MarkC Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 But also very truthful. There is an old marketing saying 'Perception is reality', so in that spirit I looked up MickLNER's J71 references. And yes, those flanges do need to be thinned down. I don't know about you but I've seen all sorts of qualities of models, on here; wonderful, good, indifferent and downright awful. Yet all of them attract lauditory comments! I sometimes wonder if the commentators are actually looking at the same thing as I am. Now I would never advocate anyone being insulting or offensive (that's a crock of c--p) but a realistic observation is worth reading - positive or negative. So, thanks Mick and I've just spent an hour fettling the seating of those castings. Cheers Mike All very true . I for one thoroughly enjoy your build threads, Mike. Thanks to you, and of course to Arthur for his wonderful kits Regards Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 then glue the castings onto the boiler!!! !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 All very true . I for one thoroughly enjoy your build threads, Mike. Thanks to you, and of course to Arthur for his wonderful kits Regards Mark Mark, Many thanks for the kind words. I must confess that I thoroughly enjoy doing these test builds and it is testament to Arthur's skill as a kit designer that every one of these test builds has produced a finished and working model. So, after a bit of fettling of the chimney, chimney and dome flanges and the seating of the valve cover, I think they are now about right; mind you the camera will soon prove (or disprove) that. I suppose my reason for glueing the castings onto the boiler is, principally, that I can always remove them quite easily if I need to. Just a quick immersion in hot water softens the Araldite enough to remove them. The smokebox door casting is not yet fixed in place until the smokebox door handles have been fitted. The smokebox doorknob, at the edge of the smokebox door, is a Gibson short handrail knob, sunk into a hole in the smokebox door so that only the rounded portion of the handrail knob actually shows. You know those Victorian engineers managed to make even the most humble shunting locomotives aesthetically just right. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Now almost there on this J71 body. As you can probably appreciate doing these test builds, with the need to check, assess and report/discuss any issues, does protract the build slightly, especially if modified parts need to be incorporated. So, this build has taken slightly longer than it would with all parts proven but then that's the challenge and that's the joy of doing these test builds. So the tank front and cab handrails have been fitted, the handrail stanchions for the smokebox and boiler have been fitted and a spare piece of .33 mm wire inserted just to check alignment of the smokebox/boiler handrail stanchions. It is worth mentioning that on this model, as on most of these North Eastern locos, where the smokebox is a larger diameter than the boiler, then two sizes of handrail knob are used - short for the smokebox handrail fixings; medium for the boiler fixings. This should ensure that the resulting handrail is parallel to both smokebox and boiler. The front steel/timber/steel 'sandwich' buffer beam has also been fitted. As with the J77's this was very much an afterthought, being fitted to these locomotives mid way through their lives, hence this buffer beam protruded beyond the front footplate, which was not extended to cover it. The sanding operating rod assemblies are really very fine and quite small, so do need care; but the result is well worth the effort. The top lamp iron also requires some measure of care but, again, the effort is well worth it. With the fitting of the footplate steps, then now the model must sit on its cradle to avoid any distortion of the footsteps. So the last footsteps to add, a few body details and the cab interior detailing, then on to the underframe. As a postscript to this posting, when I first rendered this digital photo that front footplate appeared to dip, very slightly, from the front of the tanks. Checking this with the steel rule the footplate is straight, so this appearing to dip slightly is a function of the photo and not the model. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Now almost there on this J71 body. As you can probably appreciate doing these test builds, with the need to check, assess and report/discuss any issues, does protract the build slightly, especially if modified parts need to be incorporated. So, this build has taken slightly longer than it would with all parts proven but then that's the challenge and that's the joy of doing these test builds. This is a protracted build? How long is a normal one then? Looks to me like you're going flat out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted March 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2015 The next stage of the build might be delayed as I has to confess that I cannot find the chassis etches! They must be around somewhere but a (fairly) thorough search has not revealed anything. If they don't surface in the couple of days I may have to resort to getting a new set. My apologies to MIke and to all eagerly awaiting the next phase. ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 This is a protracted build? How long is a normal one then? Looks to me like you're going flat out. A normal build would probably be around three quarters as long as this one. I'm really not that quick, when one looks at a certain Mr Jazz, here on this topic area. He can build a complete 7 mm large tender loco in two or three weeks, and build them to the very highest quality. Astounding, just astounding. