mark axlecounter Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 has anyone had any problems with the 00 stove r mine keeps de railing on facing points i have checked back to backs ( ok ) but still wants to come off the track Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Oh yes axel, I think some people have had issues, especially with code 75 track. I heavily modified the running gear of mine: http://britishmodelr...-and-Dapol.html The link doesn't seem to work. If you go to the blogspot link below you can find it about 4 pages in. Here's what I wrote: "This model has received some sharp criticism since its release. As far as I can tell from consulting some LMS coach literature the upperworks are correct. It is in the underframe where trouble starts. The running gear seems to be nothing but compromise. I have read that the coach won't stay on the track, particularly through points. Wheels are undersize (at 12mm dia, should be 14mm) and flanges are grossly deep. Brake shoes are miles away from the wheels. It isn't easy to replace the wheels since the wheel mounts are fairly thick plastic and you would have to grind through the bridge from pivot to W iron quite drastically to give 14mm wheels clearance. I chose to scrap the wheel mounts and replace them with components from Comet Models. I got the C7 W Iron pack (enough for 3 sets) and C14 Clasp Brakes. I reused the plastic axleboxes but in hindsight I wish I had used the Comet cast ones (C17). Fitting these wasn't easy but after several tries I managed to get all wheelsets at the same height. There is a LOT of fragile detail, much of it came to grief as I was working on the coach but I was able to repair using lashings of superglue. I have run the coach on Allingham and it seems to be OK although I must admit I haven't subjected it to any serious shunting." You really need to change to 14mm wheels but the W irons are quite heavy and require some careful surgery to get the flanges clear. My approach was to use Comet W irons. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted June 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 8, 2012 I found that mine had moulding pips or flash in the place where the axle holders run. These had caused the axles to be off level and not to want to rotate. The hard part of the cure was getting them off the floor; snipping the pips off was easy. That was after adjusting and checking the wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted June 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2012 There are two simple things to do to improve running. Firstly check that the bearing block for the centre axle is screwed tightly down, to do this unclip the axle retainer remove the axle and ensure the cross head screw underneath is tight. This ensures the axle is at the right height and the chassis does not rock on the centre axle. Secondly with uho or similar apply a small blob to glue the outer axle swivel housings fixed. This should improve running without going to the extent of new wheels or w irons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Oh yes axel, I think most people have had issues, especially with code 75 track. Hi John, Just to clear things up, and perhaps to be a little bit 'picky' but Hornby Magazine have sold into 5 figures of these coaches with very little negative feedback or problems reported from the vast majority of customers. So to say 'most people' is in fact grossly innacurate and damming of the model in the eyes of anyone who reads about the StoveR here for the first time and was/is interested in getting one, when in fact the reverse is true. Now i'm not saying that some people didnt have problems with theirs, as that is also plainly true, but please play fair in your prose. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark axlecounter Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 the stove r is good and a nice model but the thing dose not like code 75 its not my layout because all my kit built stuff gose round better then the stove but i will try the method what graham has said if that dose not workthen i will do the method what John has advised with new wheels and running gear i will let you know what the outcome is thank you for your advise mark towers aka axelcounter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I bought three of them. I tried to run one on code 100 track and it kept coming off the road. They've stayed in their boxes ever since. They are very nice models, however, and I will eventually get round to sorting them out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave flint Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Oddly enough I've just been in Manchester"s Ian Allan shop, and they have a pile of these in various colours. It's odd as they don't stock Dapol.....wonder if they're "remaindered" ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Oddly enough I've just been in Manchester"s Ian Allan shop, and they have a pile of these in various colours. It's odd as they don't stock Dapol.....wonder if they're "remaindered" ? No; it will be because Ian Allan who owned Hornby Mag at the point of commissioning also happen to own the Ian Allan bookshop and they sell models in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Oddly enough I've just been in Manchester"s Ian Allan shop, and they have a pile of these in various colours. It's odd as they don't stock Dapol.....wonder if they're "remaindered" ? Are they cheap? The chassis