West Croydon - 80s/90s Network SouthEast

[Guest]

Since we have now persuaded you that exhibiting would be fun, extra capacity in the fiddleyard will be useful for running visiting operators' trains.

 

Do you not think it would be a little boring at an exhibition? No sidings, no shunting, little freight, just a few multiple unit "turnback" moves? I'm selfishly building this just for me, as the area holds memories... I genuinely don't see the appeal to a wider audience - there's not even a station, just perhaps the hint of one. That doesn't mean I don't like it, I love it... but I'm thinking of it as a large "test track" and the chance to improve my limited skill-set. That said, having chickened out on the invites I had for North Street, never say never. Ian (Temeraire) just exhibited his Tidworth for the first time and by all accounts, had a ball. In all honesty, the social aspect of exhibiting does appeal, but then so does just having a few mates round for a running session and the chance to run some trains out of character/era. If I ever work out what I want to get out of this hobby, I'll let you know!

 

Edited to include link.

[Temeraire]

Ian (Temeraire) just exhibited his Tidworth for the first time and by all accounts, had a ball. In all honesty, the social aspect of exhibiting does appeal, but then so does just having a few mates round for a running session and the chance to run some trains out of character/era.

Pete we certainly gad a good time and we do the mates at home as well, you really must come and join us at some point, I'll let you know the next exhibition once invited too. If you ever find yourself travelling this way please drop in for a cuppa.

[Guest]

Thanks Ian. Offer stands at this end too, although Norf Norfolk would appear to be the dark side of the moon with regard to local RMWebbers - there are a few hereabouts though! I think the simplest thing for me to do with regard to West Croydon is crack on with it to the best of my ability, hopefully tackling any problems head-on. Mentally, I'll have reached a milestone when I can actually run something all the way round and that (hopefully) shouldn't be too far off now. I'm still on a learning curve with the PowerCab so it's taking me forever to call up a loco and get it to do what I want, so with a working oval, I should be able to understand DCC and the possibilities it offers a little better.

[cromptonnut]

Just wanted to throw a little suggestion into the mix.

 

Above you've got a dead-end siding with buffer stop in the fiddle yard.

 

Why not make a few cassettes, then you still have a functional dead-end siding but you can also store trains in cassettes and swap them out if you had a 'special' train that may only get an occasional run rather than having it block up a siding all day?

 

I used some aluminium angle bought from B&Q set to the same width as rails, screwed to some 9mm strips of wood that the nice man at B&Q cut for me.  This worked fine in O gauge but there's absolutely no reason (just change the spacing between the angles for OO width - and screw them down).

 

I found a very easy way to space the track in O gauge and it ought to work in OO as well.  Find a spare section of 2 sleepers from flexitrack or any other straight track you have.  Remove the outer "chairs" but leave the inner ones - and do this three times.  Screw down one side of the angle to the wood, then using the sleepers upside-down push the other angle up to it so the angle is in the position that rails would be in.  Put one at each end and one in the middle of your length, push together tightly and drill a pilot hole at one end, and screw down.  Repeat at the other end, and you can then do the middle.  Do interim holes as well if you are using a long length.  Then wire up a couple of crocodile clips to the rails, raise the rail in the fiddle yard appropriately, and off you go

[Andrew P]

Morning Peter, having Exhibited St Budoc, Trebudoc, Glen Roy, Loch Leven, Fiddlers Yard and Deesdale Road I can certainly vouch for the friendliness and support you get at Shows. Yes the first couple can be a bit stressful, but with a good team around you for support it can also be very rewarding as well. Whatever you do, the first thing to remember is to do it inside your own personal comfort zone, possibly go to the edge of it but don't go over it otherwise it really is very stressful.

 

This Layouts looking really good to me, and that was how Deesdale started life, that just had a main and Bay Platform and 4.5ft long, its now 17ft.

 

All the best.

[cromptonnut]

Of course, an easy, low-key and mostly stressless way of getting into the idea of exhibiting where you have to remember to pack everything and make sure it fits in the car , and spend time with like-minded people without all the stress of having to entertain hundreds of people, and plenty of assistance available if something goes wrong is a modular type meetup *whistles*

[Guest]

Just wanted to throw a little suggestion into the mix.