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Not a test build, but I built my J73 in a week's worth of evenings (not including motor/gearbox). They really are very nice kits to put together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Not a test build, but I built my J73 in a week's worth of evenings (not including motor/gearbox). They really are very nice kits to put together. Now that certainly beats my pace; I took around three weeks to build the J73, though I did do it alongside the test build of the A6. I do have a J24 (another of Arthur's kits, though this is an established and proven one) to build, so I'll see how long that one takes to complete. It will certainly be good to have a full set of instructions to follow, though I think I am probably now fully 'au fait' with Arthur's design standards and methods. And I'll certainly echo your comment about their being very nice kits to put together. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 While waiting for some amended parts, from Arthur, I decided to start this one. This is Arthur's J24 kit,introduced a year or two ago and with a full set of instructions. This might be the start of my redressing the balance between tank locos and tender locos on Hessle Haven, as the current count is eleven tank locos and six tender locos. This represents about six an a half hours work, from initially 'opening the box'. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I've got one of them too - looking forward to seeing this, though slightly depressed that i can manage nowhere near that rate of progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 The next stage of the build might be delayed as I has to confess that I cannot find the chassis etches! They must be around somewhere but a (fairly) thorough search has not revealed anything. If they don't surface in the couple of days I may have to resort to getting a new set. My apologies to MIke and to all eagerly awaiting the next phase. ArthurK Well the chassis etch did turn up but not quite as expected. Still I can now progress with the underframe and have assembled both mainframes with their high level axleboxes and hornguides, followed by fitting the two compensating beams, which act on the middle and rear coupled wheelsets. The mainframe springs are now two layers of etch, both full thickness (0.018") which does produce a very realistically chunky spring under the driving wheels. Both coupling rods have also been assembled, using the articulated set provided. A set of rigid rods is also provided, as an altenative, for those building a rigid chassis. So a quick fit of the wheels just to check that the model rides at the right height and, far more truthfully, to allow a photo to be taken. It's strange how the J71 seems to have wheels which were too large for it (4' 7 1/4") while the J72 and J77 had the smaller 4' 1 1/4" wheels. The wheels fitted to this are Gibson 4' 7 1/2" 14 spoke NER, so are a scale 1/4" too large; guess we can live with that! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 And a 'group photo' of some of the ex NER shunting locomotive classes - J71, J77 and J73. The J73 was built a couple of years ago; the others are still under development as kits, though the J77's (Worsdell cab and Fletcher cab versions) are pretty close to release. Just needs a J72 to complete the set? As a good friend of mine remarked, when he saw the line of brass locos awaiting painting 'By heck, lad, you've a bit o' brass there!!' And I'm still wondering what the hell I'm going to do with all of these shunting locos - and there's another LNER T1 (52F models, not Arthur's), two more J77's and an N10 in the 'waiting painting line'. For anyone who knew the railways of Hull, in the 1950's, they might remember that there was a regular Saturday afternoon 'crocodile' of shunting locos, which came through the town, on their way from the docks to Dairycoates shed for boiler washout, and which could number quite a few, all coupled together. Might now be able to produce a fair representation of that weekly event! They may only have been humble shunting locomotives but they were still lovely things!! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Mike why did you think of the T1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Mike why did you think of the T1? Mick, Is that 'why did I think of the T1?' or 'what did I think of the T1?'. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Sorry crap typing , what did you think of the kit ?, also is there a build thread on here or elsewhere, as I am asking again !! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Sorry crap typing , what did you think of the kit ?, also is there a build thread on here or elsewhere, as I am asking again !! Thanks Mick, First thing to say is that apart from the old Little Engines white metal kit (is that still in production?) this is the only kit available for this prototype and there is no r-t-r model of it either. Given that only fifteen of these locos were built and that they were based in very specific locations where very large marshalling yard complexes, handling very heavy trains, existed (Hull, Selby, Teeside, Tyne Dock) then it is probably not surprising that no r-t-r model exists. That said apart from a Southern Railway class, these were the only 4-8-0's in the country. I built the P4/EM version of this kit, since which time an 'OO' version has been introduced. The kit is more expensive than a comparable kit from Arthur - the LNER A6 for instance - but does contain everything necessary to produce the model except for the wheels and motor. So wire, nuts and screws, handrail knobs, top hat bearings and a 54:1 gearbox are all included, as well as the etchings and castings, hence a direct price comparison is difficult. Where alternatives existed on the prototype i.e. different boilers, different cab rooves, then all alternatives are included. Incidentally all of the boilers are ready rolled and they are half etched with slots for the boiler bands, which does make fitting these bands much easier. I would question the use of a fairly heavy gauge brass for the loco superstructure as this does lose some sharpness on the bends and also makes forming flares (the bunker rear sheet) more difficult. The chassis, certainly on the P4/EM version is a fold up arrangement, which obviates the need for a chassis assembly jig and the compensation mechanism, using two pairs of compensating beams and top hat bearings, is very