Hodbarrow Hematite Mine

[Castleacreshunter]

Found an interesting short clip on You Tube Hodbarrow Hematite Mine -Iron Side Tipper.Gives some ideas for a small layout.

 

Malcolm.

[Mark Saunders]

Found an interesting short clip on You Tube Hodbarrow Hematite Mine -Iron Side Tipper.Gives some ideas for a small layout.

 

Malcolm.

 

Can we have a link please?

 

Mark Saunders

[jamie92208]

Here's the link, it's a great clip and wow a 4 way point at 1.40 I'd love to model that.

 

 

Jamie

[MarcD]

I think there is also a clip of the crane tank at work but I cant find it.

 

Marc

[Dava]

So atmospheric to see this. Hodbarrow was a fascinating system, archaic till the end.

Would love to see a similar film of Snipey the Neilson crane tank (still at Lytham?)

 

Archive magazine had a feature on Hodbarrow a couple of years back, Backtrack also covered it.

 

Dava

[MarcD]

I have a half built Snipey crane tank from Roxey kit.

 

Cant find the film think it was on the Beamish website.

 

Marc

[PGH]

I visited Hodbarrow Mine only once, in May 1966, as part of a one day "bash" of standard gauge industrial steam in Cumbria.  After driving overnight the first early morning call was at Millom Ironworks.  An advance official request to view the locos had been refused, but the loco shed was adjacent to a back gate so no problems in gaining entry.  12 steam locos were noted but it wasn't really light enough for my attempts at photography.  Next was Hodbarrow where 'SNIPEY' the Neilson crane tank and Hudswell Clarke 1742 were being prepared for work in the "loco shed" - actually only a floor as the loco shed building had been blown down in a gale in 1934 and never replaced.  Nearby were the remains of Peckett 1719, only a chassis minus cab tank and boiler.  Avonside 1563 was in the workshop under repair and inside another building was Hunslet 299 which I noted as 'spare loco', but also 'firebox gone' so it wouldn't have been much use if actually needed.  A third building housed Kerr Stuart 4009, minus saddle tank and with its boiler condemned.  Except for the crane tank all these were 0-4-0STs.  The sketch map below shows the sprawling nature of the layout around the workshops area, the four way point shown in the Youtube video is just to the right of the "w.b." (weighbridge) left centre on the plan.

 

 

The iron bodied side tippers (as shown leading the train in the Youtube video) were unusual, being quite small for standard gauge wagons.  They were built at Hodbarrow with a steel (or wrought iron ?) body on cast iron supports with a timber chassis.  Maybe the bodies at least originated in the wagons used on the 3 foot gauge system between the mine and the shipping pier, which was abandoned in 1877. 

 

 

There were also several ancient 'Ship Canal' type wooden tip wagons used to carry sand excavated from the former beach area behind the sea wall to the mine shaft, where it was pumped underground to fill mined out areas.

 

After Hodbarrow the next call was Workington Steelworks where permission to view the locomotives had been granted.  A total of 12 steam were seen, mostly out of use and awaiting scrapping but one Robert Stephenson 0-6-0ST was in use with another two similar locos in steam on stand-by.  Then various collieries:  Solway - 2 steam (1 in use);  Risehow - 2 steam (1 in use);  St.Helens - 4 steam (1 in use);  Lowca - 3 steam (2 in use);  Whitehaven Harbour - 2 steam (both in use);  Ladysmith - 7 steam (3 in use).  Finally Marchon Products - 2 steam, both in use as the diesel loco was under repair.  Total of industrial steam locos seen on that day = 52.

 

For further information on Hodbarrow I can recommend the book "Millom - A Cumberland Iron Town and its Railways", which includes a chapter on Hodbarrow Mine and another on Millom Ironworks, published in 2012 by the Cumbrian Railways Association.

