RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2015 This is coming on we'll Pete, can't believe how fast you build things! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Hi Russ. I've been compared to an on/off switch! I'll spend a couple of days solid on something and then not come back to it for a week! If I had a disciplined mind, I'd budget a couple of hours a day but I don't work like that. As West Croydon moves on (once track is down and wired), I may need to take you up on your kind offer of some static grass instruction! For an urban location, there will be a reasonable amount of greenery at the tram flyover end (Wandle Park). I've been pondering what to do with North Street and I think I'm 99% sure I'll offer it up for sale. It's typical of me that when I've finished something (as much as I can), I usually move on to another project and pour some funds back into that. I mentioned to someone the other day that I'm sometimes envious of those who seem to have an unlimited hobby budget! Not me, unfortunately, and I'll need to spend a decent amount of cash on C&L track, point motors etc to move West Croydon on. I might make a posting on the North Street thread later and see if any RMWebber wants to take it on... I don't fancy standing behind it an at exhibition but it has had invites. It might suit somebody. Have a great Easter everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCML100 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Looks like a good start. With you previous layout in mind i will be following with interest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2015 I'm sure you'll have plenty of takers for north street. Hopefully you'll sell it before you move,mind I do find it quite funny that you are starting a new layout with a house move staring you in the face!! When we moved from sheringham I thought I had all the railway and car stuff sorted..... Last load ended up up here at midnight! Haven't been on here for a bit as I've had the pleasure of the N&N for a week with a face abscess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridwatcher Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Thanks for the tips guys. One thing's for sure - whatever I use for point control, I'm certainly looking forward to banishing the Peco solenoid "clunk". There's something slightly mesmerising about point blades throwing slowly... Colin - that pretty much sums up the way I feel about prototype research. If you can achieve the correct "feel" for an area in a certain period of time, that's more than good enough for me. I don't think I'm disciplined or skilled enough to attempt an exact copy of anything (even if I had the space)! I also don't think it would be as much "fun" and that, for me, is reason enough for building a layout. If I didn't enjoy doing it, what on earth would be the point? Duncan - wherabouts are you now? I visit my father in Wallington often enough but have not actually spent any time in Croydon itself since just after Tramlink opened. That's going back a while now! I have had a wander around on Streetview and you're right, the change from what I remember growing up is immense. I too wish I'd taken a stack of photos of the area in the 70s and 80s. Hindsight is a terrible curse. The plan for this weekend is to put a couple of coats of magnolia on the middle floor landing and move this old house on towards getting it sold. No modelling for me... I told you this would be a slower build. Other stuff gets in the way. Damnit... Pete. We have used Fulgurex motors for years with very few problems. If you do get them you can strip and rebuild motor anyway. The switches are built in to the unit/cost and they are slim. Tried the Cobalt Blue things and they were awful! Tortoises are OK but you have to build/design your baseboards to suit!? Very slow action and nicely prototypical. We thought they had gone bust but DCC Supplies and others all seem to have them back in plentiful supply again. Just a thought. Si Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Commiserations Russ, I thought you hadn't been around for a while. Wish I'd known... I could have looked after your van for you, you always wanted it brush-painted into revised NSE livery, didn't you...? I am a complete idiot for starting a new layout with this house about to go on the market. It also has the biggest footprint of anything I've built, coming in at 11' x 5' in 4 sections. At least I was bright enough to build it in sections... Si, it's slowly dawning on me that there's quite a bit of choice re: slow action motors. Having only ever used Peco solenoids, until recently I was aware of Tortoise and that was about it! Slightly nervous about the whole Tillig/slow-action thing, but I do like to advance my skillset a little with each build. I see the Tillig points and C&L sleeper bases as moving one steps towards handbuilt in the future. Probably the distant future, but it's a start! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2015 Cheers Pete, that's quite a size. The only thing with slow action point motors and hand built track is quite a bit more expensive and time consuming especially if you are doing quite a large layout. I'm looking forward to seeing this progress. Could be a while before I get back to building my layout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 OK... quick question, folks... I stated earlier that I don't even want to think about scenics until track is all laid and everything is wired up and working properly. This means that before I do anything else, I need to build the fiddle yard boards. Here is my dilemma and any help would be appreciated as I've only ever built a fiddle yard in OO for an end to end layout. I have 11 feet to play with but I'd like to keep the width down, so in my head I've allowed just 2 feet. To get 6 roads in the fiddle yard, the inner track will only work with 1st radius curves and that worries me. I think that 1st radius reverse curves into the storage loops will be a recipe for derailment disaster. I know the EPB and VEP will grind their way around 1st radius but I'd be happier stretching it a little. 