Umber is the New Black

[Edwardian]

What a great little station, thanks, Penlan and Kevin.

 

I note with particular interest the text "The style is red-brick and flint, characteristic of the 1846 constructions between Worthing and Chichester", thus, making the style suitable for my little coastal adventure.

 

However, Northroader has counselled simplicity and, if I ever manage to leave Norfolk, I may feel like a break from flint and red-brick construction!  Mind you, omit the Station Master's house and Goods Shed and the single story section makes a nice little station.  I had thought wooden construction, and, I suspect that the station needs to date from at least the 1880s, rather than the 1840s, in order to coincide with the hotel it serves.  

 

So, a good candidate might be Fittleworth station building.  It is wooden and dates from 1889, and is just small and modest enough for the job.  It has been modelled (features in the Pre-Grouping layouts thread) and is the subject of a good many photographs and of Vivien Thompson drawings.

 

The arrangement, however, would be as with Dyke Station and the West Chiltington layout (which, I believe, also looks to Fittleworth), with a small platform-mounted signal box near the station building and a goods siding running behind the platform.

 

So, what if we have something between a halt and a passing station, something effectively a beach station for a small coastal community and its the hotel it has latterly sprouted?

 

Though the station pre-dates the Motor Train craze, it would be a prime candidate for the introduction of such services.  Setting the layout, say, 1905-1914 would achieve this.

 

As this would be a micro-project, only the shortest trains would be accommodated, so it is best to have a variety of them.  I tentatively suggest:

 

• An IEG livered & named A1, running as a 2-4-0 with the leading wheels replaced, plus Balloon trailer in umber & white.  I am, of course, thinking of the picture of BOXHILL at Worthing.

 

• An umber A1, also with Balloon trailer in umber and white - out of respect for the title of the thread.

 

• A steam railcar, because, after all, this would be a layout of the poster.

 

• A petrol railcar.

 

• A very short pick-up goods

 

Like Dyke Station, there can be a siding for goods running behind the passenger platform.  As, when funds permit, I was going for the SMP 4-points deal,  I would have a spare, as I think Castle Aching will only require 3 points. So, the cost of this Sussex Coast micro-layout is not much more than a few extra lengths of flexi-track.

 

Also, like Dyke Station, there can be a platform-mounted signal box adjacent to the station building.  The sadly defunct ABM Railcraft range would have been a Godsend, but, fortunately I have a Vivien Thompson drawing of a similar cabin from Chichester that I can enlarge from 2mm scale.

 

The second platform might boast a small shelter, like the Cooksbridge one Northroader referred to.

 

The set up is probably going to permit a 4' to 5' scenic section with short fiddle yards either end.

 

Some pictures to set the scene:

Edited January 28, 2016 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

Ah, West Runton, a lovely little Norfolk station, thanks Kevin.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Edwardian

[BlueLightning]

Hi Edwardian,

 

I have some drawings of platform mounted Saxby & Farmer type signal boxes from the 1880's that I can PM you if you are interested.

 

Gary

[Edwardian]

Yes, please, Gary, and many thanks.

[Nick Holliday]

There's a much better drawing of Fittleworth station building in an early British Railway Journal which has an extensive feature on the station, but can't remember which issue off the top of my head.  That's the one I used to build my P4 version of the station for the Scalefour Challenge.  The signal box there is full of character, being built on the side of the embankment, but there isn't a drawing for it, just a very good Wallis front elevation photo. In the 1880's the LBSC was in the grip of a Myers' building frenzy, a la Midhurst, Sheffield Park etc., so beware anything from that era if you want to remain different,

[Nearholmer]

Who built "West Chiltington"?

 

I have a very dim memory that it might have been someone who was a member of Uckfield club in the late 70s.

 

K

[ChrisN]

What a lovely south coast station, and what lovely buildings.  Sounds like a plan to me.

[Nearholmer]

Thanks, Simon.

 

Barry Luck. Hmmm....... I have a feeling that he might have built a 00 or EM layout called "Five Ash Down" in about 1979, then started to build "West Chiltington" c1981/2 ......

 

K

[Edwardian]

Cooksbridge.  Just a thought, if I am using a station building and signal box from the late 1880s, notionally to tie-in with the development of the Bay as a resort, I ought to ensure that any platform shelter fits the chronology.  Cooksbridge was, I believe, opened in 1847, but I suspect the platform shelter is more recent, but can we attribute a date range to this style?

Edited January 31, 2016 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

Details of timber-work look very similar to the platform buildings at Eridge, to me, and they date from when the station was reconfigured in preparation for the opening of the Cuckoo Line ....... I think the brick built part of the station was a sort of "previous design-family to Myers-model" crossover.

 

Aren't the timber-built bits of Horsted Keynes very similar too? (No, they aren't!)

 

And, I have a feeling that this ''Cooksbridge" building crops up elsewhere too. Buxted, Up side, maybe, as an instance?

 

An LBSCR or favoured-contractor standard item?

 

K

Edited February 1, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

I can see the resemblance in style to the Eridge under-canopy structure.  I imagine this basic style of wooden structure was a long-lived formula.

 

Buxted, as you identify, seems to be a good match.  That station was opened in 1868, but, again, I would not assume that the shelter is that old.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

That's a picture of cruelty to a very lovely station!

You can see things better in this.

K

Edited February 1, 2016 by Andy Y
Image removed - copyright

[Nearholmer]

And, here is a handy DIY guide http://www.amberleynarrowgauge.co.uk/brockham-shelter.htm

 

Or r-t-r (I'm not serious!).

 

K

Edited February 1, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

The station building and signal box needn't necessarily "match", in being built in at the same time. Possibly the station building would be built first, possibly if it was done as a temporary flea pit, or it was burnt down, it could have been replaced much later. Likewise putting up a box with interlocking could have been down the priority of importance for that place. So if you find a building of either which appeals, build it, and no one can say yea or nay.

