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ICI Hoppers from Hatton's in Partnership with Oxford Rail

Andy Y

By Andy Y,
in Hattons

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pharrc20

pharrc20

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OK for the record the detail errors are as follows:

 

Green wagon:

As shown has Large size ICI letters and Diamond frame bogies. This is not a possible combination.

The 84 wagons nos. 3200 - 3283 (00 + 01 - 83) built between 1936 and 1939 were built new with Diamond frame bogies with plain bearings with a plain axle-box front cover. The hopper body was fitted with Small size ICI letters. The C was more rounded as opposed to the more square C of the later wagons.

 

The next 36 wagons nos. 3284 - 3319 were built in 1947-48 and were built new with Plate frame bogies with plain bearings. The hopper body was fitted with Large size ICI letters as shown on the CAD.

 

The thickness of the letters on the CAD looks to me a bit too thick - maybe need to be half the thickness so they are not the same depth as the adjacent rivet strip flanges as shown.

This therefore needs changing to Small ICI letters to be correct.

 

Red wagon:

OK apart from a query as to which era model this is from - if from late 1980s onwards then from my understanding virtually all of the 32xx number plates on the sole-bar (small white plate on CAD) and the CLC/BR (LMR) registration plates (right white longer plate on CAD) had pretty much gone by then but some wagons may well have slipped through the net retaining the reg plate and in some instances still had the Charles Roberts works plates too but again these had to my knowledge been removed.

Ditto letter thickness. BR Timken roller bearings correctly fitted to the Plate frame bogies

 

Purple wagon:

Presumably this represents the post ICI wagons when they became owned by Buxton Lime Industries (BLI) as shown without any letters Small or Large. However, the bogies have the wrong bearing detail on them. They should be BR Timken roller bearings as per the Red Wagon to represent the wagons in their final few years on the mainline. This would not have the 32xx number plate nor the reg plate on the solebar as they had long been removed by the 1990s.

 

So bogie axle-box detail needs changing to the roller bearing type. For the record, yes you can have Diamond frame bogies with roller bearings as all of the ICI wagons received them from around 1968 onwards until the whole fleet was converted.

 

Minor details yes? It is often the simple, minor details that spoils models...

 

The HMRS photo website has some scans of the original Charles Roberts works photos of some of the wagons including the first three built 3200, 1 and 2 and then 3203 showing the adoption of the hand-brake wheel in the middle of the wagon. The offset of this wheel on the CAD is correct as they were offset on one side as they were connected via gears connecting both shafts to the hand-brake wheels.

 

3203 http://www.hmrs.org.uk/photograph-collection/photoinfo.php?id=AAS826

3284 http://www.hmrs.org.uk/photograph-collection/photoinfo.php?id=AAT712

3295 http://www.hmrs.org.uk/photograph-collection/photoinfo.php?id=AAT717 showing opposite side to 3284

 

HTH Paul

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Hattons Dave

Hattons Dave

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Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback both on RMweb and through other mediums.

 

I'm happy to confirm that CADs have been approved for the first samples to be produced.

 

The three photos were provided to demonstrate the various different tooling options of bogie and body combinations being accommodated in the tooling. There will be more than 3 combinations of body and bogie but this is the minimum number of versions needed to show all on one CAD for review. The correct combinations have been previously specified to Oxford Rail and will be shown on the colour layouts as they are produced by ourselves.

 

The ICI lettering depth (both sizes) has been reduced to a slightly thinner profile but was not as thick as the ribs to begin with, this was an illusion created by the CAD images.

 

The number plates and registration plates are separate parts that are shown on all 3 CADs but will only be fixed to the appropriate wagons.

 

We will update you as soon as we have a date for the first EPs arriving with us.

 

Cheers,

Dave

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pharrc20

pharrc20

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Good. Check the small curved corner plates that are fitted between the corner of the sloping body-side/end and the large rectangular end support plate as these were not fitted to 3200-3319 from new according to the Chas. Roberts works photos. It is possible they were fitted from the 1950s or later to stiffen up the body-side. These small plates were fitted as new to the final batch 3320-3351 but you aren't producing these wagons as models. I will have to have a look through my hopper photos to try and identify when these small plates were added to the 120 wagons.

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timofchirk

timofchirk

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I.C.I did purchase a few John Summers hoppers,to replace accident write offs.Some of which happened on the curve at the Winnington branch outlet onto the mainline.Viewed from the family home!Alas they were shorter,but not a great modelling nightmare.

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pharrc20

pharrc20

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I.C.I did purchase a few John Summers hoppers,to replace accident write offs.Some of which happened on the curve at the Winnington branch outlet onto the mainline.Viewed from the family home!Alas they were shorter,but not a great modelling nightmare.

