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OO vs EM vs P4 comparison photo
1471SirFrederickBanbury replied to Qweqwe's topic in Modelling Questions, Help and Tips
Iβd say that most photos of an LNER A1/A3 do a great job of showing the effect of the thickness of wheels, at least when the light shine partially on the front bogie wheels: In the world of 4mm/ft scale modelling though, Exactoscale wheels at 1.85 mm for locomotive wheels (unfortunately no longer easily obtainable) and 1.67 for rolling stock will leave you with the perfect look of a heavy, powerful, refined machine on such thin, delicate looking wheels, which is one of the most important factors that goes into βthe lookβ that is one of the main reasons why I love the railways of Britain. With normal P4 wheels (which are usually slightly wider than scale at up to 2mm wide) and EM-F (2mm wide, but with an EM flange) will be acceptable, normal EM wheels will be tolerable, Markits/Romford wheels will cause minor to major frustration, and abominations like Hornbyβs stock Gresley pacific bogie wheels will make you want to grab a hammer to deal with them (if trying to recreate a photo where the wheels are so visible like the examples or are like me). There is also the trackwork part of the look of railways, where we have S4X (exact scale standards) : standard P4: (both examples of track by Tony Wilkins), EM: (cropped from a wide shot by https://emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb76.html), and Peco 00: (a coloured drawing from Peco themselves). What you may notice is that The difference between all of these is in the flangeways. The flangeways of perfectly scaled track, EM-F and MMRS standard track is thinner than the thickness of the railhead, and everything else is increasingly wider, the width also impacting frog drop of wheels when mixing standards. If you go with a 00 standard involving such thin flangeways and using good detail in other places (right chairs, sleepers, etc), the result will be a pretty good compromise, and if not inspected by someone with excellent close up eyesight and a lot of experience in such field, than they probably will end up mistaking it for P4. 00-SF is somewhat such a standard where you can get (more than) half way to a fully realistic look without changing wheels, so that interoperability remains an option. If youβre fully considering any non course-scale 00 option, I would recommend considering Templot Plug Track, as while it is in its early stages, it should make building and designing trackwork many times easier and far quicker too by the looks of it! I hope you found at least some of this helpful.
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Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Hi William, It will be simple to use -- when it is finished. The will be one-click buttons to get started with some basic settings and designs. The problem is that folks are jumping ahead of me and using plug track while it is still an experimental project. That's great if you want to join in the experiment, but not if you are expecting a finished working system. We are still at the stage of finding out what works and what doesn't. Also several things are still temporary until I can get back to them and finish them. For example only cast versions of the A crossing chairs are currently available, and temporarily kludged 4-sided outline. They should be 8-sided, and the default should be the slab & bracket design instead. The differences are quite small in 4mm scale, but not in 7mm and Gauge 1. It will all get done in time, along with much else. There has been a short delay in plug track developments while we transition to a fully open-source Templot program. Help would be very welcome, see: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/open-source-templot5-now-on-github.969/ cheers, Martin. -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
Lacathedrale replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
There may be no other way around it given the underlying application, but it seems there are so many sub-menus and steps between having a plan on the trackpad and then having the timbers and chairs printed it feels so far away for from being simple or usable to me, someone who has used Templot for years - let alone a beginner who doesn't know their slide from their snake. -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
KeithHC replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Martin still considered that it is experimental. But it seams to be working. I have a EM gauge B7 and Y turnout in production as well as a trial a trial 60ft panel that has joint timbers at each end with suitable chairs. To see what it takes follow James Walterβs videos on YT . Ideally it is better to have a mini print farm at home but once set up it does not take long to get going. Currently I have the sleeper base for the Y printing and tomorrow I should have all the chairs needed as well. Also you need to have a knowledge of Templot. Keith -
