2mm & N Track- someone set me straight

[Russ (mines a pint)]

I've seen stuff looking at websites and blogs and now have the 2mm scale association members pack and standards.

 

I want to ask a whether a few scenarios are possible?

 

I want to use the 2mm easi track for the plain track on all the visible sections, whatever else happens.

 

I've noticed somebody on a blog running in models on a circle of kato track, but not sure if it was after conversion or before - posted by 'Sithlord' who I also think posts on here?

 

I'm thinking that the plain track is therefore interchangeable between N and 2mm

 

but what is the min radius for 2mm flanged wheels? can you go down to setrack curve radius on plain track (I am asking this for unseen sections of layout obviously - there would be little point in going for better looking track if you have silly curvature?)

 

Cheers for any ideas.

[Russ (mines a pint)]

I've noticed somebody on a blog running in models on a circle of kato track, but not sure if it was after conversion or before - posted by 'Sithlord' who I also think posts on here?

right think I've got my own answer on that bit after re-reading another couple of times

 

- but still up for a defnitive answer on using plain easitrack on N gauge (new) flanges

- and min radius using 2mm flanges

 

kind of deciding whether to go for a continuous run or end to end situation?

[Revolution Mike]

You will have no problems running modern N wheels (ie those with small flanges) on plain easitrac - indeed many of us are already doing the same. I wouldn't necessarily expect 2mm wheels to run on Kato Uni track though if I understood one of your points correctly.

 

Pass on the min radius for 2mm wheels.

 

Cheers, Mike

[TomE]

Hi Russ.

 

As Mike says you can run the latest N gauge models on the 2mm scale plain easitrac without a problem. I have done this with both Farish & Dapol models and never had a problem. As this is essentially flexi track there is no reason you couldn't bend it to match 2nd radius setrack curves although you could just use setrack if it's out of sight. Have a look on this thread on old RM web as there are a couple of examples of mixing Peco & easitrac.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=45879

 

2mm modelers will probably be having palpitations at the thought of N gauge running on 2mm scale track, but I see this as one step closer to going 2mm scale entirely. My next layout after Ropley is finished, whatever that turns out to be, will almost certainly be 2mm.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Tom.

[Russ (mines a pint)]

ta for the thread a search was getting me nowhere and of course its on the old forum! doh

 

2mm modelers will probably be having palpitations at the thought of N gauge running on 2mm scale track, but I see this as one step closer to going 2mm scale entirely. My next layout after Ropley is finished, whatever that turns out to be, will almost certainly be 2mm.

 

indeed I'm not actively looking for shortcuts ... yet!

 

just wondering about hidden track, I think I am going for end to end anyway, with cassettes, cos thats what I do, but just been reading the 'Gullant' article in MR and wondering how 2mm stock would take to that order of curvature?

[TomE]

I guess it depends what kind of stock you are planning on running. Something like a 0-6-0 tank or a Class 24 would probably manage a relatively sharp radius but something with a longer wheelbase would possibly struggle with setrack geometry in 2mm.

 

Tom.

[James]

2mm modelers will probably be having palpitations at the thought of N gauge running on 2mm scale track

I'm not sure about that - I still have the various publications from the association from when I was a member. In the Handbook there was a section on building track using 2mmFS components so you could run N gauge stock on it.

 

Waton has shown just how good N can look - essentially the only difference between Waton and 2mmFS is the flangeway (and, obviously, wheels to suit).

[Kris]

Whilst you can run n gauge stock on plain easy track it is a lot harder to run 2mm stock on proprietary n gauge track. The extra width of the 2mm wheels tends to make them stick on plain n gauge track and on very gentle curves, once you start going down to tighter curves derailments become more frequent until they are inevitable as the binding becomes a greater issue. Set track curves and 2mm just did not work in my experiments.

 

If you use 2mm track and converted diesels you should be able to get away with rather sharp curves. Steam locos with longer rigid wheel bases need larger radius curves. At a guess I would say that you could get a diesel loco running round 15 inch curves (I've not tried this and don't have the track to had to do it, but have more on order so if you need a quick test I should be able to do a quick test in a couple of weeks time if you need more).

[Kris]

 

 

2mm modelers will probably be having palpitations at the thought of N gauge running on 2mm scale track, but I see this as one step closer to going 2mm scale entirely. My next layout after Ropley is finished, whatever that turns out to be, will almost certainly be 2mm.

 

 

 

Nope happens quite a lot. There are very few 2mm layouts that don't have some n gauge stock on it.

[TomE]

I should probably have qualified that statement with *some* 2mm modellers...........

 

I do wonder though, is it possible to build points using the easitrac components which would allow both off the shelf N and kit built 2mm scale models to run happily side by side? At what point do the tolenernces become too tight for N or too great for 2mm?

 

Tom.

[Kris]

 

 

I do wonder though, is it possible to build points using the easitrac components which would allow both off the shelf N and kit built 2mm scale models to run happily side by side? At what point do the tolenernces become too tight for N or too great for 2mm?

