timbowilts Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Good evening folks I'm beginning a quest to take a Hornby Dublo GNR N2 body and turn it into a TVR unrebuilt A class. Has anyone else out there in RMWeb-land tried this one? It looks do-able given that I will have to 1) Remove the front sandboxes 2) Shorten the bunker 3) Give it a belpaire firebox 4) Extend the front overhang Any thoughts gratefully received Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Go for it. Every H-D/Wrenn 'N2' body attacked minutely increases the standard of realism overall of 4mm models. (Let's face it, this item not only fails to look anything like an N2, but also fails to suggest any alternative UK steam loco class...) I would suggest a careful measure up of the body against whatever drawing you have of the TVR A class, to ensure that the relative positions of footplate, boiler centreline, tank and cab dimensions and positions are not too far adrift. While savaging an N2 body will hopefully boast the attraction of economy, I know where I would look first for the basis of a RTR bash to arrive at a TVR 0-6-2T. That would be Bachmann's LBSCR E4, a very typical example of a late Victorian 0-6-2T design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 The Belpaire should be easy enough, invert the body on something solid and give the firebox top a few good whacks with a hammer and drift. The tanks need rounding off with the wife's best nail file. The splashers should succumb to a few hours with a Dremel or a few seconds with a black and decker then its whack on some numberplates and 20mm or 20.6 mm drivers everyone will still think its a H/D N2 with GWR numbers changed. The A class is a useful loco as they were well liked as passenger locos with their larger wheels and dare we mention it, better balancing than the GW 56XX. Originally Westinghouse fitted the GW changed them to Vacuum brake and they were replaced by BR std 3MT tanks, which could not time the trains until loadings were reduced. The Russel book of Absorbed GWR locos has good pics and there is another H/D look alike from the Rhymney Rly the R1 which is to my eye even more like the H/D N2. It has 4'6" wheels which are noticeably smaller than the H/D and vestigial splashers but the squared off tanks and bunker are H/D like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2017 The unrebuilt Cameron 'A' class had a quite distinctive cab profile that will not be provided by the HD/Wrenn body, but you should be able to produce a passable model with a slightly adapted version of DC's method. I would worry about the wheel spacing being too far apart on the HD chassis, and suggest the Mainline/Dapol 2251 Collett Goods (the wheel diameter is only an inch out, which you won't notice), but you'll need to replace the coupling rods with parallel fluted ones. I suspect the E4 chassis is also a bit long in the wheelbase, but have not investigated it closely. DC is on to something with the Rhymney engine as well, if that is appropriate for your layout. HD once marketed the 0-6-2 tank in GW livery presumably in an attempt to represent one of the several Stephenson's tanks inherited by the GW at the grouping, which included Rhymney, B & M, N & B, and R & SB examples, all built to very similar outlines. The Rhynmey engines lasted until, I believe, 1956, and several carried BR livery. The 'A's were very popular at Barry, where their larger driving wheels gave them a better range than the 56xx over the Vale of Glamorgan line trains from Cardiff; they needed less water for a given distance, and they were more capable of the 50mph line speed of that route than the 56xx, as well as better riding. Apparently, the original boilers did not steam as well as they should have, and the GW boilers fitted to the rebuilt engines were considered a great success. One wonders what might have happened had Collett built a 56xx variant with 5'2" wheels (76xx?), a fairly obvious trick which he did in reverse with the 54xx/64xx/74xx panniers, and one assumes that he didn't because he already had the relatively modern and rebuilt 'A's, although maybe space beneath the boiler was an issue. The boilers were very high set on both engines, and on the TVR rebuilt 04s as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Is there not another thread on here with a conversion to if not the A class something else from the Welsh Valleys, from memory is was stated that the body was closer to the GWR loco than the N2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 A bit here about a N2 into a RR R class, this might be what I was confusing it with http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113381-dublo-n2-tank/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 Folks, there is no concern about the HD chassis wheel spacing as I only bought a body shell. I'm not aiming for 100% fidelity as I only have the Russel book weight diagram of the rebuilt A class together with all the photgraphs in "Six railways to Merthyr" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 As the original perpetrator of the Dublo N2 thread, I'd better say something here (or perhaps not, but I will anyway!). As previously stated the beast only bares a passing resemblance to an N2 Tank, though for 1938 it was a scale model! The principal divergences are the cab and that she's generally undersized - the wheelbase is almost spot on for H0 scale! Meccano Ltd. were under the impression that replacing the dome with a poor representation of a GWR safety valve casing, painting her dark green and adding transfers of GWR lettering (pre-war 'shirt button' and post-war 'G W R') and a '6699' plate made a 56xx. I am certain the result fooled nobody. (The LMS and SR versions also looked little like the real 6917 (an LNWR design) and 2594 (an LBSCR E5)). However that is irrelevant for attempts to make something of South Wales origin from one. A serious attempt is going to involve much cutting and filing of tough zinc alloy. Many years ago I