Hi Iain, The ash plant, is so well captured, and while the steel cladding around the lift was never my favourite, the level of detail is impressive. The north end yard looks amazing, what a view. It will be a pity to paint that water tank, however I included a jpeg that shows its state (colour) within your timeframe, plus check the polish on the shoes !! These views and so many more of this skilfully captured layout has created a real problem for me, I have nearly all the track, points etc for the complete visual part of the layout, but now your craftsmanship, together with Templot 3D printing by Martin Wynne has raised the bar, so what to do with all this Tillig Elite........ π€£ gotta love this undertaking. Yes, the coaling plant roads are a challenge, but you are right, ash and debris was the order of the day. A number of general arrangement drawings show a finished level at top of rail height, and when new (1034.jpeg) you can make out the edge of the concrete pad. I think you would be correct in saying the pad extended under the "sprinkler" on the coal wagon road. But it's all pretty well lost beneath years of ash and clinker. What fantastic footage, love the smooth running is definitely the norm' on this layout. Why bother ? because you have come so far, and it would keep you up at night not to get it right !!! Very best regards
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The layout of Watcombe is based on that of Watchet when it was a terminus between 1862 and 1874. The track diagram was scanned from Ian Colebyβs excellent book, βThe Minehead Branchβ and imported into Templot. The main approach road was drawn as a transition curve to fit the available space and the imported image wrapped along it. I modified the layout somewhat, moving the engine shed road and associated cross-over closer to the platform. It then seemed a pity not to extend it to provide a bay platform and have the engine shed road coming back off it. The cross-over was re-modelled as a pair of double slips to provide more flexible access to the turntable and a more convenient run-round loop. The signal box was moved to the end of the platform. The layout is just under nineteen feet long and is on three levels. The approach road, goods reception and platforms are on the upper level. A siding off the reception road descends to the middle level on which the scissors cross-over and sidings serving the cattle pen and end-loading are located. A further line then descends down to the harbour. As on the prototype, this arrangement creates some operational challenges. Iβve been working on the layout for about four years and apart from ballasting, trackwork on the station and middle boards is complete. Part of my aim in building a layout of this scope and complexity was to improve my own skills and my guiding principle has been βif you donβt like it, do it againβ. Inevitably, some things I once felt very happy about look decidedly dodgy now that my skills have improved and I shall at some stage rebuild the pointwork on the station board. Iβll post some photographs in the near future. This is my third P4 project; the first was trivial and the second was abandoned because of a house move so Iβm really quite new to most of this. Track Plan 4.svg
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The 2mm meeting at the Farnham & District MRC Exhibition inspired me to get on with building my first 2mm layout rather than tinkering. I also joined my local club and having been working on their 2mm layout but the momentum on my own layout is a little stop start, so in an attempt to keep the momentum I thought I would share it here. What Iβve selected is a cameo of the locomotive shed (Lton) and station at Littlehampton set in 1901 to 1905. There are several factors for this choice: I only have 1110mm x 225mm for the scenic board. I only received planning permission for two of the really useful boxes sized for Christmas trees or wrapping paper. The second box is for the fiddle yard, stock and equipment. I prefer modelling real locations My primary modelling interest is the LBSCR While the small space is constraining itβs a useful for improving skills and building a collection of rolling stock for a future layout when space allows. Brighton termini are very few to choose from and none fit into such a small space, even with compression, so finding a sub-section of real location with interesting working was required. I choose the locomotive shed and platform at Littlehampton for several reasons: a great many photos exist of a wide variety of locomotives set outside of the shed, representing plenty of building opportunities in the future. Platform with a run around that will take full length carriage rakes (4 and 6 wheelers) in the limited space Some goods workings for variety. I canβt fit the goods yard into my scenic space but the cattle dock is located on the platform side, Stephenson Clarke coal wagons and a gas tank for refilling the carriages are often photographed next to the shed. This gives some shunting opportunities, and the cattle wagons were attached to the first passenger train on market days. While the majority of the photos are taken from the platform looking north towards the shed, but I have chosen to model the layout from the north looking south. The shed will be the focal point. Iβve managed to avoid compression in the track plan and the layout will be built mainly with Finetrax B6βs except for the platform run around which are B7βs. Track design was done using templot initially using the 1890βs OS map but then latter adjusted using a photo of an original 1901 map produced for the board of trade, and a 1936 map by Southern railways before electrification work commenced in 1937. I've laid most of the track work on the shed side, tested it and just need to fit the servos for the turnouts before proceeding to the platform and run around track work
