SR 4 Wheeled CCT

[brossard]

I decided to take a break from my coach build (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116068-ian-kirk-7mm-gresley-52-6-corridor-coaches/).  There's a danger, in a seemingly unending project like the coaches, of losing ones momentum and enthusiasm.  So, I decided to start my Slaters SR GUV.

 

First the kit itself:

 

P1010003 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

Main parts are well moulded plastic.  Lots of lost wax cast bits and an etched brass sheet.  Perversely, the screw link coupling wasn't supplied so I had to send off for one.  I also bought a sprung axleguard kit at the same time.

I've made pretty good progress: 

 

P1010002 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

First the sides had holes drilled.  These were half moulded on the back so easy to get right.  Similarly the ends had holes drill for handrails and lamp brackets.

I'm doing the GUV version of this van.  The first difference is reinforcing patches on the corners.  These are provided as accurate etched brass.  They are a fiddle to fit since crossbrace detail has to be ever so carefully removed to get them to fit.  Then, holes were drilled through etched holes in the patches.  Plastic rod was inserted and glued.  When hard these are cut off and sanded to reinstate rivets.

Vents are glued to the ends.

The floor was checked to make sure it is accurate (it is) and the subfloor bracing added.  This was finished with plastic strip to complete the brace U section.

Solebars were added as well.  The vacuum cylinder should be in the position shown.  PLVs had it in a different place.

Other things of note:

Very nice working screw coupling from Slaters.  A PITA to assemble but well worth it.

Sprung buffers assembled.  The housings are cast brass and take some fettling to get the buffers to move freely.

I opted for sprung axleguards.  These are assembled and one pair has been installed.  I found the bearing travel to be greater then the length of spring so a real danger of losing these fiddly things.  I put a tiny drop of cyano at each of the spring to secure them.

Wheels have been painted with a grungy brown colour of my making.

I tend to blacken all the metal parts as a first step.  This gives them a nice patina and also a good key for paint.  Another reason for doing this is to avoid having to paint moving parts.

John

Edited May 28, 2017 by brossard

[2ManySpams]

Good morning John, don't know if it's of interest but my build of one of these, together with various modifications to the kit and undergubbins starts on page 124 of my thread and can be found interspersed through the next 6 pages.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69736-pencarrow-pg189-back-to-scenics-and-buildings-for-a-bit/?p=2145580

[brossard]

Interesting that you made a false floor.  The extra thickness can cause follow on issues as you found.  I haven't checked my body fit yet.

 

I like your vac cylinder detailing, must do that.

 

I did not know about the Conoisseur sprung units, the look neat.  However, I'm doing the Slaters on this.

 

I do fancy a pair of Maunsell coaches so your thread will continue to be of use.

 

John

Edited May 27, 2017 by brossard

[brossard]

After reading Chris' thread I came to the realization that the kit doesn't come with window bars.  Drat!

 

However, undaunted, I gave the matter a few minutes thought and set to work making some:

 

P1010001-001 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

I drew out the pattern then scrabbled about in my brass scrap box until I found some strip of about the right size.

I laid out the horizontals over the pattern and taped those down.  I then soldered the verticals.  They all seem to fit.  Yes, it took a while and I had to adjust a couple.

Also added the vents and chalk plates to the sides.

John

Edited May 27, 2017 by brossard

[Guius]

What's the reference book you're consulting John?

 

Best,

 

Guy

[brossard]

Hi Guy, that's Peter Tatlows' Historic Carriage Drawings, NPCS:

 

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/products/isbn/9781899816095?cm_sp=rec-_-plp-_-plp&reftag=pd_p_1

 

Extremely good, contains helpful drawings and photos.  Includes vehicles from grouping and pre grouping.  Well worth having IMO.

 

John

[IWCR]

A  note  on  the  window  bars.  (All  the  PMVs  and similar  I  have  worked  on  had  this  feature).

The  insides  and  window  bars  were  originally  painted  light  green,  presumably  from  their  Southern  days.

Later  external  liveries  went  into  Red,  BR  Green,  Blue,  (well  mostly  brake  dust  &  dirt  colour)

The  interiors  also  changed  colours  however  the  side  of  the  window  bars  visible  through  the  window  remained  light  green  (with  added  dribbles  of  later  colour)  as  it  was  not  possible  to  paint  them  without  taking the  glass  out.

 

Pete

[brossard]

That's a good piece of info Pete.  Do you know the colour of the interior when painted crimson?  I don't plan to do a lot interiorwise but the correct colour would be nice.  My period is 1962ish but I am told a number of these spent their working lives with BR in crimson.

