The Engine Shed

[pom-pom]

Really It's blindingly obvious, What are boys interested in most? Football. Here is the chance to provide little Johnny with something that He'll identify with and show his friends. If it was me I would have a range of teams available and include a football shirt as well, maybe even turn up at the stadiums with a circle of track in the back of a van. And that's why it's in the RAILROAD range, Price and robustness.

 

Or for older football fans maybe if Hornby brought out the B17 in super-detail, LNER livery with the Group Standard 4200 gallon tender... i.e., the 'footballer' variants then maybe that would shift better...

[No Decorum]

The LNER version with the large tender would appeal to me. Luckily, I don’t care much for football. The problem with the “Footballers” is that for every fan who wants one named after his club, there are many more who wouldn’t touch it. Everton fans (straying into dangerous territory here) would probably prefer a Great Eastern one.

[Ian Hargrave]

I’m going to buck the emerging trend here. Placing heavy emphasis on the comparative prices, I think Hornby has done well with this. The Engine Shed doesn’t specifically say that there will be no traction tyres but it seems to hint at that. The old model has been brought up to date mechanically and I dare say that many people will be attracted by the price. I don’t usually go for Railroad stuff but even so, I might be tempted.

 

Three-pole skew-wound motor? I hope Hornby has sourced a supply of consistently good ones.

The 3-pole fuelled Railroad/hybrid models are a curate's egg. .Some like the D o G, 9F Crosti, the semi-fat Hall and R3207 Cock Of The North seem to have a struggle with identity and fall between both stools...main range and Railroad. I know dire things are uttered here about the 3 pole motor but I have to say that I for one have no problem so far.

I find the announcement of this latest B17 curious and I do take on board what has been posted about tha fan club appeal and the bargain price. But really....has there not already been an over production of a model of this particular prototype ? Obviously,Hornby think not and one hopes their market research bears fruit and meets with a better response than their recent resurrection of the D49. We shall see...

[toboldlygo]

I think the biggest reason why the B17's that have been discounted because of poor sales, is Hornby not doing enough research as to what variations of the B17 would sell.

 

A few observations from my limited knowledge of them...

 

No Late Crest version of those variants with smaller tender - a fair number did carry it.

 

Wrong Boiler choice for BR modellers - only handful weren't rebuilt with the 100A Boiler (B17/6) until late in to their British Rail life.

 

No Westinghouse Pump fitted versions.

 

Oh and the 4,200gl tender is missing it's lamp irons

Edited November 4, 2016 by toboldlygo

[Ian Hargrave]

I think the biggest reason why the B17's that have been discounted because of poor sales, is Hornby not doing enough research as to what variations of the B17

Good point. The second LNER version arrives in virtually identical format with GE short tender.No variation here.Then wartime black which seems to be in vogue atm..I am not suggesting the streamlined pair though.

[Ozexpatriate]

I think this does show the confusion of Hornby.  Why do you want a B17 in the Railroad range?   If dedicated enthusiast wouldn't you go for the main range one. Why do you need , and go the the expense ,of retooling a B17 for the Railroad Range while you already have a main range one?   Is it that there are lots of people thinking the main range one is just too expensive and that they can only go for Railroad one?  I get Flying Scotsman, Mallard and Tornado all in Railroad range , but how many kids will say I really need a B17?

Why on earth are Hornby about to produce a Railroad B17 when the "Full Fat" version is a slow seller???? Although an absolutely superb model, they don't sell in great numbers, as evidenced by Hatton's and the two variants they still have in stock in large quantities. The only saving grace are the imminent release of the B12 and 2017 Merchant Navy.

Perhaps you've answered your own question?

 

The current full-fat, full-price version may be a slow seller. Perhaps a new Railroad standard model at about half the price will sell better?

 

Lots of people keep complaining about prices. Well, here's your chance to get something massively cheaper. Let's see if people want cheaper, lower-detailed stuff, or higher-priced, hi fi stuff.

I'd say Hornby is evidently listening to all the people who say that detailed models are too expensive and too fragile. Plus they know better than us which direction their costs are going. I'd say this is an attempt to get ahead of the price-increase curve.

 

I wonder if we'll see many more reissues of the high-end B17.

[toboldlygo]

I'd say Hornby is evidently listening to all the people who say that detailed models are too expensive and too fragile. Plus they know better than us which direction their costs are going. I'd say this is an attempt to get ahead of the price-increase curve.

 

I wonder if we'll see many more reissues of the high-end B17.

 

I think with the Railroad B17, you will see a lot of spare engine and tender bodies cropping up on a certain auction site, as people who've put time and effort into detailing their earlier Tender Drive B17's swap the chassis over.