started this very conversion and gave up. The poor thing ended up in the bin! an exact model is not going to happen, but something passible is certainly possible. The main problem is the high boiler centreline of the N2. This prototype was presumably chosen for this reason to accomodate their vertical armature/give room for a spring drive. I wouldn't advise the hammer technique however. Zinc alloy is a very unforgiving material and objects strenuously to any attempt to bend it. This may help in selecting a prototype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_0-6-2T_locomotives Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 5, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2017 Folks, there is no concern about the HD chassis wheel spacing as I only bought a body shell. I'm not aiming for 100% fidelity as I only have the Russel book weight diagram of the rebuilt A class together with all the photgraphs in "Six railways to Merthyr" If you are not using the HD chassis, then as you say there is no concern about it, and with the fairly high pitched N2 boiler you should be able to fiddle about with chimneys, domes, and belpaire tops to make a passable 'A'; the toughest part of the job will probably be rounding the tank top edges. Good luck from a fellow South Wales modeller with a half-built Nu Cast rebuilt 'A' and no layout suitable for it to run on... I may finish it for fun one day as a Dyffryn Yard engine and give it an occasional outing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 There is a kit for a Taff Vale A in original condition - possibly built by Lester? We (the Cardiff 4mm Group) run examples on our Ynysybwl layout. I don't think they are particularly hard to built, provided you can solder. If you are going for detail there are significant differences between the various engines, depending on who built them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 john-Miles, any contact details? My Google searches have turned up nothing. Perhaps we can persuade the new owners of Dragon Models to release the 7mm kit in 4mm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 john-Miles, any contact details? My Google searches have turned up nothing. Perhaps we can persuade the new owners of Dragon Models to release the 7mm kit in 4mm? I would try Dragon models as a first contact. Chris would know who has the kit now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted April 6, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2017 Lester is long gone. I have their two RR kits and they were not at all easy to build. My friend ended up making a new chassis for one. Chris Basten no longer owns Dragon, though he or someone else may know what happened to Lester. I seem to remember some link with another firm of doubtful quality via the draughtswoman. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted April 6, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2017 Look out for a Cotswold/Nucast kit as per the one shown in the Cwmafon thread by Mike Edge http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78572-cwmafon/page-4&do=findComment&comment=1282888 Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Unfortunately they are like hens teeth. But hopefully they will get reissued at some point by SEF/Branchlines. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 I have approached the new owners of Dragon Models about doing the unrebuilt A class in 4mm and they are looking into it. The rebuilt one is more of a problem as it has a resin boiler Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2017 Look out for a Cotswold/Nucast kit as per the one shown in the Cwmafon thread by Mike Edge http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78572-cwmafon/page-4&do=findComment&comment=1282888 Baz Think the OP wants an unrebuilt version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 Yes the OP, me, does want an unrebuilt one as I intend to portray the period just around the Grouping Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 88C Posted April 8, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2017 I believe the Lester kits are now with Derek Harris of Redcraft but they are etches only. The list of Redcraft kits that I have does not include the Taff Vale A. I will double check when I have chance. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 I met the owner of two Taff A class today and asked him who built the kit. Apparently they were a private job for someone in the Newport Model Railway club and not a Lester kit. My apologies for misleading everybody. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 9, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 9, 2017 There are some bits of the Nu-Cast kit that would be useful, in fact most of it except the boiler, cab, and bunker; you need to be working on those anyway if you are using the HD model as a base, so maybe it's not a completely silly idea, esp, if you can get hold of one damaged or badly made but with the footplate, tank sides, and cylinder covers ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 Good morning folks. To bring this thread up to date I have now gathered together several drawings, including the excellent MRC drawings from 1950. The upshot is does anyone want to buy a Hornby Dublo N2 shell? Conversion is a non-starter, scratch-building here I come Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Good morning folks. To bring this thread up to date I have now gathered together several drawings, including the excellent MRC drawings from 1950. The upshot is does anyone want to buy a Hornby Dublo N2 shell? Conversion is a non-starter, scratch-building here I come Tim T Good decision. I find scratch building the most satisfying (and at times frustrating) part of modelling. Those curved tank tops with rivets are a challenge. It's worth having a look at Archer's resin rivets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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