 

Another question since you point that the glass had to be removed to get at the bars - were the bars then on the outside?  I had assumed they were inside.

 

John

Edited May 27, 2017 by brossard

[cctransuk]

I decided to take a break from my coach build (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116068-ian-kirk-7mm-gresley-52-6-corridor-coaches/).  There's a danger, in a seemingly unending project like the coaches, of losing ones momentum and enthusiasm.  So, I decided to start my Slaters SR GUV.

 

First the kit itself:

 

P1010003 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

Main parts are well moulded plastic.  Lots of lost wax cast bits and an etched brass sheet.  Perversely, the screw link coupling wasn't supplied so I had to send off for one.  I also bought a sprung axleguard kit at the same time.

 

I've made pretty good progress: 

 

P1010002 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

First the sides had holes drilled.  These were half moulded on the back so easy to get right.  Similarly the ends had holes drill for handrails and lamp brackets.

 

I'm doing the GUV version of this van.  The first difference is reinforcing patches on the corners.  These are provided as accurate etched brass.  They are a fiddle to fit since crossbrace detail has to be ever so carefully removed to get them to fit.  Then, holes were drilled through etched holes in the patches.  Plastic rod was inserted and glued.  When hard these are cut off and sanded to reinstate rivets.

 

Vents are glued to the ends.

 

The floor was checked to make sure it is accurate (it is) and the subfloor bracing added.  This was finished with plastic strip to complete the brace U section.

 

Solebars were added as well.  The vacuum cylinder should be in the position shown.  PLVs had it in a different place.

 

Other things of note:

 

Very nice working screw coupling from Slaters.  A PITA to assemble but well worth it.

 

Sprung buffers assembled.  The housings are cast brass and take some fettling to get the buffers to move freely.

 

I opted for sprung axleguards.  These are assembled and one pair has been installed.  I found the bearing travel to be greater then the length of spring so a real danger of losing these fiddly things.  I put a tiny drop of cyano at each of the spring to secure them.

 

Wheels have been painted with a grungy brown colour of my making.

 

I tend to blacken all the metal parts as a first step.  This gives them a nice patina and also a good key for paint.  Another reason for doing this is to avoid having to paint moving parts.

 

John

 

Just a small point - perhaps a little pedantic? - but SR four-wheeled vans are usually designated as CCTs or PMVs; unless they are VAN Bs - in which case they have a guards' compartment.

 

I know - it's just me being picky!

 

Sorry,

John Isherwood.

[brossard]

OK John.  I'm no expert on SR (having done LMS when modelling in 4mm) so glad to be given guidance.  The Slaters notes talk about two versions of the van - PLV and GUV, is this pre-nationalisation terminology?  I know pictures of the van I'm building in the 50s are marked CCT (eg post #4).  Anyway I shall build and mark the van from pictures.

 

What does PMV mean anyway?  Passenger M----- Van.

 

John

[cctransuk]

OK John.  I'm no expert on SR (having done LMS when modelling in 4mm) so glad to be given guidance.  The Slaters notes talk about two versions of the van - PLV and GUV, is this pre-nationalisation terminology?  I know pictures of the van I'm building in the 50s are marked CCT (eg post #4).  Anyway I shall build and mark the van from pictures.

 

What does PMV mean anyway?  Passenger M----- Van.

 

John

 

My understanding is that PMV is the BR(S) designation, and that it stands for Parcels (&) Miscellaneous Van.

 

CCTs (Covered Carriage Trucks) had end doors, PMVs didn't.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Oldddudders]

Just a small point - perhaps a little pedantic? - but SR four-wheeled vans are usually designated as CCTs or PMVs; unless they are VAN Bs - in which case they have a guards' compartment.

 

I know - it's just me being picky!

 

Sorry,

John Isherwood.

Vans C, not B, which had bogies.

[cctransuk]

Vans C, not B, which had bogies.

 

Quite so - sorry.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[bécasse]

A  note  on  the  window  bars.  (All  the  PMVs  and similar  I  have  worked  on  had  this  feature).

The  insides  and  window  bars  were  originally  painted  light  green,  presumably  from  their  Southern  days.

Later  external  liveries  went  into  Red,  BR  Green,  Blue,  (well  mostly  brake  dust  &  dirt  colour)

The  interiors  also  changed  colours  however  the  side  of  the  window  bars  visible  through  the  window  remained  light  green  (with  added  dribbles  of  later  colour)  as  it  was  not  possible  to  paint  them  without  taking the  glass  out.

