Churchill8F Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Ok guys, I have been browsing through looking for a class 47 to supplement my collction, and it appears the Heljan, Bachmann and VItrains all make models of a 47. Seeing as I just want a good overall model in early BR Blue (with D number) I was just wondering who makes the best one in 4mm scale. Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 It is all a personal choice. I would suggest that it's best if you have a look at all these in a model shop together and then you make a decision of what you think looks right. Personally I think that the Bachy is right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Early blue with D number pretty much restricts you to Bachmann in the RTR stakes, at least as far as major surgery is concerned. A shortcut to your requirement is their 47148 which is available heavily discounted at some of the better known box-shifters; admittedly you'll need to renumber but that's better than having to carve headcodes about and worry about buffer beam fairings. Some might say that the critically acclaimed Vi-Trains model is best, its detractors would counter that the quantity of detail parts you have to add is over the top. Most pundits point out that the Heljan 47 is too fat by a couple of mm. However, in its early blue form it's possibly available un-numbered, and these did come with original nose arrangements. It all depends what level of detail accuracy and prototype fidelity you feel you need - in particular radiator grilles are fairly obvious if they are incorrect for a given loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Seeing as I just want a good overall model in early BR Blue (with D number) I was just wondering who makes the best one in 4mm scale. Jack, 'best' is a very loose and subjective word. If you wait for answers to come to you, you may not get the most objective advice, but if you trawl the Products forums under each manufacturer's heading, you'll find literally hundreds of posts making comparisons. It really is a subject that's been done to death. As Chard says though, unless you're prepared to put in some modelling input, for a pre-TOPS blue loco you may be restricted to Heljan anyway (or even an old Lima) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Can? Open... Worms? Everywhere... As a starter, here is a link to some photos and discussion surrounding the ViTrains effort when it hit the shelves: ClicketyLink For Heljan your timing is impeccable as they have just released their unnumbered BR Blue version again EDIT: Here are some photos to show what you can get with an unnumbered HJ47. Admittedly there are some small issues (the silver kickplates below the cab doors shouldn't be there) but with little effort (all I can muster...) they come up well. Looking at that picture I can't believe I have fallen on my own sword so spectactularly. My pet hate is HJ 47s with the boiler tanks/battery boxes on the wrong way round and here I am doing exactly the same. Oh the shame... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Hiya Purely personal opinion but I would put them in this order. Looks like a 47 - vitrains, Bachmann, Lima, Heljan Stays on (p4) track - vitrains, Heljan ( these 2 the same), Lima, Bachmann Qualiity of motor (as supplied) - Bachmann, vitrains, Lima, Heljan As others have said you will need to decide what you think important and decide for yourself Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 All good advice on the points already raised by everyone. I have a couple of shots in the gallery section, but heres a couple of comparison shots - - This is a Vitrains respray - This is a Lima respray. I also have a Heljan 47 and Santa has just bought me a Bachy Large logo 47, so I will be able to compare the whole lot. I pretty much echo what Jim Smith-Wright says, and would personally plump for the Vitrains 47, but you have to be prepared to add all the detailing bits - worth the effort though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 This is classic case of a missed opportunity by the printed mags. Would it not make sense for one of them to to a comparison test of all the 47s available and give them a ranking? They could do the same with the 37. steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 This is classic case of a missed opportunity by the printed mags. Would it not make sense for one of them to to a comparison test of all the 47s available and give them a ranking? They could do the same with the 37. Yeah, we'd still have to have a thread about it every other month though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Hiya Purely personal opinion but I would put them in this order. Looks like a 47 - vitrains, Bachmann, Lima, Heljan Stays on (p4) track - vitrains, Heljan ( these 2 the same), Lima, Bachmann Qualiity of motor (as supplied) - Bachmann, vitrains, Lima, Heljan As others have said you will need to decide what you think important and decide for yourself Cheers Jim I'm surprised you've said the quality of motor for the Heljan 47 is the worst. Yes they normally put too much grease around the wheelsets and the pick-ups need tweaking but I would have said that the motor itself was the smoothest of all of them. All down to personal experience I guess. This is certainly not meant as a slur on your judgement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Simply this. Every motor on every Heljan 47 on Calcutta sidings had to be replaced with mashima's. They just draw too much juice meaning to try to shuffle 2 hj47's forward would trip the controllers every time. Yes the drive may be smooth but the motors themselves are utter rubbish. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 I see your point. They certainly draw alot of juice (we have the same problem on Duffield with controllers tripping, I'm assuming Calcutta Sidings was also DC). With Kirkhill being DCC using a Prodigy2 we've never had a problem and we were hoping new DC controllers on Duffield would solve our problems there. We may have to think again. Useful to know we're not the only people to have had problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECML180 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Would it not make sense for one of them to to a comparison test of all the 47s available and give them a ranking? They could do the same with the 37. steve It's been done and is called Britains Model Trains 2011! It may be hard to find but it lists the features of all rtr items and rates them. (No connection-just a satisfied customer) This link on the Hattons website gives a bit of detail. Edit-Missed off my opinion! IMO the Bachmann model is the best model but for it's value the ViTrains is better if you are willing to fit the detail parts. I have neither but have researched both because a 47 is a purchase soon I hope, my conclusion is also based on seeing both running at exhibitions and talking to the exhibitors! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Another point against the Heljan, especially if you may be looking to purchase second hand, is the well documented issues surrounding the chassis distorting and blowing out bodyshells. I have a couple of Bachmann 47's and they are good, smooth, reliable runners which look accurate enough for me at normal operating distances. Have thrashed them for long weekends with heavy rakes on show layouts as well as pottering around light engine at home and they have never missed a beat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well for me the Lima is old school so past it IMO. Very good in its day but no more. The Heljan to me doesn't capture the look, its not so much the width as the very square looking windows. I love Duffs but this aint one IMO. I have repainted and weathered/detailed so many Baccy 47's it's not funny and I find them very good at capturing the feel of the prototype well, however I have just purchased my first Vitrains loco and....yes the lights shine through the body like a campers tent with a lamp inside and yes the body has no fittings fitted at all from the box, even the footsteps need adding, also not impressed at all with paint finish either, but you know what? I think that the overall shape and look is better than the baccy, the bogie mouldings are crisper and the fact that it has nothing added means that I can respray and detail the loco how I want with absolutely no problems due to fixtures (don't need to remove anything either). I love it, and light proofing the fronts is easy peasey lemon squeezy. The question is do you want a straight from the box loco or are you planning work on it. Option 1 is Baccy and Option 2 Vitrains. Cheers Cav Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted January 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2011 Am I the only person who likes adding the detail to the Vitrains Duffs? The Vitrains one shades it for me to be honest, though I do like the Bachmann ones from the recent batches. The orignal Bachmann run (BR blue and BR greens) had too much detail from the 57's and were a bit of a mess. The mid life production run overcame that issue and they look a lot better. I have four Bachman's and four Vitrains Duffs currently. I buy whichever one has the livery I want to be honest. The Vitrains one is great for repainting/detailing as they cover most boiler port/detail variations, although I dont think they have done one with a headcode display yet. I love the way my Heljan Duffs run (once on DCC with a lenz chip in you'll run nothing smoother. Yes the current draw is on the high side but to label them 'utter rubbish' esp compared to lima pancakes is harsh) but they just dont look right. The cab windows look far too big and the width is very noticeable from certain angles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 It's been done and is called Britains Model Trains 2011! I don't think it's quite the same - it doesn't really go into so much depth over prototypical accuracy as many of us would really like in a full comparative article. With regards the OP - it may be worth finding Tim's blog on his Hybrid Vi/Bachmann/Heljan loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 . I buy whichever one has the livery I want to be honest. And the OP did specifically set out his livery requirements. Having said that, I'm a bit disappointed he's not been back to comment or offer thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted January 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2011 And the OP did specifically set out his livery requirements. Having said that, I'm a bit disappointed he's not been back to comment or offer thanks Indeed he did. I was hoping my statement would point out that I think there so little to pick between the vitrains and Bachmann models now that Bachmann have addressed some of the issues with their 47's. I also pointed out the problems with the Bachmann release that was nearest the requirment the OP requested. All in all some butchering will be required in upgrading the orignal Bachmann release or back-dating a ViTrains or Bachmann current model. And yes, some thanks always goes a long way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill8F Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Having said that, I'm a bit disappointed he's not been back to comment or offer thanks I'm sorry, but I have had some issues to deal with offline, afraid they come first before forums. I had come back to reply before, but didn't have the time to do so. Looking at the models, I do like the Bachmann one, but I also liked the ViTrains offering. Anyway, I have ordered the ViTrains model, as I'm up for a bit (or a lot) of work. Detailing it up to 1970's condition will be a challenge, but I'm up for it Sorry to keep you all waiting like this. Jack PS - Thank you to all that replied. I forgot how much of a useful tool RMweb is to someone like myself, who is pretty much starting out with modelling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Simply this. Every motor on every Heljan 47 on Calcutta sidings had to be replaced with mashima's. They just draw too much juice meaning to try to shuffle 2 hj47's forward would trip the controllers every time. Yes the drive may be smooth but the motors themselves are utter rubbish...... Thanks for that alert, Jim. I want to use the Heljan drive bogies (without frames, obviously) in a Kitmaster-based Prototype Deltic, but had not chosen a motor or driveshafts. I will look for something sizeable, possibly a Canon or a double-ended Maxon. Hopefully these will not be so heavy on the current draw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Wouldn't Bachmann Class 37/55 boiges be a better starting point? The class 47 bogies' wheelbase will be too long and could cause problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Wouldn't Bachmann Class 37/55 bogies be a better starting point? The class 47 bogies' wheelbase will be too long and could cause problems. They would for a production Deltic. But I am building a Prototype Deltic, the bogie wheelbase of which was 7'2" x 7'2". The "47" bogie without its frames, at 7'3" x 7'3", is virtually perfect for the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 They would for a production Deltic. But I am building a Prototype Deltic, the bogie wheelbase of which was 7'2" x 7'2". The "47" bogie without its frames, at 7'3" x 7'3", is virtually perfect for the job. Fair enough then! However, the later thicker 37 frames from Bachmann would offer a decent appearance from which to work for the sake of a couple of mil'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I'm sorry, but I have had some issues to deal with offline, afraid they come first before forums. I had come back to reply before, but didn't have the time to do so. Noted. Not wanting to drag this out, but I do always check that someone has been active before I post a comment like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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