led ground signals

[Anthony566]

I have been looking for led ground signals that i can use in mt TMD's i have a twin line one and a four line one plus a 3 lane container yard and holding with 2 holding lines and a head shunt area.

 

I have onlt been able to find the eckon ground signal in two white & one yellow.

 

soso my question is are there others out there ( please post links ) and are the colours correct on the eckon ground signal.

 

please forgive the ignorance as i am still at the very botoom of a very steep learning curve.

 

Any advice/ assistance will be greatly appreciated.

[phil-b259]

Traditionally colour light ground signals displayed one red and one white for stop while a proceed indication was given by two white lights at 45 degrees. This method was adopted to save on extra wiring and lamps as the the lower of the two white lamps remained lit for both proceed and stop indications and was identified as the 'pivot' lamp

 

The colour light ground signals with the yellow / white mix behave in exactly the same way as their red / white counterparts - however there is a significant difference in meaning.

 

The exact instruction each type gives to drivers are the same as their mechanical equivalents (red + white discs or yellow + white / black) and there are plenty of resources on the web to give you an idea of where and why they should be used.

 

However if I can offer some advise here - Some background research is suggested as to shunt signals generally before placing them on models, particularly as until recent times TMDs and freight yards didn't generally have signals within them, such signals usually tending to appear only on the connections onto the main lines. Too many models get spoiled by the over application of signals so it is wise to consider prototype practice before getting carried away.

 

To return to the prototype and bring the situation up to date, in recent years the introduction of LED technology to ground signals has enabled the railway to move to giving two reds / two yellows horizontally and two whites at 45 degrees thus improving the indication the driver Receives. Thus if modelling the post 2000 era, then I would steal clear of the Eckon signals featuring the White 'pivot' lamp.

[PaulRhB]

Absolute aspects do the older and new style ground signals at approx £30 each

Scroll down to OO section

https://www.absoluteaspects.com/index.php/online-shop

[Suzie]

CR Signals have ground position light signals too with various types available.

[Maltazer]

I have never seen a yellow position light signal in real life, and I can't even find a picture of one on the web.  I've seen plenty of the yellow and black discs in old photos, but the lack of colour light alternatives makes me wonder if the signalling tends to be arranged differently when position lights are involved.  

 

Mal

[The Stationmaster]

I have never seen a yellow position light signal in real life, and I can't even find a picture of one on the web.  I've seen plenty of the yellow and black discs in old photos, but the lack of colour light alternatives makes me wonder if the signalling tends to be arranged differently when position lights are involved.  

 

Mal

I saw one (an LED conversion as it happens) recently on my travels but I can't recall where - I didn't take too much notice of it, or note its location, because I have been quite used to seeing them in various places since the first two I saw back in 1963, at Slough.

[Suzie]

 

Google found this LED one.

[phil-b259]

I have never seen a yellow position light signal in real life, and I can't even find a picture of one on the web.  I've seen plenty of the yellow and black discs in old photos, but the lack of colour light alternatives makes me wonder if the signalling tends to be arranged differently when position lights are involved.  

 

Mal

 

In recent decades they have fallen out of favour for new schemes, with signal designers preferring the absolute stop the red + white version provides. In some cases where you would previously find a yellow shunt, what has been done is to install red shunts, but remove the opposing locking for moves entirely within the yard / siding. As the twin white lights on the signal mean 'proceed cautiously and be prepared to stop short of any obstruction' then the risks of having opposing shunt signals both giving a proceed is reduced, particularly if movements within the yard / siding are authorized by a shunter (assuming any relevant signals are showing a proceed) rather than the driver just seeing a signal at a proceed and setting off on their own initiative.

[beast66606]

I saw one (an LED conversion as it happens) recently on my travels but I can't recall where - I didn't take too much notice of it, or note its location, because I have been quite used to seeing them in various places since the first two I saw back in 1963, at Slough.

 

Bristol ? - there's one near Stapleton Road

[St. Simon]

 

Google found this LED one.

 

Hi,

 

That's the shunt signal to allow access out of the (current) Electrification base at Swindon onto the Down Main or continue onto the headshunt.

 

Simon

[Anthony566]

Thanks for all the reply .... I will have a look for a bit more detail as suggested and maybe go to one of the suppliers posted above, I do already have one of the yellow and white versions so will use this somewhere on my layout

[beast66606]

Thanks for all the reply .... I will have a look for a bit more detail as suggested and maybe go to one of the suppliers posted above, I do already have one of the yellow and white versions so will use this somewhere on my layout

 

On Widnes we converted the Eckon ground signals to the modern lighting format - 2 reds + 2 whites rather than the pivot. You throw most of the original Eckon signal away.