 

 

2mm stock tends to use the check rails on point work to make the points work well rather than the deep flanges that you get in n this would be your stumbling block.

 

 

 

 

[eldavo]

... I do wonder though, is it possible to build points using the easitrac components which would allow both off the shelf N and kit built 2mm scale models to run happily side by side? At what point do the tolenernces become too tight for N or too great for 2mm?

 

The critical dimension here is the back-to-back measurements of the wheelsets, they are different for N gauge and 2mm. If you create your pointwork so it is suitable for N gauge then 2mm wheelsets will not be correctly guided by the checkrails through the frog. The opposite is also true, if you set the checkrails for 2mm then N gauge wheelsets will bind on them. You have to make a choice.

 

For Waton I opted to use off the shelf N gauge stock and adjust the gauge and flangeways to get a finer appearance. The flangeways are not quite as narrow as 2mm standards dictate but they are pretty close. Plain track can be laid to 2mm standards without any problem as the extra gauge between the rails is easily accomodated by the wide wheel tread of N gauge wheels.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Karhedron]

I do wonder though, is it possible to build points using the easitrac components which would allow both off the shelf N and kit built 2mm scale models to run happily side by side? At what point do the tolenernces become too tight for N or too great for 2mm?

I don't know about both but I believe that someone has produced the parts to build Easitrack points in N gauge, tus allowing you to maintain the finer scale appearance without having to resort to Peco track at the points.

 

I think that the N gauge kits for Easitrack points are produced by Noel Leaver. There is a short article on building them in issue 3 of N'Spirations.

 

http://www.osbornsmodels.com/ninspirations-3-by-grahame-hedges-12045-p.asp

[Weekday Cross]

This is quite a complicated issue to explain

 

Modern N gauge flanges are not much deeper than 2mm finescale, but a bit wider. It is not the width of the flange that stops N gauge wheels going through 2mm pointwork, but the fact that the wheels are set to a narrower gauge. You can just about get away with using modern N gauge wheels on 2mm pointwork, but only if you alter the gauge of your wheelsets, or narrow the track.

 

2mm standards were set out in the 1960s and are nothing like as close to real scale as say P4. Whilst the gauge is correct, the wheels are wider than scale and the flanges are a bit on the large side too - more like the 2mm equivalent of EM. This means that the outside of the wheels are over-wide on a 2mm chassis. On steam locos this means that by the time you have added coupling rods and valve gear, the whole appearance below the footplate looks too wide, in my opinion. Using N gauge equipment converted to 2mm standards helps with this as the extra 1/16mm per foot scale means that the outside of 2mm FS wheels are set at more or less the correct width for the scale.

 

If you want your stock to be close-coupled like the real thing then you should allow for reasonably generous curves, whether the gauge is N or 2mm finescale.

[Revolution Mike]

I don't know about both but I believe that someone has produced the parts to build Easitrack points in N gauge, tus allowing you to maintain the finer scale appearance without having to resort to Peco track at the points.

 

I think that the N gauge kits for Easitrack points are produced by Noel Leaver. There is a short article on building them in issue 3 of N'Spirations.

 

Noel has built Easitrac points to N gauge (and commissioned the necessary gauges to do it). The parts are the normal Easitrac points but the chairs (which are glued on individually anyway) are just moved in to narrow the gauge slightly. It sounds much more complicated than it actually is.

[Karhedron]

The parts are the normal Easitrac points but the chairs (which are glued on individually anyway) are just moved in to narrow the gauge slightly. It sounds much more complicated than it actually is.

I will take your word for that.

 

I have decided to stick to code 55 for my current layout in the hope that I can actually get something finished for once.

[Donw]

It is possible to make points which will take both N gauge and 2mm they are called universal oints and the wing rails pivot as well as the blades so that as the point is thrown one wing rail closes against the frog whils the other opens wide. Thus both wheels can run through. These have been used with tinplate systems and to allow finescale and coarse scale wheels to run together.

The problems are these are not that easy to make and the appearance is not so good. However if you wanted say a scenic piece of track with pointwork offstage for storage roads it could work.

Alternatively build N gauge trackwork using easitrac and suffer the poor appearance of wide flangeways at frogs or go for 2mmfs track and wheels.

Don

[Dave777]

The biggest problem for me is building the points. I don't mind doing Easitrack straight track as I can thread some sleepers onto a rail, but once it comes anywhere near to soldering pointwork my interest level falls off a cliff. What's interesting about that original thread for me (apart from being totally ignored in the middle of it ) was this bit:

 

Currently the only soldering was to produce the frog/wing rails crossing vee but we are looking to get this cast so that no soldering is required to make fine-scale N gauge points.

Well if it's a solderless, simple-construction point then, frankly, I'm out of the Peco camp and you can sign me up immediately. So is that now the situation that we are in? The Easitrac website doesn't seem to indicate that this is the case

[Karhedron]

The biggest problem for me is building the points. I don't mind doing Easitrack straight track as I can thread some sleepers onto a rail, but once it comes anywhere near to soldering pointwork my interest level falls off a cliff. What's interesting about that original thread for me (apart from being totally ignored in the middle of it ) was this bit:

 

Currently the only soldering was to produce the frog/wing rails crossing vee but we are looking to get this cast so that no soldering is required to make fine-scale N gauge points.