 

Above you've got a dead-end siding with buffer stop in the fiddle yard.

 

Why not make a few cassettes...

 

THAT... is an excellent idea... I spent some considerable time yesterday (at least 2 minutes) wishing that I had even more capacity in the fiddle yard. I don't have a huge amount of stock at the moment, but that may change in the future, and the thought of manually swapping visiting stock all the time does not appeal, especially as most multiple units (for example) are fiddly to connect... Brilliant, thanks for that.

As for the modular thing, I could always bring the completed left hand scenic board along to SECAG and then stand there with a cuppa wondering why it doesn't fit...

 

[Guest]

Morning Peter, having Exhibited St Budoc, Trebudoc, Glen Roy, Loch Leven, Fiddlers Yard and Deesdale Road I can certainly vouch for the friendliness and support you get at Shows. Yes the first couple can be a bit stressful, but with a good team around you for support it can also be very rewarding as well. Whatever you do, the first thing to remember is to do it inside your own personal comfort zone, possibly go to the edge of it but don't go over it otherwise it really is very stressful.

 

This Layouts looking really good to me, and that was how Deesdale started life, that just had a main and Bay Platform and 4.5ft long, its now 17ft.

 

All the best.

 

Thanks for the advice Andy, much appreciated. North Street will be heading for its new home on Thursday, and if I know anything at all about the new owner, it won't be the last anyone sees of it. I do now wish I'd bitten the bullet and accepted even one local invite with it. It certainly would have been a good test, not just for the layout, but for me too. Hindsight is a wonderful thing (or is it a curse?)...

West Croydon is in four sections and will fit nicely into my van, so never say never, but I do worry a little about it holding anyone's interest for more than a few minutes... as I said, it's a bit of a selfish build, with little thought given to how it might appeal to others. I'm not particularly into shunting (but I know you are) which is why I've gone for a roundy... we shall see. Thanks.

[cromptonnut]

THAT... is an excellent idea... I spent some considerable time yesterday (at least 2 minutes) wishing that I had even more capacity in the fiddle yard. I don't have a huge amount of stock at the moment, but that may change in the future, and the thought of manually swapping visiting stock all the time does not appeal, especially as most multiple units (for example) are fiddly to connect... Brilliant, thanks for that.

As for the modular thing, I could always bring the completed left hand scenic board along to SECAG and then stand there with a cuppa wondering why it doesn't fit...

Glad to help  Whilst you may not have much stock at the moment, you could have friends over with stock to operate (or helping out at an exhibition - already told you if there's an invite to a show within an hour or so of me and I'm not otherwise booked, I'm happy to bring stock and help out)

 

As for "wondering why it doesn't fit" we have one existing terminus station coming already, and the owner has made a short 2ft converter board that takes the track from its current position where it enters the fiddle yard to the centrepoint of an 18" width board through some nondescript scenery to enable it to connect to the modular standards.

 

A short 4ft x 18" straight plain track board with some scenery and the various bits that are defined by the standards, and you have a module. All you need then is the paperwork (which can be applied for via the link in my signature) and a chequebook (or paypal, or internet banking...)

 

We already have one intended participant from Norwich coming... oh, and Carlisle, so distance is no excuse!

[Joseph_Pestell]

Do you not think it would be a little boring at an exhibition? No sidings, no shunting, little freight, just a few multiple unit "turnback" moves? I'm selfishly building this just for me, as the area holds memories... I genuinely don't see the appeal to a wider audience - there's not even a station, just perhaps the hint of one. That doesn't mean I don't like it, I love it... but I'm thinking of it as a large "test track" and the chance to improve my limited skill-set. That said, having chickened out on the invites I had for North Street, never say never. Ian (Temeraire) just exhibited his Tidworth for the first time and by all accounts, had a ball. In all honesty, the social aspect of exhibiting does appeal, but then so does just having a few mates round for a running session and the chance to run some trains out of character/era. If I ever work out what I want to get out of this hobby, I'll let you know!

 

Edited to include link.

 

As a layout, I think that precisely its appeal is that it is quite different from so many other layouts likely to be at a show - not least because there are so few with 3rd rail still.

 

It is also the sort of layout that a lot of visitors can aspire too in that it is of a reasonable size and not complex. I think that some visitors to shows get a bit put off starting their own layout because they feel that they can not achieve something similar.

