Sharpest Main Line Curve

[eastwestdivide]

There's a couple of similar threads over on railforums.co.uk, neither of which came up with any definitive answers in terms of actual measurements.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39123

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=103979

[keefer]

Burntisland on the ECML in Scotland is pretty tight for a main line - it's checkrailed and while not sure of today's limit, used to be about 40mph.

I think the lines through Dundee Tay Bridge station are pretty tight too - checkrailed, and heading north there's also the damp and gradient of Camperdown tunnel to deal with.

At the south end of Dundee, there were quite tight scissors/crossovers leading to/from the bay platforms, also on a gradient:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/4652369204

Edited July 27, 2017 by keefer

[The Johnster]

Morpeth isn't particularly sharp, it's restricted to 50mph; as said earlier it's notoriety comes from the number of accidents that have taken place there.  I would be looking at curves with a 5mph maximum speed restriction to even be considering their inclusion in a list for the actual sharpest, and as I say much depends on your definition of 'main line'.  Almost anything slightly curved will make a Pacer squeal!

[GordonC]

Morpeth isn't particularly sharp, it's restricted to 50mph; as said earlier it's notoriety comes from the number of accidents that have taken place there.  I would be looking at curves with a 5mph maximum speed restriction to even be considering their inclusion in a list for the actual sharpest, and as I say much depends on your definition of 'main line'.  Almost anything slightly curved will make a Pacer squeal!

 

there cant be many 5mph curves in use anywhere for passenger trains nevermind main lines can there?

[smiths park]

If main line means Network Rail the curve between Sunderland and Park Lane stations must go some to take some beating - 180m (8.9 chains) radius.

[john new]

The one's in/out of Weymouth are fairly sharp (25mph IIRC). On the SWML Dorchester South, Poole and Bournemouth are also pretty sharp but not in the sharpest anywhere category as all beaten by Northam.

Edited July 27, 2017 by john new

[nick_bastable]

The curve between Archcliffe Junction and Hawkesbury Street Junction at Dover must be a contender, as must the junction on the other side of Dover (Buckland Junction).

just found a 2008 speed  chart and its 10mph round the curve for HS1 !

 

http://files.limitofshunt.org.uk/sectional-appendices/nr/ksw/module-2-2006.pdf

 

Nick

[The Johnster]

there cant be many 5mph curves in use anywhere for passenger trains nevermind main lines can there?

 

Barry Island branch out of Barry station, both directions.  Whether you regard this as a main line depends on how you want to define main line, but it is a running line used by passenger trains in regular normal service.  Normal stock is 142/3 and 152, but AFAiK any passenger stock or loco is permitted.  No doubt there are others, but I happen to know this one and will be travelling over it on the weekend.

[manna]

G'day Gents

 

There's a very sharp curve after Pannel station on the Leeds- Harrogate line, where it leads onto the Crimpel (?)  viaduct. that's something like 10 mph.

 

manna

[Mark Saunders]

G'day Gents

 

There's a very sharp curve after Pannel station on the Leeds- Harrogate line, where it leads onto the Crimpel (?)  viaduct. that's something like 10 mph.

 

manna

 

Crimple curve is 20 mph in both directions.

[manna]

Crimple curve is 20 mph in both directions.

Thanks for that, I used to work over that line in the late 80's and early 90's, I knew it was fairly sharp.

 

manna

[runs as required]

So where has this question ended up? No-one has yet quoted radii in chains.

 

The Morpeth alignment (on the right below) @ approx 300M radius (15 chains) appears to be twice the radius of the former Retford GN to GC curve.

[from the National Library of Scotland 'side by side' maps]

In the early 1960s "The West Riding", Deltic hauled, was the quickest way of reaching Sheffield in the morning from Kings+.

Having made sure to finish an excellent breakfast in time for Retford, passengers returned to the Sheffield portion before being detached to screech agonisingly around the 8 chain (?) reverse curve behind a Brush 31 before proceeding on to Sheffield (Victoria).

 

I always imagined this tortuous Retford chicanery was one reason why St Pancras survived its demolition threat during the Beeching years when the Midland mainline to Manchester was being abandoned.

dh

[John_Miles]

I always imagined this tortuous Retford chicanery was one reason why St Pancras survived its demolition threat during the Beeching years when the Midland mainline to Manchester was being abandoned.

dh

The Midland had more stops on its way to Sheffield, like Leicester, Nottingham or Derby so picked up a lot of intermediate traffic and served more places. Like its Scottish expresses which served a lot of intermediate points, for example we used to use the Waverley to travel from Chesterfield to Skipton and then down the branch to Colne to see the grandparents.

[The Johnster]

Morpeth, while notorious, is not particularly sharp, though it is in a particularly vulnerable position.