[Anthony566]

Oh did you do any photos of how as I am an electrical idiot :)

[phil-b259]

Thanks for all the reply .... I will have a look for a bit more detail as suggested and maybe go to one of the suppliers posted above, I do already have one of the yellow and white versions so will use this somewhere on my layout

 

While its obviously your layout and I understand your desire not to let the signal you already have go to waste as it were, I fear you are walking into the classic trap of putting in signals in simply because they look nice. In the real world , signals and signalling are expensive things to design build and maintain so they are only used where legislation or a robust operational need exists. Perhaps a sketch of your layout would be a good idea and then we can see what you are proposing and whether the signal you already have can fit in to the overall scheme of things.

[Anthony566]

Hi Phil, That's a good idea I am travelling for the next few weeks so don't have access to my track plan as it's on my home pc ( and I need to update it as is not what I ended up putting down ) I might try and draw something and take a photo when I arrive at my destination in a day

[Pete Harvey]

I can supply 4mm 3D printed or etched brass modern Colour. Light. Ground. Signal. if needed.

 

Please email me using phd_designs@sky.com if you would like more info?

 

Pete

[phil-b259]

Hi Phil, That's a good idea I am travelling for the next few weeks so don't have access to my track plan as it's on my home pc ( and I need to update it as is not what I ended up putting down ) I might try and draw something and take a photo when I arrive at my destination in a day

 

Remember the track plans in signal boxes are not to scale - and neither does your sketch have to be. What is needed to signal any layout correctly is a accurate schematic, a description of how it will be worked, plus most importantly how it fits into the broader railway scene. Too many modellers fail to consider the bits of railway either side of their modelled section which must be taken into account even if they don't actually exist when determining the signalling requirements for the bit they are actually building.

[njee20]

Whilst some modellers take things far too seriously and take issue with people placing signals because they look nice! Anyone would think we're virtually all indulging in a hobby for a bit of fun!

[Anthony566]

I have had a go at creating a flat view of my track plan on three sections of my layout with the view of getting an idea where I might place ground signals.

 

I am not looking for 100% accuracy but a representation of what I could put down. in the TMD area, the Container Yard and the small maintenance area on the country section.

 

Please see the attached images and let me know what you think.

 

 

Each of these sections are around 16ft x 3ft.

[The Stationmaster]

Is it a continental (not France of course) layout?  You would appear to have right hand running on your 'main' lines.

[Horsetan]

Oh did you do any photos of how as I am an electrical idiot :)

 

It probably involves a couple of tiny SMT LEDs.

[Anthony566]

Hi Mike,

 

This is a UK based layout.

 

Anthony

[sdw7300]

^Hi

^{I ended up making a Ground Position Signal using 2MM black plasticard and pre-wired SMD LED's (1 white, 1 red and 1 bi-coloured red/white) - all purchased from China via ebay. Details of the build are here and a couple of pic's of it installed on the layout are at the bottom of this post.}

 

^Cheers

^Sam

[Anthony566]

^Hi

^{I ended up making a Ground Position Signal using 2MM black plasticard and pre-wired SMD LED's (1 white, 1 red and 1 bi-coloured red/white) - all purchased from China via ebay. Details of the build are here and a couple of pic's of it installed on the layout are at the bottom of this post.}

 

^Cheers

^Sam

Thanks for the links sam.

 

They look fantastic.

[phil-b259]

Hi Mike,

 

This is a UK based layout.

 

Anthony

 

In which case you need to reconsider your track layout.

 

Unlike parts of France, all of Germany, etc ALL multiple track lines (i.e. more than 1) in the UK use left hand running - in exactly the same way as the UK road network does. Even the GWR (which had right hand drive locomotives - that is to say the drivers controls were on the right hand side of the cab) followed UK convention in this regard (though for signal sighting reasons, in view of the drivers cab position, many signals could give the impression that this wasn't the case).

 

Although its true to say that if the lines are fitted with bi-directional signalling then trains may run 'on the right' so to speak - bi-directional working is not the norm and as such will generally not be employed unless needed due to engineering work or in a failure situation.

 

Equally it is rare to have bi-directional signalling on quadruple track - as in theory you have two lines in each direction anyway to provide backup if one gets taken out of action.