 

Pete

 

 

These vans really attracted brake-block dust and the design made it almost impossible for staff "on the road" to clean them thoroughly, I remember that by the end of the 1960s in most cases the only way to tell whether a particular van was blue or still green was to look at the painted number (which had, for obvious reasons, been cleaned) and see which type face it was in.

 

The pale green colour was used by the SR, and later BR(S), for the interior of all non-passenger space on passenger-rated vehicles. It was not chosen at random but rather after extensive discussion with the trade unions as to which was the most "restful" and non-distracting colour, a matter considered as paramount when it came to the driving cabs of electric stock.

 

The point with the window bars is that, although they were inside, they were so close to the glass that it was totally impractical to paint them without taking the glass out.

 

The vehicles were known to the staff as U-vans (even in BR days) or Cavell's, the latter reflecting the fact that the prototype vehicle (which was built by the SE&CR) had been used for the repatriation of the remains of Edith Cavell (and Captain Fryatt and the Unknown Warrior) after the Great War ended.

[brossard]

My understanding is that PMV is the BR(S) designation, and that it stands for Parcels (&) Miscellaneous Van.

 

CCTs (Covered Carriage Trucks) had end doors, PMVs didn't.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

I have done the CCT end doors, see post #1.  I've seen a couple of threads that include discussion of this Slaters kit but haven't seen anything on the CCT, so I'm not altogether treading old ground.

 

Thanks becasse for that clarification and the information.

 

John

Edited May 28, 2017 by brossard

[brossard]

Soldiering away today on the underframe:

 

 

Trying to be clever I added vacuum and steam pipes although I expect I got the crossover location wrong.  I have no info on that, so an educated guess.

The yokes were a fiddle since the outer ones are a tad tight and I had to file a notch in the back of one to keep the brakes clear of the wheels.  There isn't enough clearance on the front face of the yokes so I nibbled some material away to clear the wheel flanges.

Everything is more or less straightforward.

 

The chassis does run smoothly despite my efforts.

Still have the manual brake levers to fit and trussing.

 

Here's a question, I scrutinized the photos and drawings that I have and I can't see any safety loops around the yokes.  Every other vehicle that I have built, with clasp brakes,  has these, so can someone steer me right on this?

 

John

Edited May 29, 2018 by brossard

[2ManySpams]

Yes, I'm sure they do have safety loops. I've taken loads of photos of the real thing and will see if I can find them for you later today.

[2ManySpams]

Memory playing tricks again. It's my southern pillbox brake van photos that have loops on the yokes. The PMV has chains, two per yoke which line up with the holes in the brass etch.

[2ManySpams]

This van is at the Midland Railway Center (the body has been obviously modified):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[2ManySpams]

Second van at the Midland Railway Center, in somewhat worse condition:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope these help.

[muddys-blues]

Hello John, I am watching this thread and other related threads with interest as I have 2 x of these kits to build, here is a picture I took of the van at Betws y Coed, it is part of the museum's collection of vehicles.

 

Best regards

Craig.

 

[bécasse]

Hello John, I am watching this thread and other related threads with interest as I have 2 x of these kits to build, here is a picture I took of the van at Betws y Coed, it is part of the museum's collection of vehicles.

 

Best regards

Craig.

 

photo (1).JPG

 

But that isn't a U-van, it's a van C, rather longer and with guard's accommodation. They didn't appear until 1936 as the SR inherited a goodly collection of passenger brake vans.

[muddys-blues]

But that isn't a U-van, it's a van C, rather longer and with guard's accommodation. They didn't appear until 1936 as the SR inherited a goodly collection of passenger brake vans.

 

Oooops ... sorry so it is ... is this the type that was later coded as BY ?

 

Craig.

[brossard]

Wow Chris  thanks for the marvellous pics, I'm sure I can get the underframe more credible.  Looks like I made a hash of the vac and steam pipes so I think I can redo those without too much disruption.  Interesting that the yokes had safety chains, that seems an interesting detail to add.

 

The safety loops seem to be around the outer pull asembly and not wrapped around the yokes as I've seen before.

 

Super!

 

John

[brossard]

Hello John, I am watching this thread and other related threads with interest as I have 2 x of these kits to build, here is a picture I took of the van at Betws y Coed, it is part of the museum's collection of vehicles.

 

Best regards

Craig.

 

photo (1).JPG

 

Glad that you're watching Craig, hope you're enjoying.  I would add that I hope people who model in other scales are watching  too.  In my 4mm days, I would be over the moon to have the details shown above.  I liked to titivate underframes then so this thread should be a great boon to everyone I think.

 

John

Edited May 29, 2017 by brossard