DVLR Dave Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Some while ago, I accquired a couple of the above. I beleive that they were a Mainline model re-issued, and my even have been developed from a Trix product. What I have been unable to find out is whether they are accurate representations of a known prototype and, if they are, what was the period that they were in service for (specifically-did they last into the early 1960's). Lastly, were any converted for use as cask wagons or the like? Any information would be most welcome. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 David, They were indeed a Mainline product but not Trix. The prototype was the standard LMS built cattle wagon built from the mid 1920s and lasted to early BR period. With the new BR standard cattle wagons being constructed they would have died out by the mid 1950s although I guess a couple might have hung on. However the model is a shortened version in order to fit the standard mainline chassis and there were many compromises made. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 As far as I have been able to determine, these models are hopelessly inaccurate. The Bachmann model is supposed to represent D1661 derived from a Midland design. They were built from 1923 to 1926. Wheelbase was 11' and body was 19' 1" over headstocks. Unfortunately the Bachmann wagon is built on their standard 10' WB chassis and the body is shortened in proportion. I have a few of these and am at a loss as to what to do with them. This is a great shame since the model is in all other respects quite right. For an accurate model, the Slaters/Coopercraft model is much better. My reference by the way is "Official Drawings of LMS Wagons" by Bob Essery. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 There was, of course, a second R-T-R model of this wagon made by Tri-ang. By contrast, that one is too long (24' long), though most of the error seems to be in the doors. Perhaps if you combined the non-door sides of the Tri-ang with the ends and doors of the Mainline model you might get close to the real dimensions! Of course, they may disagree on height Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 ... I have a few of these and am at a loss as to what to do with them ... Since both these and the Airfix model of the standard 12T corrugated end LMS van could be found cheap at one time, I performed regular transplants of the excellent Airfix van body from its bizarre high wear out rate chassis onto the beter chassis under the cattle wagon. An easy if doubtless inaccurate way to decent running LMS standard vans, a type lamentably lacking from the catalogue. The two dissected remains could also be combined, in my case going to a layout owned by someone young and very country activity oriented, loads of cattle wagons were just the thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVLR Dave Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Oh dear, pretty much what I feared. Thanks to everyone who replied. I have some Airfix Van bodies, so make take that route and acquire some of the newer Bachmann BR cattle wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroudley Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Oh dear, pretty much what I feared. Thanks to everyone who replied. I have some Airfix Van bodies, so make take that route and acquire some of the newer Bachmann BR cattle wagons. isn't that under length as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Oh dear, pretty much what I feared. Thanks to everyone who replied. I have some Airfix Van bodies, so make take that route and acquire some of the newer Bachmann BR cattle wagons. Which are also the wrong body length for some bizarre reason though a lot closer to what they should be than these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 A whole foot underlength if I recall correctly. It is not glaringly obvious to someone like myself who can scarcely recall seeing a cattle wagon in service (resident in an arable area) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 A whole foot underlength if I recall correctly. Nope, it's a foot over (assuming we're talking about the BR standard from a year or two back). I dont recall who sprung the news but quite a few of us hadnt realised, which must say something - I think it's because you expect a cattle van to be longer than a normal goods van Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2011 The current Bachmann cattle van very cleverly manages to be 6 inches too long each side outboard of the centre doors which are correct in relationship to the mostly dimensionally correct chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2011 The current Bachmann cattle van very cleverly manages to be 6 inches too long each side outboard of the centre doors which are correct in relationship to the mostly dimensionally correct chassis. But for the OP and any one else interested in modelling 'LMS' cattle vans, that doesn't improve matters at all. Does anyone make a kit even of an LMS built cattle van (not counting ex-grouping varieties)? Kevin Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 David Geen does - in whitemetal. His kits are reputedly very good and easy to build, although I've never had a go at one myself .... David C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 M/161 Diag. 1661 Cattle Wagon was £12 in 2009. The kits are easy enough to assemble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I don't think Bachmann did anyone any favours, including themselves, when the started stickin their 'blue ribband' labels on the ex Mainline Cattle trucks. I though the intention of the blue ribband accolade was to indicate a 'scale' model like their Mineral wagons, not just any old tat in a new box! Then when the BR version comes out OVER scale length - Grrrrrrrrrr! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2011 I don't think Bachmann did anyone any favours, including themselves, when the started stickin their 'blue ribband' labels on the ex Mainline Cattle trucks. I though the intention of the blue ribband accolade was to indicate a 'scale' model like their Mineral wagons, not just any old tat in a new box! Then when the BR version comes out OVER scale length - Grrrrrrrrrr! Perhaps, chop a pair (one LMS, one BR) in half and join them together again and you get 2 weird looking wagons the correct length! Kevin Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Perhaps, chop a pair (one LMS, one BR) in half and join them together again and you get 2 weird looking wagons the correct length! Kevin Martin Now why didn't I think of that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I had a go at cutting and shutting a Bachmann wagon to get the length right but finally gave up on it. Happily I've heard from PD that they plan to release a D1661 kit early in 2015. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 With an RRP 5p short of £16, I couldn't resist buying three boxed ones for £15 (bit of haggling involved!) at the recent Train Fair in Newton Abbot. I'm afraid I'm the sort who doesn't worry overly about dimensional accuracy, so whether they're a foot longer or shorter than 'the prototype', the ONLY thing that offends my eye is the unrealistic look of those rails across the openings. From an elevated angle, their 1mm thickness (3 inches!) looks clearly over-scale, so, to improve appearances a little (and to render them even more unprototypical, I suppose) I'm replacing them with brass rods that are half their diameter. The rod runs the full length, sitting neatly in the gaping gaps left when the original rails are removed 'as a single unit' (along with the framing they're attached to). I've built up the the lost framing using Perfect Plastic Putty, doing my best to reinstate the grooves that delineate the doors. In the photo (just taken), I've progressed a little further with a coat of primer and paint over the new stuff and a dirtyish cream for the interior. After weathering, I'll be happy with what I think will be a nice little rake of cattle wagons that actually LOOK like cattle wagons, and which are as realistic-looking as I can make them... as they trundle past at a fair rate of knots, coupled together with their tension-lock couplings!! Oh well, it takes all sorts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I should have kept the one I bought new from Frizinghall Models long long ago. When I got it home and unpacked it properly it didn't have any bars. Frinzinghall were very good and I received a replacement in the post (sending the duff one back). Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Hi can any body tell me if these wagons in LMS days had 3 hole disc wheels as iam wanting to re wheel my mainline ones thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted March 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2015 Hi can any body tell me if these wagons in LMS days had 3 hole disc wheels as iam wanting to re wheel my mainline ones thank you Generally new construction had 3 hole disc, but photos exist of them with spoked or even split spoke wheels. Sometimes even a mixture. So perhaps make a pile of wheels & grab a pair while blindfolded! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Thank you that saves me worrying but I will do the whole rake disc it will be uniformed. Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted March 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2015 Thank you that saves me worrying but I will do the whole rake disc it will be uniformed. Thanks again Uniform? Since when were such railway vehicles uniform? An occasional odd one could make things interesting. Maybe 1 in 10? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I see that Bachmann are about to release these in N E livery. Would this be prototypical or purely fictitious? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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