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Tavistock's extension to a new baseboard My original plan for the model of Tavistock was that the station would fit on two baseboards, each 1.4m long, and with 60cm wide corner boards to make the overall length 4.0m. Rather than build all the baseboards and complete the entire trackwork before commencing scenic treatment, I decided to take the alternative approach and complete just one main board plus a corner board with both track and all scenery before moving on to the rest of the layout. Now that those two boards are substantially complete and I have more hobby time following retirement, I can make a start on the Plymouth end of the layout. As a reminder of the station track plan, I'll repost the image below. The initial board included the platforms, station building, goods shed, signal box and cattle dock. The new board will include all trackwork to the right of the end of the platforms. My original intention was that two 1.4m long boards would allow construction of the model station with virtually no compression. However, although our current house has a hobby area with plenty of space, if we were to downsize in the future, I felt that finding a room at least 4m long might not be so easy so some slight compression might now be worthwhile. Using Templot for the first time and with some welcome help from Laurie Adams, I found that it was possible to reduce the second board to 1.3m and with a slight increase to the curvature of the track adjacent to and beyond the turntable, I would be able to make the corner board 50cm wide giving me a reduced total length of 3.8m. The baseboard has now been finished and the picture below shows it built from 6mm marine ply (with piece of thick card used for the approach to the goods yard) Below shows the board in place, bolted to the existing station board. The extra curve added to the end of the point work can be seen. And finally, a close up with the Templot plan in place. While I'm waiting for the mail to arrive with my shop 1 order, I've made a start on the Pixon Lane overbridge (which crosses the road at the very bottom of the above picture) but pictures of that will have to wait for a further post. Best wishes John
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*like* :) I appreciate there are other considerations, but wonder if it might be possible/practical to extend the Dovetail siding by a wagon length (so the 'working' coupling is still on the 50cm mark)? Likewise extending the loco release to the edge of the land. Won't unlock any new moves, but provides a bit of flexibility/future-proofing for longer locos or esoteric wagons to sit on show but out of the way. 3-way and single slip, the Ricean ideal! Looking forward to seeing what's possible in Templot :) Otherwise nothing to offer - sounds good, looks good, and I like the tourist/promenade thing :) Put in mind of So'ton Royal Pier, which is no bad thing! etc Edit: in case it's of any use my take on the pier, inc some pics I found helpful and inspirational, is here
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Definitely the best iteration so far in my opinion and looking forward to seeing the Templot version, there's some interesting trackwork being proposed π My only query would be the picking up of a tail load sequence, and I have no prototype experience to draw on, but rather than shunting the coaches to the tail traffic, would it not be easier to drop the tail traffic into headshunt H and then drop the coaches back onto it before settling at the platform for passengers prior to departure? Chris
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The next iteration, with a focus on addressing the issue raised by @t-b-g, but also a few other tweaks: The main change to the track layout is the arrival from the cassettes now crosses the loop, with a slip to arriving trains to access either branch of the loop. When in exhibition mode, the triangular extension will be removed, and the track coming off the front of the layout is assumed to be a siding serving some other part of the harbour area. Here is my thinking about train movements - I'd be delighted to get your thoughts on whether this works, possible improvements or snags, etc.: Assumptions: Platform long enough for a train without loco (850mm) Loop long enough for a train without loco (850mm) Headshunt H long enough for a loco or tail load (220mm) Headshunt B, in home mode, long enough for a loco and tail load (420mm) From turnout F to end loading dock G long enough for 4 wagons and a loco (ideally with something still in the end loading dock, but this is not assumed) (760mm) Works road C long enough for works loco, other loco and 2 wagons (the works loco stays parked on this road, hidden behind the works building) (640mm) Moves: Home mode Passenger train: arrive from A into platform road I, via slip at J. Once passengers are off, set back towards B to allow loco to run around train using the loop, via headshunts H and B. Set back into the platform road again, ready to depart to A. Passenger train arriving with tail load: arrive from A into platform road I, via slip at J. Once passengers are off, set back towards B to allow loco to run around train using the loop, via headshunts H and B. Uncouple tail load, reverse into B, propel tail load into end loading dock G. Loco returns to B and sets back onto the train, back into the platform road again, ready to depart to A. Passenger train collecting tail load: arrive from A into platform road I, via slip at J. Once passengers are off, set back towards B to allow loco to run around train using the loop, via headshunts H and B. Couple up to train and pull forward towards A, then reverse onto the tail load via F. Draw forward again, and reverse train into platform road, ready for departure. Goods train: arrive from A, cross to the far side of the loop via F, towards headshunt H (this allows there to be something in the end loading dock). Reverse towards B, until clear of turnouts at