david.hill64 Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Looking at that last picture of the firebox it appears that the end plate is soldered in at an angle. It's an optical illusion caused I think by the solder being deep on the left side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Boiler work today. The boiler is prerolled but otherwise a plain tube so I soldered that and put in the ends, wishing that I had soldered some screws into the endplates but never mind! I got out the masking tape and used it to measure the boiler circumference then to mark out bottom centre (along the seam, top centre and handrail positions 1mm above the centre line. I put more tape where the handrail knobs will be and marked out the positions on the boiler, but not yet at the smokebox as the smokebox tube and wrapper need to be fixed. the masking tape is easier to mark than the brass and stops the drill slipping. I also marked out the boiler band positions. The circular clamps came in useful and were used again to hold the smokebox tube in place around the boiler tube. I used my 80W iron for this job and also to attach the smokebox front after embossing the rivets. The rivets form a nice tell tale to get the location correct but I also made sure I marked top and bottom centres and aligned these with the marks on the boiler tube. The smokebox wrapper has a lot of rivets to emboss and was then bent to shape in my rollers with the reverse bends being formed around some steel rod. I drilled and tapped an M2 thread into a hole at the chimney location so that I could locate the wrapper while it is being soldered in place Next to finish the soikebox, drill the remaining holes and add the boiler bands before fitting to the cab and footplate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 You know how it is in the old cartoons when somebody has a bright idea? The lightbulb appears above the character's head and illuminates. Does anyone now what the opposite for this is? You know that horrible moment of realisation that you've done something stupid - an ' Oh !"£$' moment? I had one of those last night. The horrible truth that the way I have set up the motor gearbox means that the body will not fit. I am hoping I can get round this by repositioning the motor so that it sits vertically, either from the front or rear driver, but it means relocating the pick-ups. Driving from the rear with the motor horizontal will not work without intruding into the cab space. OK not a huge job but just infuriating that I had not seen this coming. Ho hum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Does anyone now what the opposite for this is? You know that horrible moment of realisation that you've done something stupid - an ' Oh !"£$' moment? David - that infinitesimal time interval between believing everything is fine and realising it's actually FUBAR is technically known as an ohnosecond. (Edit to add - but I'm confident you'll work it out!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaScala Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 David - that infinitesimal time interval between believing everything is fine and realising it's actually FUBAR is technically known as an ohnosecond. (Edit to add - but I'm confident you'll work it out!) Definitely upright on rear driver so the gears are hidden by ashpan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelester Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 You know how it is in the old cartoons when somebody has a bright idea? The lightbulb appears above the character's head and illuminates. Does anyone now what the opposite for this is? You know that horrible moment of realisation that you've done something stupid - an ' Oh !"£$' moment? I had one of those last night. The horrible truth that the way I have set up the motor gearbox means that the body will not fit. 001.JPG I am hoping I can get round this by repositioning the motor so that it sits vertically, either from the front or rear driver, but it means relocating the pick-ups. Driving from the rear with the motor horizontal will not work without intruding into the cab space. OK not a huge job but just infuriating that I had not seen this coming. Ho hum. David, I've just checked the photos, and there are huge splashers to attach. Would these not cover a hole in the bottom of the boiler? Dave Lester Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Definitely upright on rear driver so the gears are hidden by ashpan. Looks like a good bet. when I get home from work this evening I'll check this. One issue will be where to mount the reaction arm, but this should David, I've just checked the photos, and there are huge splashers to attach. Would these not cover a hole in the bottom of the boiler? Dave Lester Probably. I would rather not cut into the boiler if I can avoid it. Edit to remove an errant 'be trivial'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Definitely upright on rear driver so the gears are hidden by ashpan. Good Call! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 OK so with that distraction out of the way I can get on with the bodywork. I have solder to clean up and need to shave a couple of mm off the bottom of the smokebox saddle. Any advice on the best way of doing this so that the result is square and even and I only have hand tools available? