raymw Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 If you cladding the inside with ply/hardboard/plasterboard, whatever, then you could save on the insulation by getting damaged /seconds sheets. if you do a search for, say 'cheap damaged insulation UK' you'll get results for such as http://economicinsulation.com/ or http://aandainsulationservices.com/ and many others. If you can get in at the right supply level, provided you can take it away, some users will more or less give broken sheets to you, since the have to pay to get them removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 If you cladding the inside with ply/hardboard/plasterboard, whatever, then you could save on the insulation by getting damaged /seconds sheets. if you do a search for, say 'cheap damaged insulation UK' you'll get results for such as http://economicinsulation.com/ or http://aandainsulationservices.com/ and many others. If you can get in at the right supply level, provided you can take it away, some users will more or less give broken sheets to you, since the have to pay to get them removed. It's a funny old world isn't it I was coming back from North Wales coast this morning and between Ruthin and Corwen I spotted a sign at a farm gate advertising 'Kingspan Seconds' could'nt stop as I was driving an articulated wagon and there was no where to stop but will be checking it out as soon as I get a chance. The beauty of it (if their any good) is that it's about five miles from home in fact just down the road from where I purchased the box section roofing sheets. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it's amazing whats on your doorstep even in a remote location where I live ..... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Just a quick update on progress today ....... once the rain had cleared I finished putting the final 'noggins' ..... had used all the spare off-cuts so had to start cutting up full lengths ...... grrrrrrr never mind had calculated of about two 4.200 m lengths.....and thats about what I used. Today was wood delivery day in the shape a tanalised cladding so decided it was time to start putting up the breathable membrain. I had spent some considerable time on the 'tinternet' and found a company in Cornwall who could supply Duport Reflective Air guard at £104.00 per roll (50mm x 1.5m ) two rolls would be more than enough. Now putting up this stuff on ones own is no an easy matter some the trusty Irwell quick release clamps came in very useful. Every modeller should have at least half dozen of these excellent pieces of kit it's like having an extra pair of hands. First full wall lined out Hopeful the reflective layer will help with the insulation barrier. By mid afternoon the wood delivery had arrived...... not without a few phone calls from the driver who had got lost and was wondering how to get an 18 tonne wagon up the little lane to the house ........ as well as finding a way of avoiding the river bridge with a weight restriction ......... which takes a five mile diversion to come in from the other direction .........well I had given instructions to deliver with a pick up but that fell on deaf ears ...... I was able to source some good quality 8'' cladding which had a re-baited edge which helps the whole formation sit a lot flatter on the building than ordinary product. Again I was very lucky as this was sourced fairly local to here which meant that I was able to go and inspect the purchase before parting with any money ....and it came in 3.6m and 4.8m lengths which works out well for the size of the shed . So the next job once I have completed the membrain is to start cladding the shed sides..... things should really start to look the part over the weekend 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted July 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2015 Hopeful the reflective layer will help with the insulation barrier. Yes it does, also that's not a bad price you got there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Oh B---dy Hell a wet day in Wales ...........what other type of day is there I hear you say This weekend was going to be the ideal time to really crack on with cladding the shed before the roof sheets are delivered next week but the God's have conspired against that plan and have decided that the green green valley needs watering ..................... I was out there at seven this morning and the sun was shining and it was really quite a pleasant morning, but now I'm wet and cold and have enough ......well at least I've made a start ......... I have managed to complete the back wall just got the base feather-board to put into place but it will need cutting down. I started on this side as it was just a straight side with no doors or changes in pitch to worry about as I wanted to made sure that the end boards were nice and square so that I could get the abutting side to match as far as lining up was concerned. I have got to finish the corners of with an over-lap but I felt it was important that the cladding ran true around the shed for appearances as well personal satisfaction. Well will have to find another job indoors for the rest of the day ....... at least once the roof gets put on I will be able to carry on fitting out the interior....... Well i suppose I can watch the steam on the Llangollen Railway from the back bedroom window today as the wet conditions make for good viewing ........so sad really 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 You'll be OK weather wise from about 4pm onwards, maybe before, and 'twill be a bit cooler in the evening. It's looking good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Building has been a bit slow since the last update had one or two things to sort out and had family over during the weekend so thought it would be 'rude' to be making a shed whilst they were staying .......... (Dad's obsessed with this bl--dy shed sure he's losing the plot... Sure you guy's understand the 'need of speed' on such an important project......... Well between the showers today I have reached a mile stone in shed construction the final side of the shed now has cladding in place ........ The only cladding to be finished now is the end gable above the workshop roof and I will put that on once the roof is in place as it will be easier to access. Just for the record I reckon I has used over 2000 screws on this project so far ....it's ..... Hope your all still awake on this thread .....will be asking questions at the end 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted August 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2015 That's looking really good. When you start roofing I presume you're going to make a scaffold of sorts or get a couple of towers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Thanks for that Dave glad you approve. Yes going to use the tower to access the roof area but think i will do it from within the shed and do it a section at a time . Have managed to source some Kingspan off cuts for the insulation so hopefully will save quite a bit money wise. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Well I've spend the last couple of days putting the lid on this on going project and am glad to report that the roof is now in place and ready for the heavy down pours that the weather people have warned us about ..... so as the saying goes ' Bring it on' and lets see if the shed is water proof Have been pleased with the box section type roofing sheets that I was able to obtain from a local agricultural building manufacturer as once you have got the first sheet nice a square the rest follow in a nice straight run. The end barge boards were a bit fiddly but once I had got my head around the angles things fell into place. I was able to access the roof space from within the shed from a scaffolding tower and after a couple of sheets were in place I found that it was easier to work within the roof trusses, well I built it so I decided that I should show so confidence I my creation and was soon skipping from one roof span to the next like a steel erector on a New York sky scraper. Completed end with barge boards in place. Completed roof...... just short of the barge boards above the workshop which for some reason did'nt get delivered. An internal view of the roof with the air guard membrane beneath the roofing sheets. I have today managed to collect part of the 80mm insulation sheets for the walls which are all seconds at the a very reasonable £12 per sheet compared £27 from the local builders merchant. Well at least now if the summer weather turns into a good old British wash out I've got somewhere dry to work .......... Well I've spend the last couple of days putting the lid on this on going project and am glad to report that the roof is now in place and ready for the heavy down pours that the weather people have warned us about ..... so as the saying goes ' Bring it on' and lets see if the shed is water proof Have been pleased with the box section type roofing sheets that I was able to obtain from a local agricultural building manufacturer as once you have got the first sheet nice a square the rest follow in a nice straight run. The end barge boards were a bit fiddly but once I had got my head around the angles things fell into place. I was able to access the roof space from within the shed from a scaffolding tower and after a couple of sheets were in place I found that it was easier to work within the roof trusses, well I built it so I decided that I should show so confidence I my creation and was soon skipping from one roof span to the next like a steel erector on a New York sky scraper. Completed end with barge boards in place. Completed roof...... just short of the barge boards above the workshop which for some reason did'nt get delivered. An internal view of the roof with the air guard membrane beneath the roofing sheets. I have today managed to collect part of the 80mm insulation sheets for the walls which are all seconds at the a very reasonable £12 per sheet compared £27 from the local builders merchant. Well at least now if the summer weather turns into a good old British wash out I've got somewhere dry to work .......... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2015 Now the roof is on, there seems to be an echo. Seriously though, it's looking good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2015 The seconds are missing the foil, but for a shed it won't make too much difference there's something like a £140 saving there which is quite a bit. At present I'm building a brick clad timber frame around a swimming pool, it has 100mm celotex between the studs and 25mm all over and around here the cheapest price is from Wickes of all places. I spend upwards of £50,000 a year in the merchants but I still check around for prices. Can't afford not to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 The seconds are missing the foil, but for a shed it won't make too much difference there's something like a £140 saving there which is quite a bit. At present I'm building a brick clad timber frame around a swimming pool, it has 100mm celotex between the studs and 25mm all over and around here the cheapest price is from Wickes of all places. I spend upwards of £50,000 a year in the merchants but I still check around for prices. Can't afford not to. My thoughts too about the lack of foil, he did have some perfect sheets with foil but they were only 50mm at £16.00 per 8x4 sheet so I opted for the thicker sheets as I had used the Air guard membrane I felt is was worth the risk. I too have found Wickes cheaper for brand new sheets compared to other sources. I ran out of self tapping roof bolts and shot over to the local builders merchants in Ruthin and paid nearly forty pounds for two boxes and later on while I was on the Wickes web site I felt a bit sick when i found very similar ones at nearly half the price. I have ordered the guttering from Wickes as that also is cheaper than most plus it gets delivered so I have been able to buy the guttering in 4 metre lengths which will make for a stronger job. It really does pay to shop around when doing a project like this and it amazes me the difference between suppliers, plus living out here in the wilderness I have to into account the travel time and costs as it's a thirty mile round trip to the nearest Wickes / Screwfix etc. One quick question ????? I am intending to put insulation underneath the flooring between the supporting joists ...what would you suggest is best in this situation. ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 Now the roof is on, there seems to be an echo. Seriously though, it's looking good. Your right there Andy it is a totally different in there now one starts to get a feeling of how the finished article will look and feel like. (wondering as to whether I can fit a bunk bed in one corner above the layout ) Thanks for you kind comments Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted August 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 14, 2015 One quick question ????? I am intending to put insulation underneath the flooring between the supporting joists ...what would you suggest is best in this situation. ?? As most heat loss is through the roof with the walls coming a close second, the floor can be less. As an example in the last bungalow we had 300mm of wool in the ceiling (which would be something like 150mm of Celotex/dense foam), 100mm wool in the cavity (50mm foam) whereas in the floor it was 50mm Celotex. There are other things taken into consideration in the calculation such as what blocks but you get the idea. What you can look at for the floor which is a lot cheaper is polystyrene (Minimum 50mm) http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-50mm-General-Purpose-Polystyrene-1200x2400mm/p/210824 Have a shop around and see what you can find, remember it's just like Celotex, waste nothing by adding all the small bits together. One tip is