F. Shunt wagons from front of train into D as required. OR arrive from A, into the platform road I. Reverse back towards B, to clear the loop. Detach loco and run round, via headshunts H and B. Couple to brake van, reverse into B, and shunt the brake van into the end loading dock G, or (if the dock is needed) to H. Return to B, and take wagons off the rear of the train, shunting to E as required, via F and C. Depending on the destinations of the wagons, some trains will need a combination of these two shunting methods. Exhibition mode Passenger train: arrive from fiddle yard via B into platform road I. Once passengers are off, set back towards B to allow loco to run around train using the loop, via headshunts H and B. Set back into the platform road again, ready to depart to B. Passenger train arriving with tail load: arrive from B into platform road I. Once passengers are off, set back towards B to allow loco to run around train using the loop, via headshunts H and B. Uncouple tail load, reverse into B, propel tail load into end loading dock G. Loco returns to B and sets back onto the train, back into the platform road again, ready to depart to B. Passenger train collecting tail load: arrive from B into platform road I. Once passengers are off, set back towards B to allow loco to run around train using the loop, via headshunts H and B. Couple up to train and pull forward towards B, then reverse onto the tail load via F. Draw forward again, and reverse train into platform road, ready for departure. Goods train: arrive from B, stopping before reaching F. Shunt wagons from front of train into D as required. OR arrive from B, into the platform road I, keeping the loop clear. Detach loco and run round, via headshunts H and B. Couple to brake van, reverse into B, and shunt the brake van into the end loading dock G, or (if the dock is needed) to H. Return to B, and take wagons off the rear of the train, shunting to E as required, via F and C. Depending on the destinations of the wagons, some trains will need a combination of these two shunting methods. All this is subject to the new track plan being tested in Templot, to ensure I can achieve the measurements set out under 'Assumptions'. As well as (hopefully) making the layout operable, the changes have Also clarified the purpose of the area bottom left, near the harbour light. By adding a slight curve to the see wall, I want to suggest that this is the end of a promenade, in the more tourist-oriented part of the town. The ticket office sells tickets for the train, of course, but also the steamers, so this is the nearest point to the steamer pier that is accessible by foot and horse-drawn vehicle from this side of the town (wealthier patrons are not going to want to go through the working part of the harbour). The platform will be partly enclosed with a wooden partition, giving shelter from the onshore winds and (on the outside) providing a place for advertisements, posters, timetables, and so on. The hexagonal ticket booth might be a bit OTT but helps set the 'seaside' vibe of this corner of the layout - did someone suggest this upthread - Phil, Louis? What has clarified in my mind is the 'zoning' of the layout - industry to the left, older working harbour rear-centre and rear-right, and (separated by the passenger facilities) the promenade front-right. This is probably ready for testing in Templot, which could undo it all, if it turns out the track geometry doesn't fit.... Nick.
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So, flipping the platform to the other side has been interesting: Good things: It looks like it is possible to fit in a @Schooner-style fiddle-stick-cassette off the board (subject to a more accurate track plan in Templot). It would also be possible to have a triangular board extension permanently in position, and still just about reach to what is now a traverser on the works siding. The extension would be non-scenic, and used in the home situation, with cassettes on top. The scenic line would finish at the front edge of the main board, closed off at the leftt-hand end by building 'X'. For exhibition, the extension is removed and building X replaced with a small module, extending the track to the added fiddle yard board to the left. I think I prefer this option to the fiddle stick. The section of track needed to run round at the LH end of the loop is now fully scenic - previously it relied on the loco going onto a cassette to run round, so that's a big win. As noted in my previous post, having the end loading dock adjacent to the buildings at the back makes much more sense in terms of its connection to the road and quayside. The Dovetail siding is a bit longer. Bad things: The nicely balanced view looking down the length of the layout has been impacted - previously the buildings at the back, the station canopy and the harbour light were nicely spaced out. Now the canopy is blocking the view of the harbour light (but see below). The area of quayside front-right, in front of the station, now has no purpose - before, it felt like it related to the end loading dock, and could have been dressed with fishing tackle, etc. The track layout has become less interesting, with a lot of straight and near-straight lines. I think I can get a bit of an s-curve into the front tracks (the loop and track either end of it), which could bring a slight curve to the platform (an original wish that got lost on the way) and get the end loading dock and headhunt slightly further from the harbour light, opening up that corner a bit. The front section of quayside might become more of a promenade, with railings. This could work... Nick.
