fender Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 just noticed that despite following this thread for a long time, I've never posted! fantastic trackwork, truly an inspiration. whenever I've found it hard going on my tiny layout I've thought of Eastwood Town and shamed myself into working harder. I always look forward to new updates on your progress and I wish you all the best with it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2014 For those admiring Gordon's superb 00-SF trackwork, things are stirring in the trade: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28398 Martin. (no connection) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 For those admiring Gordon's superb 00-SF trackwork, things are stirring in the trade: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28398 Martin. (no connection) Interesting.... Thanks for pointing this out. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted January 26, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2014 I just love the 'Well I knocked this together' things you do as has been said when I see an update on ET I really look forward to reading it. In a different way it is up there with Tetley Mills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D802 FORMIDABLE Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Your layout Gordon is well and truly going to be one the great layouts of all time to be remembered for decades to come and an inspiration to all old and new to this grand hobby of ours... As has been said before your work inspires a lot of us through that patch of losing the modeling mojo so thank you mate for keeping us all inspired and hanging out for your next post. Cheers Anthony PS Damn you for making it all look so easy lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 Your layout Gordon is well and truly going to be one the great layouts of all time to be remembered for decades to come... Especially by Gordon's timber merchant... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gordon s Posted February 12, 2014 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Will it ever stop raining? Glad to say we're a few miles from any significant rivers/streams so all is dry right now, although the water table is very high. My thoughts go to others in the Thames Valley who are suffering right now... The last few weeks have seen a family wedding and various other demands that have limited progress, but at long last I can start to see how ET might look, if it ever gets finished. The next board was assembled, glue and then fixed to the earlier ones to allow track building across the joins. ET was never going to be a portable layout and I can understand what just what is involved in taking standard board modules and trying to design a track layout that places all pointwork away from board joins. Even designing the boards to suit the track layout is a near impossibility with a turnout almost certainly going to foul a board join. I can now really appreciate the sheer brilliance of those who build complex exhibition layouts... Thankfully ET will never leave home, so that negates that design constraint, but I have thought to myself, what if we ever move? Mentally I'm prepared to cut through pointwork and face having to build some replacements. Having all the design files on Templot will make that task simpler, although I will have to face days of work repairing/rebuilding should that day ever come. I suspect the reality will be somewhat different as finding a new house with the same space available will also be an issue, so I'm half adopting the mantra 'don't worry, be happy'... The main lines are in place and the two turnouts on the left will dive into the shed area. Some tracklaying still to complete between the laid and ballasted pointwork, but it's starting to take shape. The revised layout on the goods loops to the right, show the new headshunt half in place. I shall be calling on the earthwork engineers soon to extend the raised trackbed to accommodate the second half of the headshunt, but otherwise it's coming on.. Some pretty routine stuff ahead. Track laying and ballasting plus some of the wiring. I need to give some more thought about backscenes and scenic breaks behind the goods loops. I suspect it will be low relief buildings as I have yet to find an urban backscene. There's loads of country stuff, but no really grotty stuff from the 60's. Now there's an opening for someone... Thanks for following my never ending waffle... Edited February 12, 2014 by gordon s 25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted February 12, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2014 I envy you the space but not the task. I'm struggling with a 7ft square area and far fewer calls on my time. Your layout is certainly going to be something to be proud of and we're all interested in watching it grow so please keep posting progress updates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Will it ever stop raining? Glad to say we're a few miles from any significant rivers/streams so all is dry right now, although the water table is very high. My thoughts go to others in the Thames Valley who are suffering right now... The last few weeks have seen a family wedding and various other demands that have limited progress, but at long last I can start to see how ET might look, if it ever gets finished. The next board was assembled, glue and then fixed to the earlier ones to allow track building across the joins. ET was never going to be a portable layout and I can understand what just what is involved in taking standard board modules and trying to design a track layout that places all pointwork away from board joins. Even designing the boards to suit the track layout is a near impossibility with a turnout almost certainly going to foul a board join. I can now really appreciate the sheer brilliance of those who build complex exhibition layouts... Thankfully ET will never leave home, so that negates that design constraint, but I have thought to myself, what if we ever move? Mentally I'm prepared to cut through pointwork and face having to build some replacements. Having all the design files on Templot will make that task simpler, although I will have to face days of work repairing/rebuilding should that day ever come. I suspect the reality will be somewhat different as finding a new house with the same space available will also be an issue, so I'm half adopting the mantra 'why worry, be happy'... The main lines are in place and the two turnouts on the left will dive into the shed area. Some tracklaying still to complete between the laid and ballasted pointwork, but it's starting to take shape. The revised layout on the goods loops to the right, show the new headshunt half in place. I shall be calling on the earthwork engineers soon to extend the raised trackbed to accommodate the second half of the headshunt, but otherwise it's coming on.. Some pretty routine stuff ahead. Track laying and ballasting plus some of the wiring. I need to give some more thought about backscenes and scenic breaks behind the goods loops. I suspect it will be low relief buildings as I have yet to find an urban backscene. There's loads of country stuff, but no really grotty stuff from the 60's. Now there's an opening for someone... Thanks for following my never ending waffle... DSC_1500.jpg DSC_1496.jpg DSC_1499.jpg Remind me please how big a space you've got is? I've a space just under 16' by almost 14' to play with - you seem to be getting a lot in... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks for the update, Gordon. When you've finished the beautiful trackwork the hard work really begins.....buildings. I'm sure that some guys on here would be happy to contribute some purpose built structures (at least Public Conveniences). Best, Pete. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Blimey Gordon, whatever happened to 'plain & simple'...? I mean I love your trackwork but the layout is getting pretty big again innit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Remind me please how big a space you've got is? I've a space just under 16' by almost 14' to play with - you seem to be getting a lot in... The complete space is 18' x 18' but the room is a loft conversion above what used to be an integral double garage. The lower level became my office during my last two years of working, as it was considerably more efficient to work from home than travel back and forth each day to Marlow. The rest of the 'downstairs' became our utility room and houses the staircase to the railway room. The real issue of using this space is that you have the slope of the roof to contend with and as the boards are just under a metre from the ground, the usable space is actually 18' x 14', hence the 2' inset each side in the plan posted earlier. Compared to my earlier efforts, Larry, this is plain and simple. Yes it takes the same space and allows main line running, but there are no gradients, no slips, no crossings and everything is accessible. All the previous attempts fell down on those scores and ended up in the bin. In simple terms there are four main line loops, up and down fast and slow and two goods loops which sit 82mm higher than the inners. The final bit is a reasonable size shed facility. All this will be easily operated by one person, with trains trundling round on their own loops whilst other things are being done. Once the boys arrive, then the beers will come out and four or more operators will be kept amused. I'm pleased with the progress to date and at last I can start to see the trackwork flow and how things will appear. I've had to compromise on the running length with just one circuit around the room for each line, but more than that meant gradients and complexity. The secret for me now is to disguise and break up the train set loops by introducing visual breaks, bridges, tunnels etc to hide the simplicity. These particular boards probably appear more complex that they are as there are quite a few crossovers in place. The other side of the room will house ET station and there the number of turnouts will be considerably less. One of the things I have begun to realise is that any layout is in reality a series of dioramas as the eye and the camera generally takes in a small part of the layout and then the brain and imagination fill in the gaps. Taken in small sections, the viewer and operator will not see a plain oval. I hope they will see a decent size through station with A4's thundering through and the local N2/DMU dealing with commuters. Operators in the shed will recall the times they bunked over the fence into that heavenly area where row after row of Gresley's finest could be cabbed and those looking at the outer loops will recall 9F's and long freights clattering along. Looking back over this thread, this incarnation was started in May last year, so it's taken around 9 months to get this far. On that basis I'm still 18-24 months away from seeing anything run a complete circuit, but I'm happy with that. Building in tortoise mode is much more rewarding than the hare I tried to be before... Edited February 12, 2014 by gordon s 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) One of the things I have begun to realise is that any layout is in reality a series of dioramas as the eye and the camera generally takes in a small part of the layout and then the brain and imagination fill in the gaps. Taken in small sections, the viewer and operator will not see a plain oval. I hope they will see a decent size through station with A4's thundering through and the local N2/DMU dealing with commuters. Operators in the shed will recall the times they bunked over the fence into that heavenly area where row after row of Gresley's finest could be cabbed and those looking at the outer loops will recall 9F's and long freights clattering along. This was something expounded by Peter Denny and he always tried to break his layouts into viewable chunks as I've tried to do on Wencombe. Edited February 12, 2014 by westerner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted February 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Hi Gordon, Good to see such progress. Still happy with 00-SF for ET? A lot of nonsense today from the usual source. I tried to ignore it, really I did, but in the end I have posted a reply: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28504&view=findpost&p=332676 edit: new link after moderator moved it. regards, Martin. Edited February 12, 2014 by martin_wynne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Happy with it? You must be joking, I wouldn't have anything else, so many thanks for pointing me in the right direction in the first place. With the mix of stock and wheel standards I have, I doubt if anything else would cope and run so well. I haven't had a chance to read the link you've sent, so will look at it later. Personally I couldn't care less what other parties say. It works for me and that's all that matters. If you haven't already, feel free to add a link to ET if you want others to see how it stacks up. Edited February 13, 2014 by gordon s 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Gordon Really nice set of photos of your latest work, cant believe how tidy your room railway is (darnt show the wife your work). One question please what do you use to stick the plans to the baseboard, Its just on a previous attempt I used a spray glue and it came away from the cork Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't stick the plan down at all, John. The sheets are laid onto the board and held in place with sticky tape. Once in position I use my Proxxon drill with a 1mm bit and drill a hole to mark the line of the outer rail every 50-75mm and then remove the plan. The cork strip underlay I use to make