innovative. I didn't like the use of cheesehead screws with their heads clearly visible on the mainframes, as the beam pivots, so devised a workaround which was invisible but that is my preference. The instructions are very clear and well produced, though I did have to clarify a couple of things with Peter Stanger - 52F's proprietor. I did add some details to the kit, based on experience of working with Arthur Kimber, who is now something of an expert in North Eastern Railway locomotive construction practice but, again, that was my preference. I hope I have been entirely fair to 52F in this very brief assessment and, short of scratch building a T1 which I have done, I would certainly recommend this kit to anyone who wants to build what is an unusual and very impressive prototype. Regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 I've got one of them too - looking forward to seeing this, though slightly depressed that i can manage nowhere near that rate of progress. Steve, At the risk of embarassing him, I would recommend anyone building etched kits to read the thread posted by Jazz, on this topic area. He builds 7mm kits, very quickly and to the very highest quality, but his tips on how he goes about their construction are equally aplicable to 4mm kits. What comes across, loud and clear from his postings, is the way in which he prepares for his builds; the sequence in which he builds and the general organisation of the build process. I've never met this guy, nor had any direct communication with him but I have adopted many of his approaches, especially cutting out parts in advance, marking the parts and marshalling the parts, ready for construction. Just adopting these principles has made a tremendous difference to the speed and accuracy with which I can now build 4mm kits. I use a separate plastic container, clearly labelled, for each kit (I normally use the plastic container from Carte D'Or ice cream), into which goes everything that has been cut out and dressed ready for assembly. Things like assembled brake hangars, assembled rods, etc are all placed in the container, ready for later fitting. This saves all of the searching for lost or mislaid bits and pieces and keeps everything associated with each kit, in the same place. I hope I'm not preaching, here, but anyway read some of Jazz's (apologies for using his user id; I don't know his name) most recent postings; they really are very informative. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Jazz is Ken, Mike. I've met him a couple of times at Telford and he's as charmign and helpful in the flesh as on the screen. I can recommend a trip to Telford (or any other O gauge show) for a change - very different atmosphere to the 4mm or mixed shows I usually go to and, as I don't do 7mm, usually a very cheap weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Jazz is Ken, Mike. I've met him a couple of times at Telford and he's as charmign and helpful in the flesh as on the screen. I can recommend a trip to Telford (or any other O gauge show) for a change - very different atmosphere to the 4mm or mixed shows I usually go to and, as I don't do 7mm, usually a very cheap weekend. Jonathan, Many thanks for the info. Unfortunately Telford is a distance from Scarborough, where I now live, but I'll try and make the trip to Telford; it would be good to put a face to Jazz, if only to thank him. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share Posted April 18, 2015 A bit more work done on the J24, with the boiler rolled and soldered up and the firebox has been shaped and checked against the frames on the rear of the footplate. I decided to leave the fitting of the firebox flange plates until the boiler and firebox were finally fitted onto the footplate and into the frames. The smokebox framing has also been folded and soldered up, with an 8BA nut fixed on the horizontal portion of the smokebox framing, for fixing the body to the chassis. The boiler also has an 8 BA nut fixed to the front former to allow the boiler and smokebox to be tightly joined. I still have to add the two layers of smokebox wrapper and the brass ring between the boiler and smokebox. Nothing fixed on the boiler/smokebox, as yet; the whole sub-assembly just stood in place on the footplate. I normally don't fix the boiler/smokebox in place until everything has been added to that sub-assembly - wash out plugs, handrail stanchions, chimney, dome and safety valves, boiler bands, etc. It is much easier to do this boiler/smokebox detailing with the boiler/smokebox separate from the rest of the superstructure. So this represents around a further three hours of 'grind and toil' for the boiler and smokebox; now totalling around nine and a half hours on this build, so far. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Apart from the backhead, which can't be seen in this photo, some small castings on the front splashers and the buffers and drawgear, the loco body is now complete. The chassis is almost competed, with just one set of brakes and the brake linkage to add. Now all running clearances have to be checked to ensure no snagging on the splasher insides, etc. The next job is to assemble and fit the gearbox and motor. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 And the J24 is making slow progress as well, though the boiler, smokebox and cab roof are not yet fixed in place. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Another of these 'group' photos, with the J73 built three years ago and some of the models built over the last few months. There is another A6, which was a commission build, and a T1 which are not in this picture. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 In one of the postings, above, I mentioned that only the J72 was missing, forgetting that I did a Bachmann conversion a few years ago. So, standing on the up slow at Hessle Haven, with a T1 and an A6 is J72 69003 of Hull (well, where else?) You might have gathered that I am quite a fan of the locomotives of the North Eastern!! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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