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Photo Call! 2mm Layouts Out and About at Exhibitions
Graham R replied to Pixie's topic in 2mm Finescale
The Forth and Clyde area group brought their new "Mearns Shed" cameo to Perth Show today ... its appearance was decided late on so it was a mad rush to make it presentable in time, and it is far from finished, but it was satisfying to have something new to broaden the appeal of the Further North roadshow. The name is partly because the cameo was conceived around an engine shed somewhere in the eastern coastal area of Scotland south of Aberdeen, which is known as the Mearns, but also to acknowledge the contribution of the group's senior member and backscene-painter-and-limner-in-chief Alistair M. And of course because our hobby is an escape from the pressures of everyday life. The artist surveys the artwork: The coaling bench, scratchbuilt by by Alisdair C, is based on the bench at Aviemore on the Highland Railway but is not dissimilar to the bench at Forfar on the Caledonian Railway. Forfar is the kind of place Mearns Shed is intended to portray - a county town with a population of around 15000 and a variety of industries such as textile mills, small foundries, and agricultural supplies. The water tank is by Jim, the brick hut by Richard. The idea is that the tracks into the shed are connected to an off-scene "fiddle stick" acting as a headshunt so locomotives can be moved between these sidings and onto the coaling bench via a reversing move. These tracks are powered by a DCC controller. The siding along the front (with the goods stock in view here) is not connected but has a DC supply for models which require it so they can prowl up and down it. The shed itself is a shortened version (the prototype had six bays, we modelled two) of the Caledonian Railway prototype at Arbroath, designed in Autocad Fusion 360 and printed on an Anycubic stereolithographic (SLA) resin 3D printer. The windows, rooflights and ventilator cappings are etches by Jim. The basic paintwork here was completed towards midnight the day before the show by Martin, who will add weathering when things have calmed down a bit. The pointwork was a group effort with most members building a point on a Templot template, from which the best efforts were used on the layout. The modular baseboard design was conceived by Nigel with 3D filament printed components by Alasdair W, and was built mainly by Alisdair, Jim and James: these three also executed most of the wiring. Mearns Shed was not the only 2mm finescale layout at the show. The Grampian area group had brought a section of Dunallander as a taster for the layout's planned appearance at Perth in 2025. It captures the mid-1960s scene in central Scotland of A4s on their final duties on Glasgow-Aberdeen 3-hour expresses, Black 5s and Standard 5s on semi-fasts to Perth and Dundee, and Glasgow-Oban trains on the branch towards Callander. Royβs model of the "Faery Brig" at Dunblane, an early example of ferro-concrete construction, is a recent addition: There's still time to catch Perth Show tomorrow if you're in the area, at the Dewar Centre just north of the railway station.
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The key (quay?) constraint is the length of the available space, from the wall just to the left of where the photo was taken, to the far end of the room. I discussed this in my post on June 14th. The Templot plan is critical because the length of turnouts makes all the difference to how long a train can be. Modelling early 20th century GWR turns out to have hidden upsides - the characteristic loose-healed switches used by the company at that time are just a little shorter than other types... Nick.
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Although this thread has gone quiet, preparatory work for Basuto Quay has been continuing. The front half of the house now has a new roof, with better insulation and a replacement Velux window, and the room has been redecorated, so it is now possible to reveal the Field of Play: Everything on the left hand side is stuff that needs to stay in the room, under the layout. On the right, the stuff nearest the camera will be going, leaving room for an operator or two. The chest of drawers, with bedding on top under the 'London Olympics 2012' towel, will be staying - the width of the layout is designed to allow access to the cupboard beyond. The next steps, in terms of planning, are for me to learn more about Templot, so I can confidently build the track layout in it and test the geometry, before bringing that back into Fusion 360 to visualise the current ideas - it will then come back here for further discussion and input from you all! Thanks for everyone's thoughts and suggestions so far - it's been invaluable. Nick.