up the track bed is built up from 5 strips. Three of them are 22m wide and then I use two edging strips. The 66mm gives me my double track spacing to the outer rails and using the holes I've drilled as a guide, I can stick down the cork strip to make the track bed. From that I know the outer rails will sit on the join between the cork strip and the edge strip, so now I stick the track down without using the plan at all. With pointwork I position the turnout correctly using the plan and then drill a hole right through the tie bar and through the baseboard itself. This then serves as a datum for the toe of the turnout and I can align the heel with the plain track position. This all sounds far more complex than it really is, so apologies for my convoluted English. I should say that I'm quite meticulous in laying out the paper plan in the first place. I set up the Templot grid pattern set to give me grid squares on a 1' spacing and then continually measure and check from a known datum that the plan is in the right place before drilling the holes. It must be an age thing, but I continually use a mix of metric and imperial measurements. Millimetres are fine for small measurements, but I still drop into feet for large measurements. You're having a laugh about a tidy room. I'll wait until the light gets up today and show you a real shot looking in the other direction. I have to continually move stuff around to take a half decent pic, so don't be fooled by appearances... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gordon s Posted February 13, 2014 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2014 One very messy railway room. I did warn you... You can also see the limitations of the roof slope and how it reduces the available space by around 4' overall. 23 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks522 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Just how a railway room should look! Graham. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Hello, I had a look on that other site.I was struck by the bit The problem as I see it is that 00-SF is really a made up set of measurements which don't make logical sense. Historically has 00 guage ever made logical sence? As far as I am aware it has never been a true scale standard and was thought up as a compromise for fitting current drive mechanisms into models of lesser loading gauge dimensions than the europeans at the time using H0 gauge/3.5mm.It is only a compromise that could have been dreamt of in the days of Empire when Britain considered itself superior to the rest of the world and made up things to suit its own agenda. Hi Gordon, Good to see such progress. Still happy with 00-SF for ET? A lot of nonsense today from the usual source. I tried to ignore it, really I did, but in the end I have posted a reply: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28504&view=findpost&p=332676 edit: new link after moderator moved it. regards, Martin. As far as I am concerned being able to run what I already have trumps some individuals irrational crusade against pragmatism which counters odd historical decisions.I am following Gordon and Martin with my own layout which is in progress using Templot @ 00sf settings. trustytrev. Edited February 13, 2014 by trustytrev 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2014 Hi Gordon, we enjoy your ramblings so keep them coming. As to 00-SF, I too am building my turnouts to this standard that is if I can get hold of the gauges. I am awaiting C&L stocking them, unless anybody has a set they no longer need....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Gordon Thanks for the answer, I have now bought some spray glue designed for flooring and seems to cover most materials. Looks to be a lot stronger than the Bostic spray mount. I think I will give it a go on a test piece, but I guess if its good enough for carpets and tiles it will be OK for either cork or foam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Using millimeters for models and feet and yards for larger objects makes sense to some of us. One broadcaster went from miles to kilometres in one bout of hysteria and while 80mm of rain sounds good, it's also 3¼ inches. I hadn't realised until recent posts that you are working to 00 finescale. I presume this slight narrowing of the gauge removes the excessive slop prevalent in 00 and helps stop locos from waddling and hunting...? Edited February 13, 2014 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure what you mean by 00 finescale, Larry? All my plain track is 00 from SMP. The pointwork is soldered construction in 00-SF which narrows the gauge to 16.2mm for a short distance in the frog/wing rail/check rail area only. I then flare the rails back out to 16.5mm to mate with normal SMP track. The biggest difference appearance wise is the 1.0mm flangeways. I'm sure Martin will correct me, but 1.0mm flangeways are used in 'finescale' track, but then you run into problems with B2B's. Using 00-SF standards means I get the best of both worlds. Much improved appearance and all my current stock will run through smoothly without any modification. Hornby, Bachmann RTR etc plus DJH kits with Romford or Markit wheels and finally modified chassis with Ultrascale wheels. They all run through without any modification and the pointwork looks great. When done carefully you are very hard pushed to see the slightly narrower gauge at all. Edited February 13, 2014 by gordon s 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted February 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2014 I hadn't realised until recent posts that you are working to 00 finescale. I presume this slight narrowing of the gauge removes the excessive slop prevalent in 00 and helps stop locos from waddling and hunting...? Hi Larry, The primary intent of 00-SF is not the gauge reduction, but the reduction in the flangeway gap. Using 1.0mm flangeways instead of 1.3mm looks much better (although still overscale) but it also means that wheels are fully supported on the wing rails as they run through crossings (frogs). They can't drop into the gap because they are wider than the widest part of the gap. This isn't the case with some wheels on 1.3mm flangeways. Then to avoid the need to change the wheels back-to-back, the track gauge is reduced so that the check rail is still where it was before -- 15.2mm from the nose of the crossing. Standard 00 gauge 16.5mm includes a huge amount of slop (to allow models can run round very sharp train-set curves), so if like Gordon you are not using such curves reducing it to 16.2mm does no harm at all and can give steadier running, especially when propelling vehicles. Or you can just use the narrower gauge through pointwork, and continue to use 16.5mm flexi-track elsewhere exactly as before. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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