[jamie92208]

Thanks PGH for that excellent and informative post.  I wanted to tick several ratings at once.  I can also reccomend the CRA book about Millom and it's railways.  I did see Industrial steam in West Cumberland and also once visted the Marchon system but only after dieselisation, however I was allowed to look round the winding house and took some photos of the incline in operation along with the brickworks line that ran under the incline about halfway dwn and used overhead rope haulage for the clay tubs.   Somewhere I've got the photos but would have to scan them but would be happy to post them if anyone is interested even if it takes the thread a bit off topic.

 

Jamie

[5050]

Here's the link, it's a great clip and wow a 4 way point at 1.40 I'd love to model that.

 

 

Jamie

Me too Jamie!  Might be easier than the double slip.  I wonder what the scale radius is of the track the loco negotiates?  It appears to take it very carefully.

[PGH]

Thanks PGH for that excellent and informative post.  I wanted to tick several ratings at once.  I can also reccomend the CRA book about Millom and it's railways.  I did see Industrial steam in West Cumberland and also once visted the Marchon system but only after dieselisation, however I was allowed to look round the winding house and took some photos of the incline in operation along with the brickworks line that ran under the incline about halfway dwn and used overhead rope haulage for the clay tubs.   Somewhere I've got the photos but would have to scan them but would be happy to post them if anyone is interested even if it takes the thread a bit off topic.

 

Jamie

 

Thanks for your comments Jamie.  I for one would certainly like to see your photos of the Marchon Incline, perhaps worth starting a new topic on that subject which could also include the NCB incline down to Whitehaven Harbour - I could add a few photos on that.

 

However, being pessimistic, there doesn't seem a great deal of interest in prototype s.g. industrial railway information and I sometimes wonder whether it's actually worth the effort.

[Osgood]

…..However, being pessimistic, there doesn't seem a great deal of interest in prototype s.g. industrial railway information and I sometimes wonder whether it's actually worth the effort.

 

If you can see me waving from the back row (the lecture room seems to be crammed full of very quiet people) - "well worth the effort" in my view, as quality information on industrial railways is hard to come by.  If you were not lucky enough to be there yourself it is often difficult to get a good feel (so beneficial for modelling purposes) for these industrial systems.  If it is not recorded somehow along the way such information will eventually be unavailable to anyone.

 

     (Edit:  For example your map of Hodbarrow circa 1960 contains a little more detail than the already informative map circa 1950s in Atkinson's book MILLOM.)

 

My main interest of ironstone quarrying systems is one area which - thanks mainly to the works of the late Eric Tonks and a handful of photographers prepared to share their images - is well served by publications offering a reasonable grounding in the subject.  But there is always something new to learn - even from the odd photograph.  Other industries are not so well served.

 

Do please continue making the results of your own industrial line experiences available to others - I'm sure there are many of us who really appreciate your effort.

[Dava]

I agree that a relatively small number of people will have quite a deep & continuing interest in these industrial railway photos, films, maps, drawings & narratives.

 

Also more people will accidentally discover them on this forum and become interested than will go delving in the IRS archives or wherever. So please - Jamie and others - post your archival material here, or give links to where we can find it.

 

There is interest - in another thread - on the Aberdeen Gasworks Railway which has prompted me to go discover material out there, prompted by a question from a new enquirer. There's so much out there.  Digitising collections like the Ruston Archive [however imperfectly] will help make it available for the future.

 

I realise I have 35mm photos & negs from the 80s-2000's which I need to sift through and upload any interesting items! Not many I fear.

 

See you at Telford/Chasewater/Loughborough over the weekend.

 

Dava

[Ruston]

However, being pessimistic, there doesn't seem a great deal of interest in prototype s.g. industrial railway information and I sometimes wonder whether it's actually worth the effort.

It is definitely worth the effort. I for one appreciate information and photographs on the prototype. Please do continue to post them.

 

 

I do wonder if it is in the right place: rather than layouts, the special interests area strikes me as more appropriate, and might raise the profile a smidgin.

 

When Andy Y first started the special interest groups I asked to have a standard gauge industrial group. At the top of the group is a sticky post where I put the subjects covered and explained that the group was for modelling and prototype - systems, rolling stock locos etc.