[Ian Hargrave]

Really It's blindingly obvious, What are boys interested in most? Football. Here is the chance to provide little Johnny with something that He'll identify with and show his friends. If it was me I would have a range of teams available and include a football shirt as well, maybe even turn up at the stadiums with a circle of track in the back of a van. And that's why it's in the RAILROAD range, Price and robustness.

Is your proverbial Little Johnny still around then ? It's a nice romantic image,I grant you but I fear he may be already addicted to a virtual reality train on his I-pad.Great idea though which hearkens back to the Binns Road boys of yore.

[micklner]

Perhaps you've answered your own question?

 

The current full-fat, full-price version may be a slow seller. Perhaps a new Railroad standard model at about half the price will sell better?

 

Lots of people keep complaining about prices. Well, here's your chance to get something massively cheaper. Let's see if people want cheaper, lower-detailed stuff, or higher-priced, hi fi stuff.

 

Paul

 

But its not half price when the far better version can be picked up for £74 or even cheaper via ebay. Cant see the logic of producing it , for kids? how many people will spend that sort of money for their kids on what they will regard as a toy train ? Personally no idea.

 

As already said do a decent LNER Footballer version and it would sell.

Edited November 4, 2016 by micklner

[Ozexpatriate]

Really It's blindingly obvious, What are boys interested in most? Football. Here is the chance to provide little Johnny with something that He'll identify with and show his friends. If it was me I would have a range of teams available and include a football shirt as well, maybe even turn up at the stadiums with a circle of track in the back of a van. And that's why it's in the RAILROAD range, Price and robustness.

I do agree that this is Hornby's thinking in choosing the B17 for "price reduction" in the Railroad range. This is a better approach than what they did with the bungled main range v. Railroad range GWR Hall.

 

Is your proverbial Little Johnny still around then ? It's a nice romantic image,I grant you but I fear he may be already addicted to a virtual reality train on his I-pad.Great idea though which hearkens back to the Binns Road boys of yore.

I'm afraid Ian is right here. I don't see ten-year old boys lining up to buy a "Footballer" with their team's name.

 

Now if Hornby had marketed this a little better - like having say magnetic snap on name plates and numbers that could easily be changed without scuffing off numbers, transfers and repainting this might not be a bad strategy for the B17 - they could offer 'your choice of any team*' perhaps with a membership to the collectors club?

 

* Whether or not the LNER ran such a locomotive.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Ozexpatriate

[Pint of Adnams]

How many more older accurate but tender-driven locomotives are there in the discontinued range that Hornby could apply the same principle of re-engineering to?

 

And, as has been suggested earlier, there's still a back-catalogue of acquired rolling stock models that would benefit from a little updating and fill some obvious gaps in the Polling lists.

[rovex]

If the photo from earlier is not related to the B17 then does it relate to something not yet announced.

 

Oh no what have I done I'm about to be overwhelmed by a further mountain of froth. Help I can't breath. Arrrgghh.

 

And the rest is silence

Edited November 4, 2016 by rovex

[MGR Hooper!]

On a happy note, incase this was overlooked...I think Hornby do listen to people!
 

Obviously like with all pre-production samples we receive there are inevitably things that need changing and altering slightly. You’ll notice that the green on the wheels is slightly different to that of the green on the body and also some the nameplates and running number's placement needs some attention so that it fits exactly between the yellow lines. However, do not fret, our team in the factory are aware of these and a few other minor errors and are making the changes as you read this.

[Ian Hargrave]

I do agree that this is Hornby's thinking in choosing the B17 for "price reduction" in the Railroad range. This is a better approach than what they did with the bungled main range v. Railroad range GWR Hall.

 

 

I'm afraid Ian is right here. I don't see ten-year old boys lining up to buy a "Footballer" with their team's name.

 

Now if Hornby had marketed this a little better - like having say magnetic snap on name plates and numbers that could easily be changed without scuffing off numbers, transfers and repainting this might not be a bad strategy for the B17 - they could offer 'your choice of any team*' perhaps with a membership to the collectors club?

 

* Whether or not the LNER ran such a locomotive.

But of course they did. 1678 Burton Albion regularly worked the beer train to York in 1947 .

[Ozexpatriate]

But of course they did. 1678 Burton Albion regularly worked the beer train to York in 1947 .

¿Que?

Edited November 4, 2016 by Ozexpatriate

[Ian Hargrave]

¿Que?

The Burton to York beer train ran via the GC main line and was always a turn for an LNER,later ER loco.That part IS fact.The rest is........

[Ozexpatriate]

That part IS fact.The rest is........

No argument from me. I was/am struggling with context.