As far as I am aware BR purchased the 13 surplus John Summers on behalf of ICI Mond by way of compensation for the 13 ICIM hoppers lost in accidents and derailments. ICIM then overhauled them to their own spec at Avenue Workshops and added the 13 to the pool of Roadstone aggregate hoppers. Some photos of the derailment on the Oakleigh Sidings branch curve appeared in my book on the wagons although the exact date I never did manage to pin down other than circa 1981. I did an extensive search through the newspaper microfiches held at Northwich library some years ago now and found nothing reporting the derailment. I did consider a house to house enquiry along the railway side of John Brunner Crescent but never did so. So to see the wagons near to your family home must have been an interesting sight especially the recovery of them. The John Summers hoppers only differed slightly in overall height being a couple of inches lower than the ICI wagons comparing two wagons together. The chassis length and width is the same, buffers differed, Summers unfitted and the 13 wagons gifted to ICI gained full vac braking as per existing ICI hoppers.

 

Cheers Paul

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Hattons Dave

Hattons Dave

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I heard they'd took delivery of a sample from someone on Facebook? Must of been end of platform talk as surely they'd of posted pics here....unless it was littered with errors like what "pharrc20 pointed out above!

 

Rumour mill only I'm afraid. First EPs are still under development by Oxford Rail.

 

Cheers

 

Dave,

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pharrc20

pharrc20

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Possibly someone has seen these and got confused (Photos of the Wild Boar Models PHV ICI Hopper Kit)? They were on Facebook a while ago...

attachicon.gif102_1523.JPG

attachicon.gifDSC03445s.jpg

attachicon.gifDSC03015s1.jpg

 

Wild Boar Fell

Hi Matthew, maybe not sure. Here is what was posted on FB

"Probably something and nothing, but Hatton's Model Rialways (now in Widnes) has got the Early prototypes for the 4mm scale ICI (Ex-LMS) bogie hoppers (PHV)."

Dated 23rd July.

 

Cheers Paul

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Mark Saunders

Mark Saunders

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Hi Matthew, maybe not sure. Here is what was posted on FB

"Probably something and nothing, but Hatton's Model Rialways (now in Widnes) has got the Early prototypes for the 4mm scale ICI (Ex-LMS) bogie hoppers (PHV)."

Dated 23rd July.

 

Cheers Paul

 

Why do so many people insist hat these are ex LMS wagons when they were always Private Owners?

 

Mark Saunders

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pharrc20

pharrc20

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Why do so many people insist hat these are ex LMS wagons when they were always Private Owners?

 

Mark Saunders

I know it always drives me bonkers when they are described as being ex-LMS wagons.....  :nono: . Private owners from start to end. Only LMS involvement is that they ran on their rails along with the CLC but apart from that nowt to do with LMS.

 

Cheers Paul

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Hattons Dave

Hattons Dave

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Hi all,

 

Hi Matthew, maybe not sure. Here is what was posted on FB

"Probably something and nothing, but Hatton's Model Rialways (now in Widnes) has got the Early prototypes for the 4mm scale ICI (Ex-LMS) bogie hoppers (PHV)."

Dated 23rd July.

 

Cheers Paul

 

I'm afraid it's still a rumour. I've checked all over my desk this morning and can't find them (and I've even looked under the drawings of the Fell locomotive I've got laid out currently :-) )

 

Seriously, the first EPs should be with us from Oxford Rail shortly and, as soon as we receive them I'll post on here as well as on our own website listings.

Cheers,

Dave

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Barry O

Barry O

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Can we have these before next September as we need two rakes for our layout of Chapel en le Frith? A few of us have pre-ordered ta few.

 

Have Oxfordrail taken on too many new models?

 

Baz

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Barry O

Barry O

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So while waiting for the 4mm version  for use on Chapel en le Frith one of our members has knocked up some N gauge ones

 

post-7650-0-33277300-1476371478_thumb.jpg

 

but they don't look right against a 4mm 8F

 

post-7650-0-44941500-1476371491_thumb.jpg

 

Hopefully the  4mm ones will be around soon

 

baz

 

 

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9FEd

9FEd

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So while waiting for the 4mm version  for use on Chapel en le Frith one of our members has knocked up some N gauge ones

 

attachicon.gifN Gauge ICI hopper (1600x1200).jpg

 

but they don't look right against a 4mm 8F

 

attachicon.giflittle and large (1600x1200).jpg

 

Hopefully the  4mm ones will be around soon

 

baz

These look great - as an N gauge modeller can you share any insight on how this was achieved? Was it a complete scratchbuild and what was the basis for the hopper body?

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JSpencer

JSpencer

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Hi all,

 

 

I'm afraid it's still a rumour. I've checked all over my desk this morning and can't find them (and I've even looked under the drawings of the Fell locomotive I've got laid out currently :-) )

 

Seriously, the first EPs should be with us from Oxford Rail shortly and, as soon as we receive them I'll post on here as well as on our own website listings.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

OH NO --- NOT a Fell please! I have just finished gathering all the bits to scratch build one.

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Barry O

Barry O

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The Judith Edge kit for a Fell will be ready way before we even see one of these wagons. Strange the Warwells have delivery schedules - these don't so are they no longer going to appear?

 

If they aren't it would be nice to know now so that some of us can set Plan B in action.  

 

Baz

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