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted May 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2015 Hi David, Possibly a couple of ways Its all dependent on how you built the smoke box... Hopefully you soldered it all up and have a hollow smoke box? Cut a wood block to fit inside the bottom - this will support the metal whilst you carry out the work. Scribe the metal to give you a line to cut along. Use a fine hack saw or rotary saw to cut off the amount you need to get rid of. If you didn't do it that way - forget the wooden block and hope for the best in following the scribed line. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benachie Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 "The circular clamps came in useful and were used again to hold the smokebox tube in place around the boiler tube." I've never heard of these clamps - could you amplify, please -? source? Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Nice build with the usual selection of DOH moments. I wish you well in your new venture with the Gladiator range. Have you a web site as yet I may have a commission for one of the range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Nice build with the usual selection of DOH moments. I wish you well in your new venture with the Gladiator range. Have you a web site as yet I may have a commission for one of the range. Thank you Peter. It will take a few months yet before the Gladiator range is up and running. Geoff is still looking after the website and the domain name etc will continue. One of the issues is that buying the business will also involve moving house in Derby (and me giving up my job here and moving home), so there will be much domestic disruption. In the meantime if you want anything you can check with Geoff if he has it in stock and he will be able to sell what he has. I'll probably start by asking for a wish list to prioritise re-introduction of the range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Hi David, Possibly a couple of ways Its all dependent on how you built the smoke box... Hopefully you soldered it all up and have a hollow smoke box? Cut a wood block to fit inside the bottom - this will support the metal whilst you carry out the work. Scribe the metal to give you a line to cut along. Use a fine hack saw or rotary saw to cut off the amount you need to get rid of. If you didn't do it that way - forget the wooden block and hope for the best in following the scribed line. Thanks Thank you: a fine suggestion. The sides of the smokebox are all soldered up. I had wondered about soldering a piece of flat brass into the base, but wood will be much easier. I need first to carefully measure and mark up how much needs to come off. I'll probably use a razor saw for the cut, trying to cut flat on all four sides rather than going through in one pass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 "The circular clamps came in useful and were used again to hold the smokebox tube in place around the boiler tube." I've never heard of these clamps - could you amplify, please -? source? Alan I used these building a J36: very useful. Build thread here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95771-7mm-j36-great-aunt-maude/ The clamps came from Touchstone Tonewoods, but I am sure there are other suppliers. http://www.touchstonetonewoods.co.uk/products/tools/clamps-and-supports/flexible-strap-clamp-ingenious-design-ideal-for-clamping-finge-98501425638500/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benachie Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Thank you, David. I would never have thought of looking at musical instrument repair sites! Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 .... I'll probably start by asking for a wish list to prioritise re-introduction of the range. Would it be possible to produce 4mm "etches only" packs, reduced from the 7mm originals, or does the artwork preclude that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Would it be possible to produce 4mm "etches only" packs, reduced from the 7mm originals, or does the artwork preclude that? It's more a question of intellectual property rights. In many cases copyright in the designs will preclude any attempt to modify them or reproduce in different scales. Also many of the designs predate modern CAD artwork so not easily changed. As I understand it, even with a CAD drawing you cannot simply scale up or down the drawing as things like fold lines don't scale correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Thank you, David. I would never have thought of looking at musical instrument repair sites! Alan It was KCR of this parish who published the source, so it's thanks to him! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 David, sorting out the smokebox problem. I'd use a piecing saw with something like 7/0 or 8/0 blade to remove the material to the scribed line, then find some packing to lay on the bottom of the boiler which is the same depth to the new bottom of the smokebox. You can then rub the smokebox on some fine emery until the packing packing come in contact with the emery, this should ensure that the smokebox bottom stays parallel with the boiler bottom. Not easy but done carefully you shouldn't damage the thin sheeting used on the smokebox. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 After a pleasant week back home decorating, I've enjoyed my birthday by treating myself to a whole day at the workbench today. First I measured the height from the alignment hole in the spectacle plate to the footplate floor and marked the same distance from the alignment hole on the smokebox front plate to the bottom of the smokebox. This showed me how much to cut off. I then made the cut and did a test fit using 6BA screws and nuts to join the boiler to the firebox and the firebox to the cab. Seems to be in order, but there is no clearance between the driving wheels and the firebox, so some fettling will have to be done later. Next I marked the positions for the smokebox and firebox handrail knobs and the ejector, then drilled pilot holes. Again I marked the position on masking tape and drilled through that to stop the drill sliding about. Then I marked the positions for the boiler bands and fitted them. The instructions suggest fitting fixing the firebox to the cab first than adding the rear boiler band later when the boiler and firebox have been joined together, but I marked up the correct orientation and fitted the firebox to the boiler at this stage. I soldered a 6BA screw in the rear boiler former plate to help. Next time I will try to remember to solder this screw in place before rolling the boiler. Then I spent some time cleaning the boiler bands and tried the fit on the footplate, again using a 6BA screw and nut to hold the firebox too the cab. All seems in order. Unfortunately when you add the chassis there is no clearance between the front driving wheels and the boiler or between the rear drivers and the firebox so some attention is required. Even more unfortunately I put a needle file through the end of my finger, so better sort that out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Building up the front frame extensions and splashers revealed a couple of minor issues to resolve tonight. The front frame extensions sit either side of the smokebox and run from just above the buffer bean to the leading edge of the splashers. I discovered last night that the smokebox isn't 100% rectangular, which was a complete surprise as it looked fine by eye. The rear is displaced from the front by something less than 0.5mm, which means that the frame extensions will be at a perceptible angle to the footplate edge over their length. ie the rear will be displaced in relation to the front. Reforming the bottom of the smokebox will be very difficult. I am sure that the front is symmetrical about the boiler centre line and i had thought that the rear plate must naturally follow suit. I may have to remove the rear plate, tweak the smokebox wrapper and refit. If that proves impossible I will be able to recess the frame extensions to accommodate the angle. The message here is to make sure it is 100% square first! The splasher tops have been fitted to the sides. The splashers follow the curvature of the footplate nicely. As per instructions the tops need to be cut back to match the boiler/firebox profile. The issue has been trying to work out how much to take off so that the distance from the footplate edge to the splasher is correct. A good drawing would help but I've not been able to find one yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hello David, a few posts back you mentioned that the front and rear drivers caught on the boiler/firebox, so why not fit the splasher fronts and draw around them so that the splasher tops fit into recesses in the boiler/firebox. I find it can be easer to do it this way than trying to make the tops of the splashers fit the curve of the boiler/firebox. If you want the boiler/firebox to be removable you can fit a 1X1mm length of angle brass along the top of the splashers to help locate it. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hello David, a few posts back you mentioned that the front and rear drivers caught on the boiler/firebox, so why not fit the splasher fronts and draw around them so that the splasher tops fit into recesses in the boiler/firebox. I find it can be easer to do it this way than trying to make the tops of the splashers fit the curve of the boiler/firebox. If you want the boiler/firebox to be removable you can fit a 1X1mm length of angle brass along the top of the splashers to help locate it. OzzyO. Thanks for the suggestion: I think it will be the better option. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkallan Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hi, as David's customer for the Director, I'd just like to say how impressed I am with the care attention to detail that is going into this build! It seems to be quite a difficult kit to get right. I'd also like to add my appreciationg to all of the contributors to the blog and their suggestions which, to me, are little short of ingenious. I am a tried (and, frankly, failed) modeller and have now settled into the niche of what I am actually reasonably competent at, which is weathering the models. David's last build was the Conoisseur/Claymore J36 and this was also for me: I've almost finished heavily weathering that one to late '50s condition, using airbrushed paints and brush-applied pigments. I'll make sure that there are a couple of pics on this site to show the finished article. Keep up the good work guys! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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