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Has it really been 7 weeks since I posted! Well it's taken all of that time to get sorted with my own 3d resin printer so that I can print my railchairs to go with the printer sleepers. I've bought a Mars 4 9k funded by selling some of my post privatization rolling stock on eBay. Then I've had to purchase several other things that I hadn't thought about: screen protector, cover to keep out the light, z-axis grease, heater and a full face mask. They're on top of the items I had thought about: a plant sprayer to wash off resin, a roll of UV leds and a little rotating stand to make my own curing station. The 'wash station' consists of a bucket of water and a plant sprayer. I'm only using water washable resin so the cleaning is a couple of dunks in the bucket of water followed by a spray into the finer details to remove the last of the resin. In theory the bucket of water, when left in the sun, should evaporate leaving behind waste resin, but so far this summer the bucket has filled with rain more than its evaporated. I then dry the prints with a hair drier, put the build plate on the rotating stand and cover with the homemade curing station: - a 10" plant pot covered inside with silver foil and a roll of UV leds. The first railchairs I printed would not take the code 75 rail I've have had for a while. I concluded that it was a combination of over exposure and the rail web being over scale. I posted a photo on the Templot forum and Martin suggested that the rail head and bottom were also over scale. So I printed some printer calibration models with different exposures to hone in on the best expsoure time. Then I printed a series of test print railchairs with different rail dimensions. The 5th print below shows I could slide the rail into all 10 chairs which I thought was a bit loose. For the 6th print I reduced the rail web by 0.06mm and then could only slide the rail into the first 4 chairs; so thats the rail dimensions I going to us moving forward. I've now printed of the rail chairs for a whole turnout, but this time they are loose jaw, meaning that the outer jaw(s) with a key are printed separately. Loose jaw chairs allow the chairs to be inserted into all of the sleepers, then the rail is dropped in vertically and then the loose jaws are slotted in to hold the rail in place. Iβm going to label every raft of rail chairs that I print with the location on the trap plan they are for. Just to make sure I donβt get mixed up once they come off the printer. Look whoβs found my secret stash of wagon kits.
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The Model Signal box portfolio
Stephen Freeman replied to Gravy Train's topic in Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure
Changing the subject almost entirely but does Peter still have any photos of the model he made in 7mm scale of Berwick-upon-Tweed, I don't think I took any photos of the trackwork (still have the Templot plans) and it would be a little difficult now as both pointwork and station building are still on the other side of the world as far as I know? -
4mm rail for track construction - sources down under
Bittern replied to Bittern's topic in Down-Under Railway Modellers
C&L offer half-lengths, but that only saves 20% on the postage compared to a bulk order of full lengths - probably because the parcel ends up being mostly protective packaging. I was planning to use Templot's plug track as I have access to 3D printers at work, so either way I'd have to measure up the rail (unless someone else does it first) as Martin used EMGS rail for the default profile -
Hi @Keith Addenbrooke Yes I tend to agree, I had looked at a plan where there was a 180 degree horseshoe type curve on that middle length, avoiding the need to duck under, but I couldnβt make the layout work how I wanted, so I reluctantly accepted that bit! Lol! Yes I can understand both expressions! I primarily meant that pointwork would be handbuilt, for which there are a number of reasons, firstly cost, I can make points cheaper than they can be purchased, and for the number required thatβs a major consideration. I am not a fan of Peco points - their reliability is superb but the plastic on the frogs winds me up, it just removes that prototypical look. Thirdly, handbuilt points allow for longer turnouts, which gives smoother running, they can be slightly curved to fit the location and being all rail, no plastic itβs better pickups. Working from Templot plans, I can build a N gauge point in about 80 minutes and a crossover in about 95, so itβs quite quick .. that includes wiring up and handing the polarity switching. I agree that flexitrack is fine for yards and main lines, although I need to price the options up. At a very rough estimate there are around 160 metres of trackwork, scenic and hidden yards, so what it actually used will come down to cost. I am not sure where in the world you are, but N gauge Peco flexitrack is about Β£95 per box of 25 yards/metres (approx). Building the straight trackwork myself, may work out a cheaper option, given the size. For straight track, itβs also really easy to do! Rich -
