when you fit an alternative decoder.??

Had a break from decorating last night and took the 03 apart, removed the decoder and reinstalled the blanking plate. You can all relax, its a mechanical problem in the loco, not the decoder. Sometimes it starts, sometimes it dosen't, if I run it slowly, it soon comes to a halt. I guess the problem is something to do with the coupling rods, but I'm not sure how to fix it.