brossard Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I had a quick look round but didn't see anything on this. I'm assembling the subject gearbox and it's all gone together pretty well. The annoying thing is that the gearshafts aren't prevented from coming out. I tried soldering a 0.020" wire across the outside of the box - now it's too wide. What am I missing? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I fix mine with a dab of epoxy (Araldite) on the outside ends of the shafts. I cut the shafts so that they stand proud by about 0.5mm at each end and roughen the surface around the outside of the holes with emery before fixing. So far, this has worked fine. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Thanks Nick. I don't have any clearance at all. I was thinking sleeve lok Loctite? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Loctite might work -- I regularly use it on some High Level final gears -- but I went for epoxy because I was afraid there wouldn't be enough contact area with the thin sides of the gearbox for Loctite to work properly. I'd be happy to be proved wrong. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Drop of superglue on the outside of the etch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Right then, thanks all. I still have to reduce the shaft lengths to get 'em flush with the sides of the box - but that's for tomorrow I think. Amazing how exhausting a couple of hours of gearbox assembly can be. I'm leaning towards superglue but only on the side farthest away from the gears. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2011 Loctite might work -- I regularly use it on some High Level final gears -- but I went for epoxy because I was afraid there wouldn't be enough contact area with the thin sides of the gearbox for Loctite to work properly. I'd be happy to be proved wrong. Nick Quite so Nick, Loctite didnt work for me. I've built several Highlevel boxes and good-old Araldite is the way to go. You can use a blob of it to encase the ends of the shafts and stop them moving. And if they're too wide to fit between the frames you can still file them down a bit more. I've always chosen boxes with a grubscrew fixing for the final-drive gear, for two reasons; 1) To my mind Loctite and small gearboxes dont mix; and 2) I need to be able to disassemble the loco during building, and I do so several times usually! Cheers, Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Shafts cut slightly overlength and a blob of superglue (Zap-A-Gap). Works for me anyway... (6 gearboxes to date, soon to be 7). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 A dab of solder is the system I use, but you need to be fairly quick on the in and out with the iron. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I've always chosen boxes with a grubscrew fixing for the final-drive gear I thought it was just me. That's reassuring. I do wish he'd put grubscrews on a few more of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 ...I've always chosen boxes with a grubscrew fixing for the final-drive gear, for two reasons; 1) To my mind Loctite and small gearboxes dont mix; and 2) I need to be able to disassemble the loco during building, and I do so several times usually! Grubscrews can certainly make life easier, though I've not had any trouble using Loctite on the final-drive gear. If possible, I try to ensure that the motor/gearbox/axle assembly can be dropped out of the frames in one piece. This is helped by using one of his narrower gearboxes to fit between CSB springs or compensation beams in P4 frames. For cases where I can't do this, I also prefer to use grubscrews. Unfortunately, as Jonathan said, there are not many High Level boxes that use grubscrews. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 The one I've got has a grubscrew fixing for the final drive. I've always wondered how one gets the loctite in - there is no room to manouevre. I suppose you could dribble it down the grubsrew hole. I've read (from Mr Rice) that using a grubscrew to fix the worm on the motor shaft can result in eccentricity. I've always used loctite to secure the worm to shaft. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 My experience is that the final drive gear is a good fit on the driven axles, so any ecetricity is minimal and can be taken up by the gears. Try a dry run with the assembled gearbox before fitting to the chassis. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 Just to let you know, I fixed the gear shafts by applying superglue to the side farthest away from the gears and filed them to about 0.5mm proud (I have more clearance than I thought). Final drive fixed with grub screw and motor attached. I just spent the last half hour running it in without load. It is very sweet indeed. I like these gearboxes (80:1) - right first time. The Romford 60:1 is difficult to get the backlash on. I've only tried to do one Comet two stage and that didn't work out too well either. We'll be doing more of these High Level beauties. The loco, in case you're interested is the OO Works L&Y saddle tank. I converted it to a compensated chassis and EM. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 As Gordon says, the ones with grubscrews are usually a good enough fit to avoid eccentricity. Mr Rice's comments really only apply to less well-fitting gears. The gears that are intended to be fitted with Loctite are narrower as they do not have the boss on the side for the screw. I apply a tiny amount of Loctite on either side around where the axle and gear meet, then rotate the gear on the axle (or the axle inside the gear) two or three times. Capilliary action does the rest to draw the liquid into the joint. Make sure the gear ends up in line and leave it for a few hours. It will have started bonding within seconds so the job has to be done fairly quickly. Nick ps. for some reason I left this lying around without hitting the post button and John came back with news of his success before me. Glad to hear it's all working, John. These High Level boxes are just so much easier to get right than some other types. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 Actually Nick my comment about eccentricity was directed at the worm fixing more than the final drive. In this case the worm is fixed with thread retainer loctite - there really isn't any other way as there's no provision for a grub screw. The final drive doesn't seem phazed by the grub screw. Anyway, we're feeling quite content right now. Next job is to get the loco running. Thanks for the advice. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 The other issue with grubscrews holding gear onto shafts is that they become an unbalanced mass when the thing is in motion. Gears that fit without grubscrews are best. And it is particularly bad to fit a worm gear with a grubscrew as the worm, being usually the first gear in the stage, is running at high speed and will cause noise and vibration. Having just repaired a BullAnt that the customer took to with superglue, I would also voice a warning about the use of superglue near mechanisms of any type. The customer's BullAnt was totally locked up as he had managed to spread glue all over the place, including coating the wheels. This is not the first time I have had to repair this type of damage, and I virtually had to salvage the motor and replace everything else. Superglue gets into everywhere because of its strong capilliary action, whereas Loktite Retainer, such as 638, does not wick as easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Completely agree Hollywood. I tend to avoid grubscrews on the worm as I've said. The speed of rotation at the final drive axle is quite low so a grubscrew won't have much effect. As to superglue - that was really the point of my post. I wanted to do a straw poll to see what others were doing. As far as my gearbox goes all appears to be well. Superglue does need to be used sparingly and cautiously. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 Good news for Highlevel gearbox users! Highlevel are subtly changing their gearbox design, mainly in order to achieve a grubscrew final-drive fixing on ALL their gearboxes, quite a few were Loctite only. (I'm sure modellers who are anti-grubscrew can still use Loctite) The final-drive gear in my new RoadrunnerPlus is a plastic gear mounted on a brass boss. The new gear is slightly larger in diameter and greater reduction, so the final-drive carriage is slightly longer. The reductions now available in this box are 35, 45, and 60:1; instead of 30,40 and 54. Old RoadrunnerPlus on the left, new on the right. Cheers, Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Good for Chris. He did say he was looking into this some time ago. I see the slots for motor mounting have also changed - hopefully to cater for all the Mashima substitutes we'll have to be moving on to over the next couple of years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Level Kits Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I've just noticed this thread. I wouldn't worry too much about getting a ultra-strong fixing for the shafts, as there is virtually no sideways force on them. If you have room to make them slightly over long, then this can be benificial as it's extra shaft for the glue to grip on. My Black Hawthorn that has run on the stand for the last 15 years or so, has masking tape holding the shafts in - I took it to bits and the tape had long since given up gripping, so the shafts were just sitting there! Almost all the gearboxes have been modified to take the new hybrid gears, which allows grubscrew fixing on the axle. As the gear is tight fit, it will run on centre. It's likely I'll be modifying the designs further, when I decide which type of motors I'll be using. Cheers, Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Yep Chris has had prototypes of the new gearboxes on test with a few people for a wee while now, I put one in a 4F with a Persy chassis and it has been circulating on Wharfeside for a few months now (when the club was open), usually with 40 wagons but has taken 80 round the layout. The instruction was to 'test to destruction' well it hasn't broken yet... So it's a good one. No connection with Highlevel, well apart from being a tester, sounding board and friend.... Dave Franks Edit, Chris got here too, morning Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Level Kits Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Hello Dave, I look in occasionally. Yes the new gearboxes have been around for a few months now so anyone who's had one will already have tried them. I've not been too keen to publicise them as I'm waiting to finalise the design after deciding on motor types and I need an reliable and constant source rather than a series of one-off deals for seconds from someone on Alibaba. The current btach are Mashima-based. I wouldn't worry too much about things going out of balance with grub screws, whether it be fast or slow revolving. I reckon the mass of the grubs screw must be pretty similar to that of the material taken from the hole it occupies... and as a percentage of the whole object it's tiny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 I just made up a new version Roadrunner + 60-1 and have to say I like the design and the grubscrew final drive fixing. Runs beautifully mated to a mitsumi motor, but adjusting the fixing plate for the screws wasn't as easy as I thought - they are offset 30 degrees anti-clockwise so are opposite handed to the those plate. I do wonder if any reliable source of affordable motors will emerge. It might be a case of get what you can and adapt as needed. Being fitted into a very old Whitbourne models 43xx chassis kit (to P4) I discovered in the loft along with a Mainline 43xx and suitable wheels, etc. Seemed a shame not to make it up for something different to do. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 .....Old RoadrunnerPlus on the left, new on the right. IMG_0705 small.jpg I wonder what the measurement between the motor spindle centre and the centre of the initial worm wheel is? I had another madcap idea not long ago, and I was just wondering...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.