Thanks Keith, yes very impress with the Kato products to be honest. I also like the 'drop-in' decoder idea (available across a few manufacturers) which for non-sound at least, makes decoder fitment a breeze! Hi Nick, As soon as I have got things nailed down a bit further in Templot, I'll post a bit more detailed plan. The size I have got is not that big for what I want to do, I agree, but it is what we I have. If I could convince the neighbours to move and bequeath their house to me, I could knock through and double the length!! But I think it should work for what I want to do. I will be honest and say I have never been to America. Some friends got me into American Railroading a few years ago, watching the web cams that are littered across America, and I tend to watch the Tehachapi, VR Barstow, LT Blue Island and UP Bailey Yard cameras quite a bit when I am working. So the layout is intended to be a bit of a Barstow style yard, classifying cars for onward distribution rather than serving local industries. There will be a couple of local trips, but they will go off-scene. The only local trip will be the occasional short intermodal from the yard round to the CSX terminal. Hopefully, this very rough diagram will make the test above a bit easier to understand... .. I am hoping that slightly different levels and buildings/trees as view blockers will prevent scenes from merging together. The arrows indicate entry/exit points from the layout scenic section to the hidden sidings below, the drop in level being very gradual - I estimate for example that the UP main having come through the Canyon scene will have dropped to hidden siding level somewhere around the Intermodal Thru Roads text. The left hand CSX entrance/exit (bottom left) will be dropping from the scenic break in order to pas under the BNSF main and swing across to the far left wall and continue to decrease in height down the next 22ft length, working clockwise. Rich
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I have started this topic a bit earlier than I had considered doing, primarily to bring together a whole host of thoughts, hopefully some discussion, and a place to record the initial planning, so apologies in advance that this will be a slow burn. After messing about with various ideas over the past five or six years, none of which I have been totally happy with, or which have had issues or caused problems, I have decided to go for a permanent layout which will, without doubt, be a slow burn. The aim is to combine the best parts of what I see from some of the Tehachapi, Virtual Railfan and LiveTrains webcams, with plenty of operational activity and scenic options. I started off collecting the 'special liveried' Union Pacific locos that were produced by Kato in N gauge, nearly 10 years ago. These were purely for display, but then you think oh well a few cars (wagons) to go behind them on the shelf would look good! Before I knew it I now have about 22 locos and over 90 odd freight cars! The new layout will feature some through running, a large-ish (16 road classification road (tiny by US standards but limited by space!) and the ability to run long (40-50 car) trains. The main yard will be UP, complete with engine facility (depot) but the mainline will have run-through rights with BNSF, NS and CPKC. There will be a separate CSX route which crosses through diamonds in a north-south style, but is linked to the UP east/west. The layout, being fixed, will be twin level, with storage roads below, and the scenic sections above. The boards will be built away from the room and moved in, on the track is laid, wired up and tested on them. Control will be Digitrax DCC, and the aim is to recreate some of the fascinating operations for the cameras. Trackwork in the scenic section will be handbuilt, I am not sure about the hidden sidings yet, I may go Peco metre-lengths for speed, but unconvinced on points. Pointwork will be controlled through wire-in-tube to servos mounted in easily accessible positions on the board edges, controlled by MERG CBUS boards, which will also operate signals and feedback on DCC detection. Lot of track planning to do yet, I have got a good basis for what I want to achieve, and where I want it to go, but I am hoping the first board will be built late summer. I am still collecting locos and freight cars for it. There will be a need for a large number of intermodal and coal hoppers! I have about 12 of the former and 36 of the latter at the moment, so almost one complete rake of coal wagons. I estimate it needs another four rakes. Thanks to TrainTrax in York, I have just added two locos, another of the UP heritage liveries that was missing, and my first Amtrak loco - the layout will have a Amtrak stop for the occasional passenger working! Both are DC only, but the decoder is here for the SD70Ace (UP1995), and I need to acquire the appropriate one for AMTK100. I'll post a better idea of the layout design shortly, and a plan once I have got it to a suitable place in Templot! Rich
