MikeTrice Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The biggest benefit of posting techniques like these on RMWeb is that they can be picture intensive and take the reader through step-by-step. We also have the benefit of regular updates (hopefully) and the ability to ask stupid questions and get informed answers to them in a reasonable timescale, so please keep posting exactly as you are doing, even if you think it is too basic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Hi Peter, Write the book! I have been inspired to try and complete a Neilson box tank I started some years ago, you make everything accessible. Ian B Thanks Ian I wish you luck with the Neilson. I am very pleased you have been inspired. I am just trying to show that there is no secret mystic to scratch building, I think 90% is a state of mind and belief, a bit like life you make it as you go alongg and learn from the mistakes (hopefully). Peter We each take inspiration from those who have the ability to communicate on a level we can understand, especially when the methods used are within our own capabilities. I have never yet been able/ attempted to scratch build a loco in metal and is something after following your threads I plan to do. Cost of the project is an important reason, but for the modellers of us obtain much pleasure when building something from a kit and are rightly proud of our efforts. Being able to scratch build must be very satisfying indeed. Please keep your building methods coming. I for one would like to know what information you need prior to starting a project (idiots guide please) Thanks for showing the GA drawing but do you use other things as well Thanks It has been a surprise to me the reception this thread has had. I never feel that my work is good enough to inspire others. I constantly look at the work of others on here and elsewhere, wondering when I will be able to work to their standards. My scratch building began because of cost. I could not always afford kits, and kits 35 years ago needed a lot of work. I suppose the G6 I am building will probably cost just under £200. I tend to collect bits from that well know auction site for locos that I will want. I will get drawings from magazines etc, but the main source is books and photos. If I need to I will buy a book about the locos aswell if there is one available. The biggest benefit of posting techniques like these on RMWeb is that they can be picture intensive and take the reader through step-by-step. We also have the benefit of regular updates (hopefully) and the ability to ask stupid questions and get informed answers to them in a reasonable timescale, so please keep posting exactly as you are doing, even if you think it is too basic. Yes very much so. I think the question asking on a thread like this is the best bit. I wish I could of had such a body of knowledgeable people to ask questions to when I first started. I also think using a thread makes it possible to show updates to your methods as you progress. I often see that someone has come up with a different or better method than me, I will either copy or amend the way I work to accommodate it. This way hopefully you end up with better, quicker, or more accurate methods of working. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I have just come across the thread, read it through and looked at the video clips. Please keep this going, your explanations and demonstrations are spot on. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 ....the ability to ask stupid questions .... I'm just waiting for "JeffP" to make his appearance..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 OK, perhaps using the term "stupid" might be interpreted as a dig, although I was thinking of myself in this instance. A better description might be "basic questions". Either way, please keep the tips coming, as they are of real interest to a lot of your followers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 When I was at college the lecturers used to say the only stupid question was the one not asked. But now I am not to sure. I am sure there are some who do not engage brain before asking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 Today I needed to make the guard irons for the G6. To start I wanted to make them from nickel silver and 0.5mm. This is for strength as guard irons tend to be a little vulnerable. Fortunately the front and rear are close enough to being the same, so I can make all four at once. I had a look through my bits and bobs that are already in layers, I only had brass of the right thickness. I cut four pieces from a small off cut. These worked out to be just big enough. I then clean the faces by rubbing them on a sheet of wet and dry I use my finger but watch it your finger wears out quicker than the nickel. I then use a bulldog clip to hold them while I solder then together. When they are small like these I flood with flux and then the solder will track through by capillary. On larger bit you need to run the solder all the way around. On these I decided to use a cut out fro the drawing. You have to make them longer than on the drawing as they have a double bend in them. I glue the paper to the metal with Pritt Stick. It holds them enough for working on, and washes off with water, no sticky residue. I cut them out to the outside of the line, I made them about a millimeter longer top and bottom. I filled them down so they looked right rather than being to the shape of the plan, This is again due the the bends to get them inline with the wheels. The bottom will hopefully allow for the bend. The bit at the top is for a stronger joint. these are fitted to the inside of the frames so it will not show. Outside fitted ones have to be right at the top. I then took them apart. The photo is before cleaning up, on the same bit of wet and dry. A quick test to see how they looked. There is a little to do to the frames before I fit them. Hopefully I wlll fit them next time. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted June 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2015 Why were these not cut as part of the frame sides ? Is it because there would have been too much wasted metal ? Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 Why were these not cut as part of the frame sides ? Is it because there would have been too much wasted metal ? Stu Hi Stu I could of done them as part of the frames I 4mm I probably would of done As for material I do not think it saves anything. On the G6 they are fitted to the inside of the frames and I wanted to keep the step. There is also the advantage of if you mess up the shape or length it is easy to redo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Hayfield asked: "I for one would like to know what information you need prior to starting a project (idiots guide please)" Have a look for three books from Wild Swan. Some maybe out of print now, but you could always try e-bay. Scratch building Locomotives by Simon Bolton. New book and full of excellent information for the 'Tyro' scratch builder, and kit builder. Guy Williams 'The 4mm Engine' and the two volumes of Geoff Holts Scratch building. I may have the titles slightly wrong as I am not at my work bench to check but the Authors are correct and you should be able to find them easily enough. Good luck Regards Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I've never come across the Bolton book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKR Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Simon's book has only been out for 6-9 months. It's in his thread in this forum. It's a tricky topic to cover. From amateur to expert. Each will be looking for different things. But all of them are excellent (and in my collection ) I find these posts by N15, Sandy and Jazz etc. to be very informative and welcome. Especially since many kit makers are falling slowly to the trackside..... Long may they continue to post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Simon's book has only been out for 6-9 months.... Ah....I see it now. Does he cover tapered boilers in the book? Those are the ones that get a lot of people retreating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Ah....I see it now. Does he cover tapered boilers in the book? Those are the ones that get a lot of people retreating! The hardest part of tapered boiler is working the curve on each end. It can be worked out mathematically. There was and article in the MRJ IIRC that gave you the method. Or the way I do them it is to make a standard over length cone and carefully trim the ends if it is a flat bottomed boiler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Having made the guard irons now I need to fit them. The nickle silver I used for the frames is far to thick to press out the rivets that hold the irons in place. So I needed to to mark out the frames and drill three 0.8mm holes to take 0.7mm wire. Now if I had been thinking at the time I made the frames I could of done this all in the flat. Moral is think harder and work less. The marking out is not to clear, and the centre marking for the them was very awkward. Then the holes and the cleaned up ready for the irons. The irons were then soldered on the rear of the frames. I used the RSU for these as the probe can be used to hold the part in place as well as for fixing. I always have two or three goes trying to line up each pair. Once I was happy with all four, I drilled through each iron with the 0.8mm drill. I then soldered from behind a wire in each hole starting at the furthest in. I used a long wire and cropped of and then threaded it into the next hole. I like as little waste as possible. When all twelve were done I clean up most of the inside with a drum sanding disc. The outside with a needle file, a bit of wet and dry, (it helps to give them a rounded appearance, Then a going over with my small brass wire brush. The photos show one from each end. It took a little longer than I thought it would but I feel the end result was worth the effort. More later I not sure what I will be doing on G6 next. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Magic stuff: - well done that man! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Hayfield asked: "I for one would like to know what information you need prior to starting a project (idiots guide please)" Have a look for three books from Wild Swan. Some maybe out of print now, but you could always try e-bay. Scratch building Locomotives by Simon Bolton. New book and full of excellent information for the 'Tyro' scratch builder, and kit builder. Guy Williams 'The 4mm Engine' and the two volumes of Geoff Holts Scratch building. I may have the titles slightly wrong as I am not at my work bench to check but the Authors are correct and you should be able to find them easily enough. Good luck Regards Sandy Sandy I have a couple of those books, but my question was more directed to what information on the loco is needed. I do have a few books with plans in, but these are very basic. I am building a Beattie Well Tank from a Roxey Mouldings kit and the plans I have found may not be sufficient to enable one to scratch build. Secondly now armed with a desire to have a go, where to obtain the materials and also suppliers of the parts I could not make (I do realise I have not mentioned either a loco or company). For instance what thickness sheet should be used. In 4 mm Alan Gibson produces mainframes, are any available in 7 mm scale ?. As I and others have said who have not scratch built anything before, simple things that most take for granted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Sandy I have a couple of those books, but my question was more directed to what information on the loco is needed. I do have a few books with plans in, but these are very basic. I am building a Beattie Well Tank from a Roxey Mouldings kit and the plans I have found may not be sufficient to enable one to scratch build. Secondly now armed with a desire to have a go, where to obtain the materials and also suppliers of the parts I could not make (I do realise I have not mentioned either a loco or company). For instance what thickness sheet should be used. In 4 mm Alan Gibson produces mainframes, are any available in 7 mm scale ?. As I and others have said who have not scratch built anything before, simple things that most take for granted There are hundreds of suppliers providing 'bits' that are useful. Premier Components do milled loco frames etc Check out their website, JPL will also do the same and have a large range of castings etc.(no website) Laurie Griffin has an enormous catalogue of castings, again see his website. If you are not a member of the Gauge 0 Guild then I would recommend that you join, just for access to traders alone, it may be worth the membership. The books will advise on different type and size of materials needed for parts and can be obtained from Eileen's or Metal Smith to mention just two suppliers. Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Sandy Thanks, both added to bookmarks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 All good stuff. I never seem to be able to get beyond just getting the chassis running. All the dangly bits bits seem to conspire to catch /bend/break etc. As for pickups..... JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 All good stuff. I never seem to be able to get beyond just getting the chassis running. All the dangly bits bits seem to conspire to catch /bend/break etc. As for pickups..... JF Not sure about that the H you built looked the part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 I added so detail to the cab rear spectacle plate. I started by scribing the outline of the locker doors, For this I used a cutter designed for plasticard, it works well for light grooves. Next to represent the hinges four bits of 0.45mm wire 1,5mm long. I marked the locker so all were in the same place. They are soldered in the groove. I also fitted a piece of 0.25mm brass 4mmx1mm with rounded ends, across the centre groove as the latch. one end was drilled and a wire soldered as a pivot. The a hole was drilled under the bar on the opposite door. In this hole I formed a a wire as a keep. To do this I squashed about 1.5mm in the vice to make a flat. I then bent this to 90 degrees, filed the edges to the same width as the wire and radiused the top. Then soldered it into the hole. To the top of the tool boxes I added a strip of 1mm wide 0.25 brass to represent a leather hinge I have assumed they would of had a wooden lid. Here is a picture of the spectacle plate in place. I have sorted out the handle on the coal hole but that was after the photo. Not sure whether this is correct for the loco but they are all plausible. if anyone knows better or has photos I will change it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) Not sure about that the H you built looked the part. It looked the part but it took 2 chassis and 3 motor gearboxes! Any attempts at suspension/compensation or other fancy worky bits were not considered. The brakes and sanding gear were also kept unprototypically far away from the wheels to avoid any chance of them causing problems too...and I still struggled to get it to run smoothly JF Edited July 4, 2015 by Jon Fitness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I added so detail to the cab rear spectacle plate. I started by scribing the outline of the locker doors, For this I used a cutter designed for plasticard, it works well for light grooves. a.jpg b.jpg Next to represent the hinges four bits of 0.45mm wire 1,5mm long. I marked the locker so all were in the same place. They are soldered in the groove. I also fitted a piece of 0.25mm brass 4mmx1mm with rounded ends, across the centre groove as the latch. one end was drilled and a wire soldered as a pivot. e.jpg c.jpg d.jpg The a hole was drilled under the bar on the opposite door. In this hole I formed a a wire as a keep. To do this I squashed about 1.5mm in the vice to make a flat. I then bent this to 90 degrees, filed the edges to the same width as the wire and radiused the top. Then soldered it into the hole. f.jpg g.jpg h.jpg To the top of the tool boxes I added a strip of 1mm wide 0.25 brass to represent a leather hinge I have assumed they would of had a wooden lid. Here is a picture of the spectacle plate in place. I have sorted out the handle on the coal hole but that was after the photo. Not sure whether this is correct for the loco but they are all plausible. if anyone knows better or has photos I will change it. Hi Pete, did you use the RSU for any of the latch/hinge fittings or just a normal soldering iron? Also 145 or 188 solder? Looks really neat too! JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Hi Pete, did you use the RSU for any of the latch/hinge fittings or just a normal soldering iron? Also 145 or 188 solder? Looks really neat too! JF Hi Jon I used a normal iron and 188 for the wires on the latch, and the RSU for the hinges and latch. I have 145 but never seem to get on with it. I find it does not flow so well, unless I just do it wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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