 

A few weeks ago we were moved to prototype but as the group covers modelling we were moved into the same section as layouts. As the special interests are no longer visible from the main forum page I think we would get less exposure if we were moved back into special interests.

 

I don't really care if my own layouts don't get lots of views but what I would like to acheive is to get more people interested in industrial railways and the modelling of. So the more viewers the better.

 

Of course it's not up to me to decide where this section goes but my personal opinion is that it should be a stand-alone section as it covers both modelling and prototype but is more than a special interest (such as one line or a particular class of locomotives).

[Kelly]

Certainly has a certain amount of charm to it. that 4way would be interesting to build, I'm sure Templot could do it with combination of some of the videos Martin has already done for a 3 way and a bit of tinkering.

 

Narrow gauge industrial railways seem to capture peoples attention more than standard gauge, but they're both equally interesting to my mind.

[rockershovel]

I just about saw the last gasps of steam on the Northants ironstone lines, and had a passing acquaintance with the trackbeds (which remained in use as agricultural access tracks, in some cases to the present day). I've never seen it modelled.

 

Most of the Northsnts/Rutland/S Leics industrial lines were SG, though; cement and ironstone.

[Barry O]

I just about saw the last gasps of steam on the Northants ironstone lines, and had a passing acquaintance with the trackbeds (which remained in use as agricultural access tracks, in some cases to the present day). I've never seen it modelled.

Most of the Northsnts/Rutland/S Leics industrial lines were SG, though; cement and ironstone.

There was (is?) A layout..the Eastwell Ironstone Company which Swindon123 has a hand in. It hasn't been out and about for the last ten years but hopefully it will reappear.

A lot of exhibition managers don't always like industrial layouts so they don't get invited out and about.

Baz

[MarcD]

Just thought these may be of interest as they all ended up at hodbarrow at some point in there running lives

 

Marc

 

[rockershovel]

There was (is?) A layout..the Eastwell Ironstone Company which Swindon123 has a hand in. It hasn't been out and about for the last ten years but hopefully it will reappear.

A lot of exhibition managers don't always like industrial layouts so they don't get invited out and about.

Baz

 

 

I followed this up and found that it had a connection with the Market Deeping MRC. last night was club night, so I put the question about and this is the reply, slightly edited because I'm not sure of the etiquette of referring to non-forum members, or members for that matter, by name. I've left names which are already in print in other articles, in their complete form;

 

"I was Hon Sec MDMRC in the late 1970's/early 1980's and was also (at the age of 21!) the club's Exhibition Manager for the East of England Show in Peterborough in 1980 & 1981 before the role passed back to [the previous incumbent]. I was also a 'regular guest' operator on the various versions.

 

The reason Eastwell was a regular was mainly social, several the Eastwell and Deeping EM sections would reciprocate hosting weekends of beer and railways away from home!.....and this still happens informally or through the EMGS, [various) club members ...went to see one of the main players... for a pub lunch and a look at his new layout only last month (volumes of beer have fallen right off these days though!).

 

Eastwell was originally Sherdington and was originally very large and L-shaped when it came to the club's second show at the Deeping Leisure Centre in 1979. I booked them again for The Cresset in 1980 and 1981. They came back to The Cresset in 1982 and 1983 with The Eastwell Ironstone Company - this was the shorter version which was in some place reported as being made to come to Peterborough but was in reality a stop gap while the large Eastwell was being made even larger and U-shaped. Some boards were owned by individuals an not IWEMRC.

 

One young 14 year old Ilford member...., came with the 'grown ups' (not that we were at all!) in those days....he is now a MDMRC member.

 

Around this time some members started to do their own thing in parallel but Ilford's EM group started to fragment after the untimely death of Eastwell's driving force Alan Browning in 1987. 