 

There have been other simple layouts that have been very successful on the exhibition scene. Pendon started with just the viaduct. Horfield (also at the recent Wimborne show with Tidworth) has four tracks but no pointwork at all on the visible section.

 

Edit to add: Re the lack of a station,, I reckon Strove to have been one of the best layouts ever and that did not have a station.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Thanks for the advice Andy, much appreciated. North Street will be heading for its new home on Thursday, and if I know anything at all about the new owner, it won't be the last anyone sees of it. I do now wish I'd bitten the bullet and accepted even one local invite with it. It certainly would have been a good test, not just for the layout, but for me too. Hindsight is a wonderful thing (or is it a curse?)...

West Croydon is in four sections and will fit nicely into my van, so never say never, but I do worry a little about it holding anyone's interest for more than a few minutes... as I said, it's a bit of a selfish build, with little thought given to how it might appeal to others. I'm not particularly into shunting (but I know you are) which is why I've gone for a roundy... we shall see. Thanks.

 

At most shows, you only have to hold their interest for a few minutes. If, typically, there are twenty layouts plus trade stands at an exhibition the visitors can only spend a few minutes on each. I don't go to Warley because I can't get round 60 layouts - even in a whole weekend.

[Andrew P]

Thanks for the advice Andy, much appreciated. North Street will be heading for its new home on Thursday, and if I know anything at all about the new owner, it won't be the last anyone sees of it. I do now wish I'd bitten the bullet and accepted even one local invite with it. It certainly would have been a good test, not just for the layout, but for me too. Hindsight is a wonderful thing (or is it a curse?)...

West Croydon is in four sections and will fit nicely into my van, so never say never, but I do worry a little about it holding anyone's interest for more than a few minutes... as I said, it's a bit of a selfish build, with little thought given to how it might appeal to others. I'm not particularly into shunting (but I know you are) which is why I've gone for a roundy... we shall see. Thanks.

One other thing Peter, my first couple of Shows were only my own Clubs Open Weekends, so local if I forgot anything, could set up on the Tuesday and run on the Thursday to re check everything and all the Club Members to give verbal abuse support all weekend.

[Temeraire]

Thanks Ian. Offer stands at this end too, although Norf Norfolk would appear to be the dark side of the moon with regard to local RMWebbers

 

 

Actually, I almost sent a message last Wednesday as I was overnighting in Kings Lynn, but thought it a bit cheeky and short notice! Maybe next time.

[Siberian Snooper]

If the scenics are good and the stock is up to scratch, then there is no reason why you can't take it to shows, if nothing else the kids will enjoy it and if you made the outer track of each line in the fiddle yard cassette friendly, ringing the changes at shows would be easy, would be at home too for that matter.

[Guest]

Have spent a whole day working on the layout today and when I started at 9am this morning, I had high hopes of getting something running. Pah... no chance. It's taken me all this time to wire up just the two scenic boards. Doesn't help that layout electrics are a bit of a "black art" to me. I do seem to be getting a bit better, but this DCC lark is hardly just two wires to the track, is it?

Wasn't too sure where to fit the Microdrive control units and had resigned myself to screwing them to the underside of the baseboard. That would have been a complete pain, so I decided instead to fit them to the rear of the backscene. Access is now easier, but they won't be seen from the front. I still need to run some remote push-button switches to a mimic panel but that can wait... all four motors are calibrated and appear to be working fine, fingers crossed.

I have a half-day free tomorrow, so will try to get everything else wired up, and then maybe a train will run.

 

 

Edited to add picture. So many flashing lights!

[roundhouse]

On Banbury / Santa Barbara I mounted the stationary decoders onthe fiddleyard board surfaces to maintain easy access. However I have seen such decoder a mounted to a hinged panel under the boards so for maintenance etc. they can be hinged down to hang vertically.

 

DCC is not really two wires but less wiring or as much wiring but it can do so much more. Itjust takes more time to understand all the jargon!!!

[Guest]

Ian, you can fit decoders to the Microdrive control units but the thought of using the NCE PowerCab to throw points doesn't really appeal to me... I have enough trouble just calling up a loco address! I'm much more of a "knobs and switches" kind of guy, so West Croydon will have a simple mimic panel at the front of the layout. There will be no "main line" 4 aspect signals, but there will be a few position light ground signals, so I can wire those into the control panel too. That's all for another day, I just want to get the basic electrics working so I can crack on with scenics.