to put a bit of batten (offcuts and split bits) along the sides of the joists at the bottom as this stops the insulation from dropping through which it can do as floors flex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 As most heat loss is through the roof with the walls coming a close second, the floor can be less. As an example in the last bungalow we had 300mm of wool in the ceiling (which would be something like 150mm of Celotex/dense foam), 100mm wool in the cavity (50mm foam) whereas in the floor it was 50mm Celotex. There are other things taken into consideration in the calculation such as what blocks but you get the idea. What you can look at for the floor which is a lot cheaper is polystyrene (Minimum 50mm) http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-50mm-General-Purpose-Polystyrene-1200x2400mm/p/210824 Have a shop around and see what you can find, remember it's just like Celotex, waste nothing by adding all the small bits together. One tip is to put a bit of batten (offcuts and split bits) along the sides of the joists at the bottom as this stops the insulation from dropping through which it can do as floors flex. Many thanks for that it gives me some idea of what to look for when i get to that stage. The polystyrene at £15 per sheet works out more than the seconds of 80mm that I am putting into the walls so I might just get some extra for the floor Once again thanks for the info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 It's a funny old world isn't it you slave away all day even for a couple of days and you feel as though your going round in circles as well as question why I ever started it in the first place and that's how I have felt on this project over the last week. Measuring, cutting, fitting, cursing, swearing, having a paddy, questioning ones parentage, giving myself a right good bollocking then suddenly its done finished no more panels to fill with insulation and sheets of 8x4 ply to fit and make sure that they are square.......... :imsohappy:yes the interior walls of the main shed and the workshop are panelled and insulated. Wow a mile stone has been reached at last ..... But seriously it really was a real ball arch putting in that insulation and such a dusty job and putting up those sheets was a nightmare on my 'Billy no Mates' it's the last shed I build........ The final section of insulation is done !!!!!!!!!!! I have been giving a lot of thought as to how I'm going to get the plyboard painted / sealed etc. I have decided to coat the ply-board with UPVA glue using a roller as I have used it on plaster work in the past. Workshop walls sealed with UPVA ready for painting First walls in main room sealed I have also decided that I am going to spay paint the emulsion onto the interior walls as it's the ideal situation before the flooring and ceiling is fitted as no masking will be needed and having done it in the past you can get a really good finish. I just need to have a good tidy up first and get myself organised 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 This is looking more like a Holiday Home in Wales than a Railway Room. Superb Job. Regards,Derek. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 This is looking more like a Holiday Home in Wales than a Railway Room. Superb Job. Regards,Derek. Derek you are giving me ideas........ trouble is there's no windows to admire the wonderful views''......... but if I move into the shed and live under the layout I could rent out the cottage 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted August 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2015 If you want any more ideas for the ceiling etc then Jeff over on the KL2 thread has plenty of detail on converting and insulating his double garage, his user name is physicsman and it is his second garage conversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 If you want any more ideas for the ceiling etc then Jeff over on the KL2 thread has plenty of detail on converting and insulating his double garage, his user name is physicsman and it is his second garage conversion. Hi Mick Yes I have been following that thread and have found it most useful. To be honest it was his use of ply-board that prompted me to do the same as he mentioned that he had used plaster board in the past and was'nt happy in the long term. i also felt the same as the ply will be more likely to take the knocks that happen when moving baseboards etc 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Although on a totally different scale, Jason Shron's Kingston Sub has a fair amount of interesting info on converting an existing space into a layout room http://www.kingstonsub.com/ My comments about it are that the footage costs between $100-300 a square foot, so the amount you add to that with the model benchwork is relatively limited. Might as well spend some money and do it in a way which you are comfortable with. James 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 Although on a totally different scale, Jason Shron's Kingston Sub has a fair amount of interesting info on converting an existing space into a layout room http://www.kingstonsub.com/ My comments about it are that the footage costs between $100-300 a square foot, so the amount you add to that with the model benchwork is relatively limited. Might as well spend some money and do it in a way which you are comfortable with. James OMG James that is amazing I know that they do it big on your side of the pond but this is going one whole step further ........ have you put a thread on RMweb about this I'm sure it will cause quite a stir Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 I mention about sealing the ply-board with diluted pva glue well to give an update it works really well. I painted the small workshop today and three coats of ordinary emulsion have covered the boarding well. I mixed the PVA at 50 /50 with water and applied with a roller I then applied the mixture to the ply-boarded walls very liberally This needs a good twelve hours to dry and then its ready for emulsion without the need of undercoat . 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Just thought I would add an observation regarding the painting of the ply-board, as discussed earlier the application of the PVA glue mixture has worked very well as a seal and the two coats of emulsion that have been so far applied have been Johnsons Trade Emulsion that I had from a couple of years ago and I added a bit of water to make it easier to apply with the roller. For the final coat I have not been able to get hold of any of the Johnsons and have had to use Crown Emulsion from Screwfix and from the first roller I could see the difference in coverage and that was without diluting it down ......... absolute load of p..s poor compared with Johnsons It just goes to show that you get what you pay for...................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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