2nd/3rd radius would be better. As for stock length, I'm happy if I can fit 6 coaches in the longest loop, eg: a 2EPB coupled to a 4VEP, so I can prune a little off the loop length if need be. The simplest solution would be to increase the width to 2'6" but I really will be pushing it for available space. I've shown 1st and 2nd radius setrack on the plan, just to make sure I get a smooth curve through 90 degrees. Is there a better way to do this, even if it means sacrificing some length off of the loops? The plan below is just an off-the-top-of-my-head approach. I'd be interested if anyone can think of an alternative! Thanks, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted April 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2015 OK... quick question, folks... I stated earlier that I don't even want to think about scenics until track is all laid and everything is wired up and working properly. This means that before I do anything else, I need to build the fiddle yard boards. Here is my dilemma and any help would be appreciated as I've only ever built a fiddle yard in OO for an end to end layout. I have 11 feet to play with but I'd like to keep the width down, so in my head I've allowed just 2 feet. To get 6 roads in the fiddle yard, the inner track will only work with 1st radius curves and that worries me. I think that 1st radius reverse curves into the storage loops will be a recipe for derailment disaster. I know the EPB and VEP will grind their way around 1st radius but I'd be happier stretching it a little. 2nd/3rd radius would be better. As for stock length, I'm happy if I can fit 6 coaches in the longest loop, eg: a 2EPB coupled to a 4VEP, so I can prune a little off the loop length if need be. The simplest solution would be to increase the width to 2'6" but I really will be pushing it for available space. I've shown 1st and 2nd radius setrack on the plan, just to make sure I get a smooth curve through 90 degrees. Is there a better way to do this, even if it means sacrificing some length off of the loops? The plan below is just an off-the-top-of-my-head approach. I'd be interested if anyone can think of an alternative! Thanks, Pete. WestCroydon_fiddle.jpg Hi Pete, if you squidge up the tracks to less than peco 6' spacing the whole thing should be narrower than that, allowing it to be further over and easing the curves. Have you thought about completing the curve thru 90 degrees before you start the pointwork and using small Y points - that will aid getting a good spacing. It might shorten the roads a bit but then it's your call which works best. Another option which is operationally limiting is to reduce to single track on exit and entrance then go back out for your fiddle roads. Then you only need one curve. The 'A' level option is to have two tracks right round and then have a traverser at the back! Sorry I cant sketch any of this out I'm just about to leave for a couple of days away with the lovely wife..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Sorry I cant sketch any of this out I'm just about to leave for a couple of days away with the lovely wife..... Thanks Colin. Hadn't thought of a double track-single track solution. Need to play around with a pencil and some graph paper. Enjoy the break! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2015 You could build a traversed, I built one using ball bearing drawer runners from Blythe and Wright's. I haven't actually used it yet but it means you get the same length on all roads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 A traverser would be my first choice, but doubtful that I'll be able to get more than occasional "hand of God" access to the back of the layout, which is why I'm stuck coming up with a solution involving remote-operated points. Changed the plan to include 2nd and 3rd radius curves with siding access not beginning until after 90 degrees, but I've shortened the storage loops unacceptably! I've gone from 6/7 coaches down to 4/5 which isn't good enough. I must admit I'm struggling to get my head around this... a simple end-to-end fiddle yard doesn't require anywhere near as much thought! I'm starting to think I have no choice but to increase the width. I'll make a pot of coffee and scratch my head until it bleeds. Obviously the fiddle yard doesn't have to be setrack, I've just used this with the planning software to make "playing around" easier. Edit: Another thing to bear in mind is that the fiddle yard will be over two boards, each 5'6". Might be a bit tricky to incorporate a traverser which would need to be removable from the main boards and probably at least 8 feet long! Nice thought though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Right Pete, Time for some out of the box thinking: What about a vertical fiddle yard using drawer runners etc., in a vertical configuration and then a 'stack' of shelves containing two (or three) through lines can be moved vertically and aligned with the entry / exit roads as required. Fasten the whole lot together in a drawer like frame. add a (bicycle) chain drive and hand winch (bike pedal) or motor with aligning bolts to locate and support and hey presto - big fiddle yard in small space. ps the men in the white coats have just arrived. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 ps the men in the white coats have just arrived. That was quick... I only phoned for them a minute ago. I hope they lock you up in a very well padded room for a very very long time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted April 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2015 I have seen a vertical traversor and it was superb but I suspect that it cost the owner quite a bit to have it specially made for a large permanent layout, the traversor being in another room to the main layout. I have often thought of doing one but to get it reliable it would need a fair amount of engineering skill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Pete, You fiddle yard needs to be functional and take the length of train that you need? How about this for a suggestion. On the end of each ladder that leads away from the fiddle yard, use two Peco Setrack Curved points. Their looks arn't the best and in a facing direction you can get the odd derailment. However when trailed through they are pretty reliable. I've used them myself and didn't have a problem, both facing or trailing. Please see my 'sketchomatic' drawing/suggestion. You get four long sidings, two medium and the reverser in the middle. I could't find any peco template for these to do any planning. All the best, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparxD428 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Hi Pete, I agree with The Bigbee Line I think, as I have exactly the same dilemma as you on my new layout, and whilst I haven't committed 100% I think the only way to maximise the fiddle yard capacity is to use some Set-track curve points on the curves into the yard. You could consider a cross-over before the curved points so if you have any stock that would not negotiate the curved points well they could run "wrong-line" into the fiddle yard loops on a better radius curve if you have enough space to design that in? Good luck sir. Cheers, Stu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Andy/Ian... I'm happy butchering wood, but I do think that's a step or two (or 28) above my ability! A wonder to behold though! Ernie/Stu... that's a possibility - I shall have a play around in AnyRail later. Looking at the sketch, it looks like the curved points are only ever traversed in the trailing direction. Whichever way I look at it, the width of the fiddle yard is going to have to increase, that I'm sure of. A year or so ago, I did build a decent sized fiddle yard for an oval layout, but in N. It did actually work well but was approaching 2' in width even in N - I don't have the room to copy that in OO. Food for thought. Thanks guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Temeraire Posted April 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2015 that's a possibility - I shall have a play around in AnyRail later. Looking at the sketch, it looks like the curved points are only ever traversed in the trailing direction. Whichever way I look at it, the width of the fiddle yard is going to have to increase, that I'm sure of. Hi Pete I have also used the curved Setrack points on Exford Park and have had almost no problems despite trains rattling through at full tilt in both directions through them! On a previous layout I had a six road fiddle yard using Streamline point geometry and it was only 18 inches wide so I am sure that your 2 foot will be more than adequate for 6 roads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated. Ernie, I haven't had a proper play around with your idea yet, but it does seem to push the width out a fair bit, unless I've made a mistake. I do like the idea of only having to traverse the curved points in the trailing direction, though. Bearing in mind what Ian (Temeraire) has said about the curved points on Exford Park and the fact that I'll only be using modified RTR stock (nothing exotic), the 2nd plan (below) does give the longest possible length in each storage road. As any 1st radius curves have been banished, the width of the fiddle yard has been pushed out to a fraction over 2'6" from 2', but I was kinda expecting that. Still working on it, but obviously I must know how big the fiddle yard boards need to be before I can build them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Go with the second drawing, longer sidings like you say and you'll never have a problem storing longer trains. i built a fiddle yard a few years back with short sidings on a swiss layout and regretted not putting more thought into it and have longer sidings. You can never have enough storage space! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 You can never have enough storage space! Yup, I'm inclined to agree. The 2nd plan allows for an 8CEP+MLV if I ever feel the urge. If that's not enough, there's something wrong with me... I would originally have been happy with 6 coaches! Off to Wickes tomorrow with the van on a paint mission, but some more ply might make the journey back with me. Wickes in Norwich seems to be a decent source for good quality timber lately, so I might pick up some 50x50 planed and make up some legs to get the boards off those trestles. I do miss not having a decent family-run timber yard anywhere nearby. Some copperclad strip has been ordered from C&L together with the extra sleeper bases I need so there might be a little progress soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2015 Is thaxters no good to you? I get all my wood there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Is thaxters no good to you? I get all my wood there I thought Thaxters was a garden centre in Kings Lynn. Just googled Thaxters Timber. Doh. A good-size 3rd generation family-run timber yard just 6 miles away... Thanks Russ, he says sheepishly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 9, 2015 How on earth did you miss it, it was on the holt bypass for years. Its just moved onto the briston road. They are good lads in there and nothing ever seems to much for them. they often have off cuts very cheap, i built s coal bunker from 1inch tongue and groove for £20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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