[autocoach]

I didn't realize the original Merchant Navy had the the railway name SOUTHERN on the tender in a bright red raised plaque. How long did this last? Aesthetically it does not please me and as I am buying this model for shelf display duty, I will have to reconsider my pre-order choice.  

[Pint of Adnams]

I didn't realize the original Merchant Navy had the the railway name SOUTHERN on the tender in a bright red raised plaque. How long did this last? Aesthetically it does not please me and as I am buying this model for shelf display duty, I will have to reconsider my pre-order choice.  

21C1 'Channel Packet', the first of the class, had the ownership 'SOUTHERN', the number '21C1' and name 'CHANNEL PACKET' including class description etc. all applied in cast plates to respectively, the tender and smokebox door, the cabside and below the smokebox at the front, and the air-smoothed casing above the central driving wheel. In each case the background colour was yellow. See p133 of 'The Big Four in Colour 1935-50'. 

 

Later photographs taken post-war but pre-BR of other members of the class show the plates on the tender and cabside to be replaced by painted on lettering/numbering.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Pint of Adnams

[Pint of Adnams]

So a Railroad B17 is due for release in October 2017. I wonder where 'Liverpool' will be in the table then? Think of all those 'Footballers' whose team names they carried that have since drifted into near obscurity, whilst others never rated a name because those teams were so lowly at the time. Surprised that the first model is not carrying the name of a Chinese-owned team...

[Ozexpatriate]

So a Railroad B17 is due for release in October 2017. I wonder where 'Liverpool' will be in the table then? 

How many people in Manchester will want a B17 named "Liverpool"?

[micklner]

How many people in Manchester will want a B17 named "Liverpool"?

 

      Zip you would imagine.

 

      How many people in general would want one particular Team version of a B17 not a lot. Buyers  would ignore it or if they did buy then rename/number.

 

     Hornby should continued the method done on the original B17 version, there they supplied printed stickers to change the numbers and nameplates by the buyer. Make a new more modern version for the Railroad  B17, leave of the Cab numbers and supply transfers for the Cab and Nameplates and a decent set of proper LNER Tender lettering not the naff Gold only version, for people to fit themselves.

     Children if any , have one bought for them, either wouldn't  notice or dad/mum can put them onto the model for the child. That way the sales appeal is given a big boost and overall sales should be much higher for Hornby.

[jjb1970]

While an improved Railroad level B17 may not be quite the sort of model to excite most on this board, I welcome it. I think the Railroad range fills a useful niche, both in terms of providing lower cost models for the remaining trainset market and as lower cost models for the price concious or those who are quite happy with more robust, simpler models. By offering two B17 models, a premium super detail model and a cheaper Railroad model Hornby are offering the market a choice, surely a good thing. The price comparision with a Hattons clearance model is a bit embarrassing for Hornby but also a bit meaningless in some respects as it is common in most fields to be able to find clearance items on sale at lower prices than products that ostensibly sell at much lower price points. I've found that whatever the nominal spec of Hornby Railroad motors that the models are extremely sweet running and in my experience can be smoother and quieter than full fat models with far more impressive looking motors if only reading spec sheets.

[Red Devil]

How many people in Manchester will want a B17 named "Liverpool"?

 

 

      Zip you would imagine.

 

      How many people in general would want one particular Team version of a B17 not a lot. Buyers  would ignore it or if they did buy then rename/number.

 

     Hornby should continued the method done on the original B17 version, there they supplied printed stickers to change the numbers and nameplates by the buyer. Make a new more modern version for the Railroad  B17, leave of the Cab numbers and supply transfers for the Cab and Nameplates and a decent set of proper LNER Tender lettering not the naff Gold only version, for people to fit themselves.

     Children if any , have one bought for them, either wouldn't  notice or dad/mum can put them onto the model for the child. That way the sales appeal is given a big boost and overall sales should be much higher for Hornby.

More than you might guess....just like any successful team they'll attract out of town fans, there's plenty of 40s and 50s aged blokes who hitched themselves to the wrong team in the name of glory since those days. Plenty of LFC supporters in the Manchester area too.....

 

I think personally I'd rather nail my foot to the floor with a 6 inch rusty nail than buy a Ralroad Liverpool, you may take that as I prefer the more detailed version if you wish 

[gc4946]

Of the superdetailed Footballer versions, Hornby's produced:

 

R3003 61669 Barnsley (BR late crest, pristine) and

 

R3163 61662 Manchester United (BR late crest, weathered) [Limited edition of 750 from Hornby magazine]

 

However, I welcome the Introduction of the ex-Ringfield motorised version in their Railroad range - at one time I contemplated re-numbering and re-naming 2859 Norwich City to Liverpool but never proceeded.