 

The smaller Eastwell Ironstone side of things went with Paul James when he move back to Herefordshire. He developed it into a much larger but modern image layout which again came here and was on the circuit for quite a while. I photographed this for BRM August 1994. It is still in existence but is stored out of use (Paul has two full sized shunters now to play with - the 04 he owns once worked BSC Botolph Sidings in Peterborough).

 

The club developed the original Eastwell Station part of the layout which also was on the circuit. Again I photographed it for BRM May 1997. 

 

By this time the various boards had been bought from the club and the East London Finescale Group (which includes Geoff and myself) had been formed. We are custodians of Alan Browning's Coleorton spin off EM layout and also have most of (Alan's) original Eastwell rolling stock. Eastwell Station is in need of attention but has been retired (out of use) to a shed in Essex - waiting for Gary to retire so he can work on it? 

 

Hope this helps - the BRM articles will give a fuller story if you haven't already read them"

[sir douglas]

Statfold barn have a Hunslet 0-4-0 called "Hodbarrow" so im guessing its from this system

http://geoffspages.co.uk/raildiary/statfold_hc1238_htm_files/682.jpg

[2mm Andy]

Statfold barn have a Hunslet 0-4-0 called "Hodbarrow" so im guessing its from this system

 

 

Yes, that's Hunslet 299 as mentioned in PGH's post near the top of this thread. It used to be stored dismantled at Armley Mills museum in Leeds until it moved to Statfold a few years ago and was cosmetically restored.

 

Avonside 1563 is now at the Foxfield Railway undergoing restoration to working order and I think the Neilson crane tank is still at Lytham. Hudswell 1742 has been restored to steam at Quainton but I didn't see it when I visited last in May this year.

 

There is also one of the side-tipping wagons at Beamish;

 

http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=14430

 

Andy

[5050]

It is definitely worth the effort. I for one appreciate information and photographs on the prototype. Please do continue to post them.

 

 

 

When Andy Y first started the special interest groups I asked to have a standard gauge industrial group. At the top of the group is a sticky post where I put the subjects covered and explained that the group was for modelling and prototype - systems, rolling stock locos etc.

 

A few weeks ago we were moved to prototype but as the group covers modelling we were moved into the same section as layouts. As the special interests are no longer visible from the main forum page I think we would get less exposure if we were moved back into special interests.

 

I don't really care if my own layouts don't get lots of views but what I would like to acheive is to get more people interested in industrial railways and the modelling of. So the more viewers the better.

 

Of course it's not up to me to decide where this section goes but my personal opinion is that it should be a stand-alone section as it covers both modelling and prototype but is more than a special interest (such as one line or a particular class of locomotives).

I hadn't noticed that it had moved!

 

Wake up that boy at the back !

[Dava]

Is there an escape committee for Snipey the crane tank? I saw it at Lytham back in 82 when the museum was still open, beautifully restored (static). Best to be undercover but would be good to be on public view.

 

Dava

[MarcD]

Roxey Mouldings produce a 7mm White metal and Nickel silver kit that could with a few extra parts (ie extra drive to the crane) be built into Snipey.

 

Marc

[PGH]

A trawl of the 'net resulted in the purchase of the booklet "Locos and Machinery of the Hodbarrow Mines Millom" from the Millom Discovery Centre at:  http://millomdiscoverycentre.co.uk  for £5.00 (reduced from £10.00) + £3.50 postage  

 

 

 

A modest publication of 50 pages by a former fitter who started work at Hodbarrow in 1938.  If you have a particular interest in Hodbarrow it would probably be worth buying, otherwise maybe not.  The text is fairly brief and the only worthwhile photo of a loco is the one on the cover.

 

They also have the Cumbrian Railways Association book "Millom: A Cumberland Iron Town and its Railways" at £14.00

[Down_Under]

Just wanted to say, many many thanks PGH for sharing - I find industrial history fascinating. I hardly saw any of it growing up being a 80s child, but saw many relics growing up in the NW England and outside of Edinburgh.  Always wondered what was there, or what was that from.

 

So big a Thank you!

 

J