RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2011 Hi guys, I greeted the news that the old Great Western Collet coaches had appeared in the Railroad range with a bit of enthusiasm and am considering a bit of extra work to improve the standard and would welcome your thoughts and suggestions. Given they are not released for a few months, I have plenty of time to decide how far I am going to go. The main reason I am choosing these today, is that they will be released in the GWR shirtbutton livery and that suits my preferred era, plus at £14 they will be a bargain! Previously I have always avoided them, preferring to opt for the Bachmann coches, although that has meant a mix of GWR livery. I have two rakes of these, plus a rake of Airfix Cententery and other assorted coaches. Plus over the last few years I have built a Comet Sunshine and a couple of Slaters Toplights. My modelling skills are ok and I am not looking to acheive Pendon standards. (would be nice, but....) The Donor coaches: R4523 Composite Coach R4524 Brake Third R4525 Buffet coach - probably not going to do this coach. R4526 Royal Mail coach - always fancied the idea, but realistically I think there is too much work involved, so it will probably not be on the list. It looks as if the Composite coach is Dia E127 built in 1925 / 27 - 7 compartment coach fitted with 7ft plate bogies. Looking at the pictures in the GWR coaches bible, I have in mind the following work: 1. Paint the roof Grey. 2. Improve the Interiors: 2a: Paint the interior in suitable colours (advice needed about how to get the correct shades for the Moquette.) 2b: Add pitcures, mirrors etc. I was not going to add any luggage racks, on the basis that you would probably not see them(?) 2c: Fill the coaches with people. 2d: Install lighting. (LED using DCC Concepts flickr free system) 3: Replace the painted white line with proper glazing and micro-rod to be the hand-rail. 4. Replace the bogies(?) - If deemed necessary, what types are available. 5: Change the couplings to something more descrete. I have tried Sprat and Winkle in the past, but have decided against, so I will always be using tension lock of one sort or another. The other alternative would be to have a fixed coupling for the rake. 5: Improve / Replace the underframe. Clearly with a donor coach at £14, I have to be sensible about how far I go, before ditching the project and buying another rake of Bachmann coaches and/or more Slaters Toplight kits. I do not want to touch the bodies, otherwise there is no point in buying these coaches! - (The livery is correct), so that rules out adding separate hand grabs etc. Have I missed anything, any glaring ommisions in the list of jobs? Your thoughts would be welcome. Many thanks, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 They not a bas starting point for improvements, although the composite coach has the first/third dividion in the wrong place. Other people have done good work with these. This website gives some useful tips on improvements that can be made and how with a little extra work you can make other diagrams, http://homepage.ntlworld.com/allan.tidders/GWRModelTrains/info-pages/GWR-index.htm. You might also want to replace the glazing with the flush gklazing from SE finecast. I did some work on these on the old RM Web and on this one http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32553 and http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/191/entry-708-70-ft-update/, even managed to make some passable 70ft stock from them. Happy modelling Rovex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 If my memory isn't playing tricks on me, there was another fantastic thread on the old forum about modifying and improving the Hornby Colletts, I forget who's it was but I do remember that the ends were drastically improved with new corridor connectors etc. I picked up a couple in BR crimson & cream for £12 each last October which I'm planning to do up eventually. Despite being over thirty years old they're still good representations of Collett stock, I reckon they can still look the part even when mixed in with other GWR types. I can't decide what to do about the bogies / couplings yet though. Rovex - those 70' conversions are very impressive B) Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted January 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2011 Bear in mind that the earlier issues of these often turn up on Ebay and at s/h dealers for less than the new RR price. Many are in shirtbutton livery. Watch out for the very early ones which had BR Mk1 bogies, although I believe the GWR 7ft type are available as spares. I hope that's still true as I need a load! I've built up a big stock of these over the last 2 1/2 years, all s/h and some really cheap, so potential subjects for repaints into WW2 brown and possible conversions to other diagrams. I remember the thread on modifying them but don't have time to find it now (off to So'ton show shortly), although I'm sure it was on the old site. Was it Il dottore? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Bear in mind that the earlier issues of these often turn up on Ebay and at s/h dealers for less than the new RR price. Many are in shirtbutton livery. Watch out for the very early ones which had BR Mk1 bogies, although I believe the GWR 7ft type are available as spares. I hope that's still true as I need a load! I've built up a big stock of these over the last 2 1/2 years, all s/h and some really cheap, so potential subjects for repaints into WW2 brown and possible conversions to other diagrams. I remember the thread on modifying them but don't have time to find it now (off to So'ton show shortly), although I'm sure it was on the old site. Was it Il dottore? Pete I can't remember who's thread it was originally Pete, but I think he also did a revamp of a Lima / Hornby GWR diesel railcar in blood & custard livery in the same thread. The two BR (W) Colletts I picked up last year have a more satin finish than the GW Liveried ones I had c1978. Hopefully, apart from carving off the handrails on the bodysides and touching up the crimson around new wire ones, I won't need to spoil it too much. I'll be weathering mine quite a bit anyway which usually helps blend things together. I wouldn't mind having a couple in GW livery actually to go in an early 1950s rake, painting out the GW identity and adding 'W' prefixes, then giving them a good coat of filth. Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 30, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2011 Thanks very much for the suggestions. I was in two minds when I put the post on, about whether the advice would be that they would be too much work, but that does not seem to be the case. I had already looked on EBay and watched a couple of the bids. Friday night a set of three coaches went for £40 which I thought was too much given that Hattons will be selling new ones for £14. Therefore I will go and get myself a small rake of probably three or four coaches, two Brake thirds and two compo, or maybe run the rake with a Toplight third instead of the 2nd compo. For anyone else interested in this project: The link to the old forum is here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50289 Plus here, (Quite a way down the page): http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3395&start=50 and continuing over onto the next page. The project was done by Lapford34102 (Stu), who has upgraded loads of different items, all of which is very inspiring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 30, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2011 They not a bas starting point for improvements, although the composite coach has the first/third dividion in the wrong place. Other people have done good work with these. This website gives some useful tips on improvements that can be made and how with a little extra work you can make other diagrams, http://homepage.ntlw.../GWR-index.htm. You might also want to replace the glazing with the flush gklazing from SE finecast. I did some work on these on the old RM Web and on this one http://www.rmweb.co....php?f=9&t=32553 and http://www.rmweb.co....8-70-ft-update/, even managed to make some passable 70ft stock from them. Happy modelling Rovex Thanks very much for the details, although the first link you mention has now moved to: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/allan.tidders/GWRModelTrains/info-pages/GWR-index.htm Again a very useful site, complete with a list of all RTR GWR models and their Great Western Diagram numbers: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/allan.tidders/GWRModelTrains/info-pages/GWR-index.htm Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Thanks very much for the links Neal, I've just reaquainted myself with Lapford / Stu's work on the Colletts (and that lovely Railcar!) and know what I'm going to do now. Referring to Stu's 'comparison' shot in his thread, he mentions that the dividing line between the crimson and cream on the Hornby coach doesn't quite match up with that of the Bachmann one.... looking through various Ian Allan colour albums it's quite prototypical, with the horizontal dividing lines all over the shop! Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I've used a fair number of these, upgrading older ones etc. One major change you can do (especially since you are going to repaint the roof) is to replace the ventilators with something that looks better (Comet etc). Also, remove every second ventilator over the compartments on the compo - even the as-built photo of 6029 in Russell's Appendix Volume 1 only has one ventilator per compartment (on the left as viewed from the corridor side). You can also replace the roof handrails and tank fillers at the same time. If you get really ambitious, you can do something about the over-deep roof ribs and tanks, but I usually don't bother unless I have to move the ribs around because I'm making a different diagram. For something a bit different, the Comet sides for the all third are quite an easy overlay. The bogies (except, as mentioned, the riveted on ones on the very early versions) are quite good. I hack off the couplings and fit Keen close couplings (which appear to have been originally designed for these coaches). Replacing the battery boxes (and putting them in the right place on the D95 van third - both at the van end) and adding a dynamo go a long way to improving the look of the underframe without doing too much work. The battery boxes on the E127 compo appear to be on the compartment side in the photos in Russell. There are slight issues with the bodies but with the latest finish they are quite reasonable representative coaches. The comp has a third-class compartment where it should have a first. The van third supposedly has one too many windows on the compartment side of the guards compartment (I don't have a reference for the compartment side of a D95, but the diagram for a D94 has window/blank/door rather than window/door/window - D94 was the three compartment van third while D95 was the 4-compartment one). The H33 restaurant is a very good representation of the coach pre-rebuild (pre-1938ish). The TPO is closest to an LMS prototype. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/28388-adrians-coach-works has photos of a couple of cut-and-shut conversions into ex-articulated coaches, an ex-articulated van first made with Hammond sides, and (not mentioned in the captions) a van third with roof mods (to the right of the E153) Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 30, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2011 I've used a fair number of these, upgrading older ones etc. ............ ....... The H33 restaurant is a very good representation of the coach pre-rebuild (pre-1938ish). The TPO is closest to an LMS prototype. Adrian Wow- thanks Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2011 My quickie improvement to these coaches consisted of replacing and relocating the bogies (mine were old ones with BR Mk1 bogies), filling the gap between the sides and the separate end pieces, repainting and re-lining, adding flushglaze and separate handrails and roof details. Not perfect, but I reckoned it brought them up to the point where they'd look OK with other GWR coaches from Bachmann and Slaters. I later bought some better corridor connections which I've still to add. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted February 20, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2011 Update: In order to get myself ready for the project I have bought an interior kit: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hornby-MAINLINE-COLLETT-INTERIOR-DETAIL-2-COACHES-/150542656292?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item230d0aa324 and fitted it into a Bachmann coach. Great result, although very fiddly. Plus I have just bought from Bromsgrove Models the flickr free lighting LED kit. Just need the Railroad coaches now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2011 Update: In order to get myself ready for the project I have bought an interior kit: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hornby-MAINLINE-COLLETT-INTERIOR-DETAIL-2-COACHES-/150542656292?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item230d0aa324 and fitted it into a Bachmann coach. Great result, although very fiddly. Plus I have just bought from Bromsgrove Models the flickr free lighting LED kit. Just need the Railroad coaches now! Thats an interesting kit Neal.I didn't know they existed.Will you show the finished article when done please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted February 21, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thats an interesting kit Neal.I didn't know they existed.Will you show the finished article when done please. Yes of course Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Try this link http://scalerail.phpbbhosts.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=496&p=4022&hilit=Collett+Coaches%E2%80%A6#p4022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 8, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2011 Try this link http://tiny.cc/no3p3 Thanks Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 8, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2011 As an aside to this thread and as part of my impatience, I have started some work on a Bachmann coach. I will start up a coach blog and show progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted April 8, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2016 They not a bas starting point for improvements, although the composite coach has the first/third dividion in the wrong place. Other people have done good work with these. This website gives some useful tips on improvements that can be made and how with a little extra work you can make other diagrams, http://homepage.ntlworld.com/allan.tidders/GWRModelTrains/info-pages/GWR-index.htm. You might also want to replace the glazing with the flush gklazing from SE finecast. I did some work on these on the old RM Web and on this one http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32553 and http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/191/entry-708-70-ft-update/, even managed to make some passable 70ft stock from them. Happy modelling Rovex The first website does not work anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted April 8, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2016 The first website does not work anymore. Sorry can't find where its gone either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Sorry i can't help in afraid. I did track down the gentleman when his first website went down and I think he then posted on a blog. But if this isn't the link and its now over four years ago it may have gone for good. I did print off the pages at work many years ago and if I've kept them I can message them to you. However I did many of the coaches on my posts which I think are linked above or may be on the old rmweb site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Quick and dirty upgrade to a Railroad restaurant coach. http://srmg.org.uk/quick-improvements-to-a-Hornby-railroad-gwr-dining-car/ Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 .....This website gives some useful tips on improvements that can be made and how with a little extra work you can make other diagrams, http://homepage.ntlworld.com/allan.tidders/GWRModelTrains/info-pages/GWR-index.htm No longer accessible, unfortunately. Tried it just now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted June 6, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 6, 2017 No longer accessible, unfortunately. Tried it just now. I have just clicked on the link on my Samsung tablet and it works for me. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I have just clicked on the link on my Samsung tablet and it works for me. You may have a saved copy of the site. I'll try it again. There was nothing earlier this afternoon, except a message that it takes "too long to respond." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted June 6, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 6, 2017 You may have a saved copy of the site. I'll try it again. There was nothing earlier this afternoon, except a message that it takes "too long to respond." I booted up the PC and here is the link again https://srmg.org.uk/quick-improvements-to-a-Hornby-railroad-gwr-dining-car/ It was slower on the PC than on the tablet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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