[Andy Y]

Can I please ask that you do not copy and re-publish images which are the property of others - several above clearly have copyright notices on them.

 

If the image or content appears elsewhere on the internet please just provide a link to it.

 

It may be worth mentioning that if you breach someone's copyright they could send you a bill for using their images so do it at your peril!

[Edwardian]

It's  funny how the neglected Kemp Town keeps cropping up in my researches.  It seems to have been a particular haunt of motor trains.  Here is a shot of a Rooter in the 2-4-0 configuration discussed above.  Fair point about copyright; in deference to Andy, apart from the fact that I have manipulated the image somewhat, so far as I know the only copyright is that of a dead Edwardian, so I think we're OK.

 

Note how odd it looks having a redundant front splasher, and the addition of a sand box below the footplate, rather like that later added to the A1X in front of the lead driver. 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Edwardian

[justin1985]

I'm sure copyright has been discussed extensively elsewhere on RMWeb, and this isn't the place to dive into it, but I think you have to be careful even when the theoretical copyright is long expired because of "publication right". If the photograph was taken before 1946 there is no longer any copyright (otherwise death of photographer+70 years) BUT if the image has not previously been published or displayed in public, the first person to publish or display it acquires "publication right" (broadly similar to copyright) for 25 years. If the image originates in a library or archive collection, you might well find that the archive has asserted these rights, and probably made whoever took the image (or ordered it from their image supply service) undertake not to publish or distribute it without permission, even if it is out of copyright. e.g. the British Library can be very strict on this, but the National Archives embrace Creative Commons.  Local archives will often demand a fee, not least because they are so starved of other funding or sources of income.

 

In any case, I love the images you've posted, so please don't stop! (scan of a whole book page might be a different matter though)

[corneliuslundie]

The whole business of copyright got complicated last May when the UK implemented some EU regulations, viz the awful issue of "orphan copyright". And I don't think that the pre 1946 statement above is still correct. But let's not get bogged down with that.

 

As stated above, the box would probably have been built when the line was interlocked, which would have been somewhere in the 1870s on most lines - though some companies were pretty tardy. So it is unlikely to be the same date as the station unless the station was also from that period and was not rebuilt later - and rebuilding is unlikely for the kind of station we are looking at.

 

Jonathan

[Edwardian]

Now, here is a shot taken from a postcard that I had not seen before.  No.1 on the Eastbourne service.  I don't think that either Newbury or Gould contain drawings of the railcars, does anyone know of any?

[Penlan]

Now, here is a shot taken from a postcard that I had not seen before.  No.1 on the Eastbourne service.  I don't think that either Newbury or Gould contain drawings of the railcars, does anyone know of any?

Interesting,  as a friend who has just got to the completed 'brass' stage (and running) a TVR Railmotor, he had looked for a copy of these (LBSCR) Railmotors drawings and photo's too, and found nothing (Although I've Googled Images and found both LBSCR and LSWR images (though not drawings) with ease. 

Apparently (and I quote him) " ... I looked for a photo and drawing and could not find one.

Tom Hurry Riches, TVR CME, went to the both the LBSCR and LSWR to check out their designs.

Obviously he got some ideas from the visit.

The TVR were going to buy cylinders and other bits from the LSWR but despite an agreement this did not happen and they bought their own. Supposedly because the (LSWR) cylinders were considered too small, which is interesting because when the TVR loaned one of the early units to the L & Y, they were not impressed because they said that it was not powerful enough (it needed bigger cylinders)...".

 

Anyway this is his 'Brass' model, still to be completed, but running trials are succesfull, , the chimney is a 3d printed affair...  The basis for the kit is the late Colin Chapman's (thin) brass etchings of many a year ago.

P.S. At least the TVR coach doesn't have all those open toplights to be modelled... 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I know it's off topic, a bit (I've mentioned LBSCR twice), but when has that been a terrible sin... 

Edited February 2, 2016 by Penlan

[Penlan]

I notice these are all outside cylinders, the LNWR's (maybe others) where inside cylinders. 

I'm glad I model the LNWR, the Railmotor on Penlan (Mk's 3 & 4) has been running for nearly 30 years on the layouts, but it still has to have the seating fitted....

Edited February 2, 2016 by Penlan

[Nearholmer]

That has to be about the best photo of one of these cars that I've seen; I don't think I have ever seen a drawing, except for a very rough sketch in Kidner's book, but that doesn't mean there isn't a drawing somewhere.

 

However, if no drawing can be found, ht reduces the probability that someone will tell you "it's all wrong" when you produce a drawing from leading dimensions and photos, as I'm guessing you will.

 

And, yes, I think it is +/- identical with the Knotty ones.

 

K

[BG John]

If you've got the main dimensions, you could alter the perspective in GIMP to get side and end elevations, then either take measurements off it, or draw over it.

[Penlan]

Try this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64700-help-please-nth-staffs-lbsc-railmotor/&do=findComment&comment=855567

As 'Bundeena2230' was starting the kit after Christmas 2012, I wonder how he's getting on ? 

[Northroader]

The thread quoted above gives a good drawing for the NSR railcar. These were built by Beyer Peacock just before the LBSC ordered theirs, and the Brighton ones appear to be close copies with minor modifications. The same drawing is repeated in the HMRS journal vol 17, no 8 with end elevation and plan, in a series about NSR coaches. In the GOG gazette, August 2010, PJ Wisdom built the LBSC version. To get information he put in a request in the Brighton circular, and was directed to the BP archive in the Manchester museum of science and technology, who sent him a copy of the general arrangement drawing of the loco portion only, with some works photos of the NSR car. Nothing in the Newbury LBSC coaches book.