Well if it's a solderless, simple-construction point then, frankly, I'm out of the Peco camp and you can sign me up immediately. So is that now the situation that we are in? The Easitrac website doesn't seem to indicate that this is the case

I know what you mean about soldering. I live with 2 small boys and no secure work area so lead-based solder, hot irons and acidic fluxes are not really an option. For the same reason I usually use acrylic rather than enamel paints.

 

The last info I heard was an article in N'spirations 3 which is only a month or so old. In it they still described soldering the frog so my guess is that cast frogs are either not happening or have not happened yet.

 

For the definitive answer I think it is best to try and contact Noel Leaver directly. I am not sure if he is on RMWeb but he is on the N gauge Yahoo group so I will try and contact him through that.

[TomE]

Well if it's a solderless, simple-construction point then, frankly, I'm out of the Peco camp and you can sign me up immediately. So is that now the situation that we are in? The Easitrac website doesn't seem to indicate that this is the case

 

Hi Dave.

 

The only soldering required is the frog & wing rail assembly, and there are jigs available to assist with that. The chairs are fixed to the sleepers using liquid cement. My soldering skills are equalled only by my singing ability and easitrac's use of plastic is the main reason I'm going down that route.

 

Have a read of this file, it explains the construction process pretty well: http://www.2mm.org.uk/easitrac/Easitrac_Turnout_Construction_Guide.pdf

 

Tom.

[Karhedron]

For the definitive answer I think it is best to try and contact Noel Leaver directly. I am not sure if he is on RMWeb but he is on the N gauge Yahoo group so I will try and contact him through that.

Noel very quickly and kindly got back to me on this issue. He is not planning to produce any pre-made frogs but he does mention that etched frogs are available from this supplier although a small amount of slodering is still required. I believe the code 40 frogs are the ones suitable for Easitrac but it could be worth double-checking.

 

http://www.proto87.com/n-scale-track.html

 

He also mentions that he tried some of his but did not like 2 things:

 

the bottom of the frog is too high in my view - borderline minimum for NMRA and likely to cause bumps if you take older UK wheels through (like the Parkside ones the NGS shop sells). And the gap at the end of the wing rails was less than NMRA spec.

[Dave777]

Yeah, I had a little snoop about on the Easitrac website earlier and browsed the (well illustrated) construction pdf.

 

The sleeper gluing looks fine, as does the flexitrack 'construction' (such as it is), perhaps I should purchase a point and see how I get on with the soldering.

 

Just feels like it's tantalisingly close to be a dead simple alternative to RTR track for me personally. It may be a generalisation, but most modellers can blob a bit of glue onto something I feel, whereas soldering does introduce an element of bodge-a-bility that could muck things up a bit.

 

 

 

[Karhedron]

Just feels like it's tantalisingly close to be a dead simple alternative to RTR track for me personally. It may be a generalisation, but most modellers can blob a bit of glue onto something I feel, whereas soldering does introduce an element of bodge-a-bility that could muck things up a bit.

It's not just you, I feel the same. Simmilarly filing rails myself to try and make a frog sounds like a recipe for rough running.

[grahame]

It's not just you, I feel the same. Simmilarly filing rails myself to try and make a frog sounds like a recipe for rough running.

 

There is a jig that you clamp the rails in to for filing the angles on the rail to form the vee. Personally I found it more difficult filing the taper for the blades.

 

Other than that I also have an adversion to soldering, but managed the very small amount required to make the crossing section. There is another jig that holds the rails in place (especially for N gauge) and you just solder three short pieces of wire (or shims of brass etch) across the bottom of the rails to form the crossing - and thats all the soldering for each point (except the tie bar bit).

 

The beauty of using Easitrac and Easitrac points made to N gauge is that it looks a heap lot better than Peco (with low profile code 40 rail, finer/narrower flangeways and overall more realistic) and you can run your N gauge stock (those fitted with the current modern finer profile standard wheelsets) without problems and without the cost and bother of changing all the wheels. Plus for the fiddleyard and in tunnels you can switch back and use peco track and points which reduces the amount of Easitrac points and track you have to make.

 

G.

[grahame]

Alternatively build N gauge trackwork using easitrac and suffer the poor appearance of wide flangeways at frogs or go for 2mmfs track and wheels.

 

If you build Easitrac points to the current NmRA N gauge standards the flangeways aren't partcularly wide. Sure, they're a tad wider than 2mmFS but they are a big (narrower) improvement over the commercial N gauge point flangeways (like Peco). And as well as the reduced flangeways they have the benefits of being finer code 40 rail, real rail check rails (not plastic) and more accurate (closer to scale) sleepers and spacing. Plus they don't have odd looking code 80 blades with code 55 track. It's certainly not sufferage. B)

 

G.