[Zomboid]

West Croydon is in four sections and will fit nicely into my van, so never say never, but I do worry a little about it holding anyone's interest for more than a few minutes... as I said, it's a bit of a selfish build, with little thought given to how it might appeal to others. I'm not particularly into shunting (but I know you are) which is why I've gone for a roundy... we shall see. Thanks.

 

As a punter I tend to find the less operationally interesting layouts more fun to watch. Watching the trains go by is, in my opinion, what layouts at exhibitions are about.

 

I'd rather have to engage my brain as an operator (i.e. switching), but "what will come round next?" is about as much thought as I like to give things at an exhibition, generally.

 

If it were me, I'd build it for myself and if someone wants to invite it to an exhibition then that's up to them - you can decide if/when the invite comes.

[cromptonnut]

Wasn't too sure where to fit the Microdrive control units and had resigned myself to screwing them to the underside of the baseboard. That would have been a complete pain, so I decided instead to fit them to the rear of the backscene.

 

Scroll down to the second option after my wiring guide here http://minxmicrodrives.com/applications/ and there's a page about hinged underboard mounting.  In theory, once you have them working you shouldn't really need to touch them unless you need to recalibrate.

[Guest]

Well... I had hoped to have trains running 24hrs ago, but I am stuck in head-scratching mode over an apparent short-circuit. The board affected is the right-hand scenic board with all the points. I've split the layout into four sections and have tested each one. The other three work fine, so I've effectively ruled out any problems with the PowerCab itself or the PowerCab power supply or fascia panel. I even swapped the flat leads to be sure. The problem becomes apparent when connecting the track supply bus wires to the panel. This immediately results in the red light extinguishing. I've used a good quality bus wire and have checked all the droppers to make sure I haven't stupidly connected a red to a black or vice versa. Track is spotlessly clean with no debris bridging any gaps. The copperclad at the baseboard joints has all been slit to prevent a short circuit there. The Tillig points are very similar to Peco Electrofrog points with the single wire from the frog. I've used insulating rail joiners at the V. All points seem to be working perfectly and you can hear the relays on the Microdrive control units working as polarity is switched. There doesn't appear to be any errors at that end...

I've spent the best part of a day trying to troubleshoot this and have reached the stage where I see no alternative but to strip out the bus wire and all the droppers and wire everything up again, testing as I go. Absolutely infuriating but I'm sure we've all been there. If anyone can think of anything dumb that I might have overlooked, please don't hold back. It's at the back of my mind that it must be something simple that I just haven't thought of!

 

[Guest]

It's official, I'm an idiot. I used single sided copperclad everywhere except the right hand scenic board. On the problem board, I ran out of single sided copperclad and used double sided copperclad sleeper strip. Having slit the top of the strip, the copper panel pins I'd used to secure the sleeper strips were bridging the gap and causing a short on the underside. I've used a slitting disc and cut through the copperclad completely - problem gone. What a relief! All I did was type "dcc short circuit" into RMWeb and lo and behold, someone else had the exact same problem! What a wonderful resource this is.

 

Edit: If I have time tomorrow to put everything back together that I took apart, trains will run and that will be a milestone for me. I'm itching to get on with some scenic work but obviously I needed everything wired up and working first!

[Budgie]

Where's that "disagree" button when you want it? You are not an idiot. We all make mistakes, and it's a good thing for you that you've found it so quickly.

 

Let's have some photos of how things are going so far.

[Guest]

Where's that "disagree" button when you want it? You are not an idiot. We all make mistakes, and it's a good thing for you that you've found it so quickly.

 

Let's have some photos of how things are going so far.

 

I am a bit... If I can't take the p*ss out of myself, I don't have any right to do it to others! We'll split the difference and settle for "muppet". I'd lifted a little bit of track and one of the points on a wild goose chase to find the problem, so they're fixed back down now. I'll test everything again tomorrow, and take some pics now that all the dots have been joined up.

[colin penfold]

Good grief, the comedian's a bear!

 

Welcome to the muppet club but well done for the speedy resolution

[Mike Storey]

Doh!