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You can introduce shallow curves into commercial points usually by cutting webs . Generally the actual crossing is straight because you cannot easily curve some like the peco ones. However you can start curving again immeddiatly behind the wingrail tips. If you are making your own you can curve a turnout in templot or if you want to make your own you take the measurement from the blades tips to the crossing nose and measure this distance along the curve. Where the diverging road springs off the inside of a curve the diverging radius will be tighter . There is a formula R= RmxRd/Rm-Rd so if you want a 3ft curve off a 6 ft curve the equivalent turnout would be a 6ft radius turnout. Your B6 is approx 4ft radius so on a 6ft curve the formular becomes 4=6xRd/ 6-Rd > 24-4xRd= 6xRd > 24= 10Rd so Rd is 2.4ft. I would suggest when curving a turnout opt for a least one size large so a B7 instead of a B6 or even a B8 for a larger diverging radius. Saves a lot of calculations . Don -
In theory it should all be ok, geometry having all been set by Templot and then checked with a mk3 coach before gluing down. However saying that I canβt remember if I allowed an extra 20thou for the brick facing so the whole thing may need some rework! will dig out the trusty mk 3 and recheck at lunch! -
Regarding the curving of proprietary points to suit individual location needs on a layout, whilst appreciating that others have done this and are happy with the results, I am somewhat uneasy at the prospect and would rather build something bespoke to the location, even if a Templot type plan needs to be produced first... -
Just before Christmas last year, I started to build a 2mmFS exhibition layout. The Cyril Freezer layout Minories was the layout of choice. I am very fond of this plan. There was a Templot drawing (by young Mr Adams), and the pioneering had been done by the Whitehouse/Simpson "Hallam Town." I opted to use Finetrax turnouts to facilitate easy construction. However, it didn't go as well as I expected. They were easy to put together, and things slid in as expected. The first problem I encountered was with common crossing or frogwire. The first turnout I laid while pushing the wire down popped the common crossing. To overcome this with other turnouts, I exerted pressure on the common crossing, which to some degree worked, but while connecting the wire to the bus, the movement was sufficient to pop the common crossing. Consequently, I filed the common crossing area flat and rebuilt the common crossing using the association jig. This was then glued to the turnout. This was done in all to 6 turnouts. Someone else mentioned this problem in a Zoom meeting, although they threw the turnout away and built one from scratch. I also note that another mentioned the issue in a chapter post on the association website. It was suggested that the chairs had been damaged while assembling the common crossing. I thought this may have been the case initially, but a subsequent examination of the other turnouts before laying showed that the chairs were intact. After the turnouts were laid and wired, the test locomotive derailed at each turnout. Suspecting it may have been back-to-back, it was carefully checked and found correct. No bogie fouling was occurring. A closer examination of the turnouts showed each had warped to some degree. I hoped to straighten them out by removing all the tracks relaying using Caulk as an adhesive, a product I have used on many layouts with great success. It initially worked, but they have all warped again over time, some more than others. I resorted to packing turnouts and adjacent tracks, which again worked for a while, but derailing quickly returned. One day, it is alright, come back a few days later, and derailing occurs. It is a sort of random thing, never consecutively being the same turnout. One turnout had to be discarded, as it was beyond hope. One other member here in Oz @sithord75 mentioned he had had problems with Finetrax turnouts, but I am unsure whether they are the same problems I have. After some six months, the process has exhausted me physically and mentally. The stress has no doubt contributed to tenosynovitis in my wrist. So, where to from here? I'm not sure. I could salvage the track from the turnouts and rebuild them using the association parts. Maybe something else. I don't know. Winter has started here, and the workroom is very cold, so I have a little while to think about it. I have successfully built a couple of 4mm and HOm layouts, but this has never happened before. Indeed, the HOm layouts required good track work with operating catenary; otherwise, the pantographs get tangled up in the overhead wires. On the other hand, I hope that it is an Australian environmental thing, as Finetrax turnouts are very nicely engineered. A couple of photographs. First fix wiring Layout
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