mikemeg Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Well, fresh from building three J77's, a set of test etches for Arthur's latest development dropped through my letterbox, yesterday. This in the shape of an etched kit for the NER Class E; LNER J71. So, yet another tank locomotive for Hessle Haven! Introduced in 1886, some 120 of these 0-6-0 tank locomotives were built up to 1895, with 81 surviving into BR days; the last survivors being withdrawn in the early 1960's. Based at many of the principal sheds of the old North Eastern, with the later NER Class E1's - LNER J72 - these two classes were a common feature of the railways of the North East up until their replacement by the 350 hp diesel shunters. The design of this kit owes much to Arthur's recently developed kits for the various forms of the J77, though this locomotive is somewhat more diminutive than the J77. So I won't bore anyone with photographs of the sheets of etches but will detail the build of this locomotive for anyone who is interested. The kit follows many of Arthur's 'design standards' with the body being etched in .012" brass and the chassis and motion being etched in .018" nickel silver. The first stage is the cutting out and assembly of the footplate, which is a two part etching with a fully etched lower section and a half etched upper section. The lower footplate section contains the valances, which are only around 1 mm deep and which must be very carefully folded to avoid distorting the footplate, I normally do this by holding a steel ruler against the footplate, butted up to the bend line, and then very gradually teasing the valance to the perpendicular against the edge of the retaining steel ruler, using the rounded end of another steel ruler. It is important not to stretch the valance and to avoid any kinks in either the valance or the footplate. Also there is some push out rivet detail on the valances, so flattening this should be avoided, when folding up the valances. Once the valances have been folded,then the buffer beams can be folded to the perpendicular, again trapping the footplate against a flat surface to avoid any distortion. Finally, the cab splasher upstands are folded up to the perpendicular. The half etched top section of the footplate should be treated with care, especially when removing the etching tabs. I normally use a quite fine and well worn needle file for this and always file parallel to the piece, never across it. Once the etching tabs have been removed, then the half etched rivets can be pushed out with a compass point. I do this on a sheet of cardboard to prevent the point pushing right through the rivet. The two sections of the footplate can then be soldered together, after which the front splashers can be formed and fitted. These front splashers are a very prominent feature of the J71 and it is well worth the time to ensure that the curves on the splasher tops exactly match those on the upstands and that all joints are square and tight. These curves are formed just using finger pressure but done quite slowly. I also solder these splashers up on the imside and the outside, to fill any gaps, and then clean off any excess solder, on the outside, using files and fine emery paper. So that's where I'm up to after about four hours work. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 This is 4mm, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted March 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2015 All my kits are 4mm scale, suitable for OO, EM or P4. I have been asked to scale them up to 7mm but so far I have resisted than step! ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 One of the features of North Eastern tank locomotives was their cab cut outs, which were almost always rectangular with rounded corners, with beading around the edge. This beading would normally protrude around 4.5" into the cab entrance and would form the top fastening of the cab door handrails. Arthur provides small etched strips, with a slot etched into them, from which to form this beading. With care, fitting this beading is not difficult but I have found that it is advisable to form the beading into its correct shape before attempting to solder it into the cab cut out. I do this by first marking the centre point of the top of the cab cut out (I use a fine red marker pen) and the centre point of the beading strip. I also locate and use a suitable circular former of the same diameter as the rounded corners of the cab cut out - in this instance the stock of a watchmaker's screwdriver. By locating the beading strip's centre point on the centre point of the cab cut out, the strip can then be bent at a shaped right angle at the appropriate point. The locations of each of the rounded corners is similarly determined and formed until the strip is shaped as per the photo below. Any slight discrepancies in spacing can then be adjusted when the beading strip is soldered into place. This soldering is done with the side assembly held up by pieces of scrap 0.012" brass, to allow the centrally placed slot in the cab beading to engage with the cut out. Sounds more complex than it is. And yes, I always burnish every brass or nickel silver component (with the trusty glass fibre brush) after cutting out and removal of the etching tabs, prior to fitting it to the model; its just a habit now! But I do get through a hell of a lot of refills for the glass fibre brush!!!! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 In between doing the various activities on the J71, A6 number 69791 now approaches completion. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Both sides of the loco superstructure have now been folded up, with the cab cut-out beading fitted and with the side tanks filled with sheet lead, to provide adhesive weight. After tack soldering both sides into place, the cab front has been assembled, from the two layers of etch, and then soldered to the sides. Now this begins to look like a locomotive. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbles Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 For burnishing wire wool in various grades has its uses. You don't get fibre in your fingers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 But I do get through a hell of a lot of refills for the glass fibre brush!!!! Actually wire wool is not much good. It is too abrasive - especially on soft brass. also the broken iron filings play havoc with anything remotely magnetic. The best solution is Garyflex blocks (BJ) is responsible for making me a convert a few years ago and I now use them (or more precisely bits off them) and only occasionally resort to glass fibre brushes. You will still leave a trail of grades of sand (or whatever is in them) and rubber but that is easy to sweep up or dust off. Despite the LNER (just that I can't follow every company) origin this does look like an interesting addition to North Eastern Kits. Is this a pre release build? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted March 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2015 Kenton Yes this is a pre-release build. There are a number of corrections still to be done. Mike's builds are a very useful check on my kits but sometimes he has to resort to a little scratch building when I get it wrong. But both my own and Mike's builds help to ensure the when a new kit is released the bugs have been ironed out. ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Look like an interesting kit, a 7mm version would be nice. The earlier references on cleaning brass, I've used wire wool from Liberon 0000 grade which doesn't damage the surface of the metal and scotch brite pads and disc. Both products are good for pre-cleaning prior to painting. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Many thanks to those contributors who have detailed their own preferences for burnishing brass. As Arthur has said, this is a trial build, using etches not yet fully poven. As a matter of course I don't raise any queries or issues on here, which I may raise with Arthur as the build progresses, though, of course, there is the odd problem from time to time, but that's all part of the development process. In general, these test etches are quite remarkably accurate and go together very well; requiring only a minimum of modification, alteration or resorting to scratch building. Anyway, I do enjoy this process of trialling and developing. The boiler and smokebox have now both been rolled and assembled, though not yet finally joined together. The boilers on the J71 and the J72 were slightly less than 4' 0" in diameter, so these need to be rolled tight to that diameter (16 mm). Attempting to 'squeeze' the rolled boiler, when soldering, from a larger diameter will simply result in the soldered boiler springing apart at some stage, especially as there is only a single boiler former which is fitted to the front of the boiler to carry the nut for fixing the boiler and smokebox together. On the production versions, of these kits, Arthur does supply the boiler wrapper ready rolled. Similarly the cab and bunker rear have been assembled though, again, not yet fixed to the body. When doing these trial builds, there is almost an implicit sequence which is followed :- Are all of the parts, for a sub-assembly, present on the etch sheet, i.e boiler and smokebox? Does the sub assembly go together properly and dimensionally accurately i.e. the boiler and smokebox. Does the sub assembly fit properly into the superstructure? As an example of this the boiler, on this model, is actually narrower in diameter than the gap between the side tanks, by about 0.65 mm each side (about 2" scaled up). Now I've never seen a North Eastern tank locomotive with that sort of gap between the tanks and the boiler, so I queried it. Arthur, of course, has the General Arrangement drawing and confirms that there is, indeed, such a gap. In fact the J72 has an exactly similar gap between its boiler and the side tanks. Anyway, once the various sub-assemblies have been put together, they are then checked for overall integrity, with an e-mail back to Arthur detailing any issues or just saying 'everything with this section, is OK'. Can you imagine trying to do this process remotely - Arthur and I live on opposite sides of the country - without the benefit of e-mail, .jpg files and digital photography; they are essential technologies to the process? Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 The cab rear has now been fixed into place after adding the internal sandboxes, locker, coal gate and the window guard irons. I normally assemble everything to the cab rear, as a complete sub-assembly,before fitting the cab rear into the superstructure; much easier than trying to add these components into the confines of the cab. Similarly, the bunker rear has been formed up, with the flare, and then soldered into the body. The coal rails have also been folded and fitted to the top of the bunker. The cab roof, which is formed from two layers of etch, was rolled in the boiler roller to achieve a consistent curve, and then both layers were soldered together. The actual positioning of the cab roof is achieved by soldering a box to the underside of the cab roof. This box then engages on the cab front and rear, as well as the roof supports on the cab sides, to position the roof. Finally, the cabside doors have been fitted into place. Now for the detailng of the boiler and the addition of various other details. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 All my kits are 4mm scale, suitable for OO, EM or P4. I have been asked to scale them up to 7mm but so far I have resisted than step! ArthurK Go on Arthur you know you want to really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Mike Is the roof fixed or removable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Mike, it is looking really good. It makes me want to finish the Mainly trains version I have sitting at home and throw a Highlevel chassis that has a bad problem with one quartering on one wheel. How the one side is out I have no idea. Chassis2éd, Good quatering on the axle!!! If I find that gremlin.... it wont be healthy for it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Mike Is the roof fixed or removable? Mick, At the moment, the roof is removable. I still have to add the backhead, brake standard and loco crew so the roof will remain removable until these are all added and until all of the painting in the cab is done. It is a tight fit into the cab sides/front and rear so is self retaining. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Having formed, rolled and fitted the brass ring which forms the join between the boiler and the smokebox and as a package of castings arrived in the post, today, I've just sat the chimney onto the smokebox to see how much fettling of the chimney seating will be necessary. Answer is not much at all. Arthur's brass castngs are very fine and really do enhance the models. I must remember to fill the holes for the clack valves in the boiler wrapper, as this model will represent a J71 in its 1950 condition! So now it does begin to resemble a locomotive. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 With the addition of the boiler bands, which are now etched in nickel silver and are much thinner, then another check on the seating of the chimney and now the dome before I start to fix the boiler to the smokebox and then glue the castings onto the boiler. Still time to rectify anything which isn't quite right. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Maybe the photos ? The chimney looks very thick around its girth with a heavy looking base flange, similar problem with the dome to a lesser degree ? This is when compared to photos of the actual Locos here http://www.lner.info/locos/J/j71.shtml Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted March 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2015 I have measured several of the brass chimneys. They are all the same minimum diameter at 4.6mm. The quoted diameter is 4' 1 1/2" or 4.5mm so yes it might be consider fat by just 0.1mm. I don't think that I am going to worry too much about that!!! ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 The camera is cruel on occasion! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Look like an interesting kit, a 7mm version would be nice. The earlier references on cleaning brass, I've used wire wool from Liberon 0000 grade which doesn't damage the surface of the metal and scotch brite pads and disc. Both products are good for pre-cleaning prior to painting. Simon Big Jim does (or at least did) a kit for a J71 in 7mm scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Maybe the photos ? The chimney looks very thick around its girth with a heavy looking base flange, similar problem with the dome to a lesser degree ? This is when compared to photos of the actual Locos here http://www.lner.info/locos/J/j71.shtml Those seatings will be reduced in thickness, once the glue (Araldite), fixing them, has set hard. With the brass seatings I use a very fine eliptical needle file and just gently reduce the thickness of the seating. With the white metal seatings, the glass fibre brush will very effectively reduce the thickness of the seatings. With any casting, brass or white metal, it is very difficult to reproduce the fineness of the prototype seatings while still preserving the integrity of the casting. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 The camera is cruel on occasion! But also very truthful. There is an old marketing saying 'Perception is reality', so in that spirit I looked up MickLNER's J71 references. And yes, those flanges do need to be thinned down. I don't know about you but I've seen all sorts of qualities of models, on here; wonderful, good, indifferent and downright awful. Yet all of them attract lauditory comments! I sometimes wonder if the commentators are actually looking at the same thing as I am. Now I would never advocate anyone being insulting or offensive (that's a crock of c--p) but a realistic observation is worth reading - positive or negative. So, thanks Mick and I've just spent an hour fettling the seating of those castings. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Worth every minute as well Mike , I am sure it will be a cracking result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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