[DY444]

I remember reading a claim that Southampton is the lowest speed limit on a main line route in the country (15mph? I'm sure I read that somewhere, but no doubt one of our resident drivers will know what it actually is).

 

Northam used to be 15mph until the 80s but it's 25mph now.

 

As to being the lowest on a "main line", that rather depends what your criteria are - lowest absolute speed limit, biggest decrease from line speed on approach etc, and indeed your definition of a main line.  For example Derby has a 15mph limit with an 80mph limit on the UM immediately to the north.  The old layout at Reading had a reduction from 125mph to 50mph in both directions.  Northam has a 75mph limit on the DF approaching the 25mph curve.   Birmingham New St has a 10mph limit.  There are no doubt many other examples which could qualify.

Edited July 31, 2017 by DY444

[D854_Tiger]

Northam used to be 15mph until the 80s but it's 25mph now.

 

As to being the lowest on a "main line", that rather depends what your criteria are - lowest absolute speed limit, biggest decrease from line speed on approach etc, and indeed your definition of a main line.  For example Derby has a 15mph limit with an 80mph limit on the UM immediately to the north.  The old layout at Reading had a reduction from 125mph to 50mph in both directions.  Northam has a 75mph limit on the DF approaching the 25mph curve.   Birmingham New St has a 10mph limit.  There are no doubt many other examples which could qualify.

 

 

You can hardly miss those kind of places though, the more notorious curves where those, in out of the way kind of places, that were on what were otherwise lengthy stretches of high speed main line.

[DY444]

Northam used to be 15mph until the 80s but it's 25mph now.

 

As to being the lowest on a "main line", that rather depends what your criteria are - lowest absolute speed limit, biggest decrease from line speed on approach etc, and indeed your definition of a main line.  For example Derby has a 15mph limit with an 80mph limit on the UM immediately to the north.  The old layout at Reading had a reduction from 125mph to 50mph in both directions.  Northam has a 75mph limit on the DF approaching the 25mph curve.   Birmingham New St has a 10mph limit.  There are no doubt many other examples which could qualify.

 

You can hardly miss those kind of places though, the more notorious curves where those, in out of the way kind of places, that were on what were otherwise lengthy stretches of high speed main line.

 

True.  And after I posted it I realised they were not curves!  The approach to Northam curve on the down is pretty distinctive though.

Edited July 31, 2017 by DY444

[LBRJ]

More than likely for route retention.

 

Also to make for an easier connection with the ECML 

[Zomboid]

What you call a main line is pretty non specific.

Northam certainly counts as the level and significance of the traffic speaks for itself. The curve on the Skegness line though is less clear cut, for example. It's certainly not a trunk route...

Record has 2 trains each way per day, so I'd personally say that it's not a main line. But I'm not the authority on such things, that's just my opinion.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Zomboid

[Southernman46]

 Let's face it - it IS Northam curve - it's a trunk route, not a branch or a spur between other line, or a shallower curve people have heard of because trains have crashed on it over the years or some fiddley terminal approach.................... etc etc etc 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Southernman46

[runs as required]

Here at the same scale are the main line curves most frequently mentioned so far in this thread

 

 

It looks pretty much as Southernman46 says - so not only is it "unlucky not to stop at Salisbury" on the SouWestern.

There must be quite a few 10 chain curves in the British Isles - e,g. the connection at Dover between the Chatham and the South Eastern in front of the former Dover Marine is also "10 Chain Curve".

 

dh

[LBRJ]

those maps say Retford is the tightest!!

[GordonC]

Whats the curve like at Bamfurlong Junction from the St Helens line to southbound WCML?

[great central]

What you call a main line is pretty non specific.

Northam certainly counts as the level and significance of the traffic speaks for itself. The curve on the Skegness line though is less clear cut, for example. It's certainly not a trunk route...

Record has 2 trains each way per day, so I'd personally say that it's not a main line. But I'm not the authority on such things, that's just my opinion.

Skegness line has roughly one train in each direction each hour through the day, summer Saturdays also see an additional HST. I believe there are actually two running this year but as I don't sign them, I'm not certain. I know there have been differing options almost until the first one ran.

The curve is approached along a very long straight section almost all the way from Boston which was, of course, originally the route from Grimsby to Peterborough, now totally obliterated beyond the curve.

[The Black Hat]

Whitby is rather tight, on the approach through Larpool. So much so that 4-wheeled tenders are banned through it and it has a guard rail as well I think. Grosmont again is tight on the branch.

 

Another one in the North is the curve off Darlington at what used to be Parkgate Junction, where the line goes off towards North Road and onto the Bishop Auckland branch. This is still rather tight compared with most of those mentioned above, especially when leaving Darlington and its taken at speed.

 

Lines through Hartlepool station are also rather tight.