was awful but the body isn't bad apart from the door hinge issue. Dave people probably haven't bothered feeding back about issues. I know in the club they all got modified to have the proper wheels, accurate brake gear and rigid wheelbase. I've held off getting one as I didn't think the project was worth supporting when there were so many errors. With the works drawings of the prototype underframe components now though I have started etching an accurate chassis for one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I'll second Craig's posting. I got mine when they first came out, and took it down to the club for a run round Dewsbury Midland and it fell off. A lot. Fact. As it was being converted to EM in the long run I wasnt overtly bothered with its running qualities as it stood, but after I'd done the job was gobsmacked at the amount of time it had taken me to get a reliable running chassis out of it. Would I buy another one (I could really use at least one more for my Red Bank train) - until these issues are sorted out, an unequivacable no, particularly at the price being charged for a relatively small vehicle. Value for money? I rather think not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Hi John, Just to clear things up, and perhaps to be a little bit 'picky' but Hornby Magazine have sold into 5 figures of these coaches with very little negative feedback or problems reported from the vast majority of customers. So to say 'most people' is in fact grossly innacurate and damming of the model in the eyes of anyone who reads about the StoveR here for the first time and was/is interested in getting one, when in fact the reverse is true. Now i'm not saying that some people didnt have problems with theirs, as that is also plainly true, but please play fair in your prose. Cheers Dave Dave, your figures don't lie and I should not have used the word "most" - I don't have a big enough sample size to back that up. Apologies. However, all those in my circle had problems (not all that many to be sure). I modified mine as you saw and that of my friend. These run fine now. The model's upperworks accuracy is very good as far as I can tell (after comparing to drawings and photos). I also bought the LMS version and was disappointed when comparing to photos that the central lining is in the wrong place. I've been in this business a long time so I don't get all wound up over minor issues - I can fix 'em myself. I do consider this model to be an abberation for Dapol and have to wonder if pressure/specification from Hornby Mag/Ian Allen resulted in the running gear design. Your products are generally of a high standard and I applaud your initiatives wrt signals and O gauge. I hope that if Dapol produces a six wheeled vehicle in the future, this criticism will be taken into account. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave flint Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 No; it will be because Ian Allan who owned Hornby Mag at the point of commissioning also happen to own the Ian Allan bookshop and they sell models in there. I'll accept that as the reason they're in there. However, as there are twenty nine of the things piled up there - over four versions admittedly - I'm still happy to consider them "remaindered". There's certainly not 29 of any other model in there...... And no, I didn't see a price nor any point in asking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Hmmm, having missed these on release (or cynically thinking I'll come back to them later) I'm extremely interested in any examples that have found their way to the IA outlets. Time for a look in Brum I expect, maroons and blues very welcome here, remedial or other work notwithstanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Hi John, Just to put this in the clear. The StoveR was a Hornby Magazine (Hornby being part if the IA group, hence in their shops). they specified the model, the paint finish and signed off on everything as being accepted for production after testing quite rigidly. Im afraid that an 'abberation' for a company who makes exactly what was asked of him isnt an abberation on said company, is it? maybe i'm wrong. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted June 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 8, 2012 I'm more than happy with the two N Gauge versions I have. Look good and have never fallen off the track. Perhaps OO Gauge modellers should consider changing scale? Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2012 Just to put this in the clear. The StoveR was a Hornby Magazine (Hornby being part if the IA group, hence in their shops). they specified the model, the paint finish and signed off on everything as being accepted for production after testing quite rigidly. Im afraid that an 'abberation' for a company who makes exactly what was asked of him isnt an abberation on said company, is it? maybe i'm wrong. Cheers Dave I don't think you're one tiny bit wrong Dave - the example of Kernow proves that absolutely because there the commissioning client got a superb result by making sure he got his spec right and that the Chinese factory contracted through you produced to spec and his satisfaction. If Kernow can manage a relationship with Dapol and through them to get the right result (and more to come I'm anticipating) then it is pretty clear to me that the system can work and produce good results - as long as the customer knows what he wants and specifies accordingly. We know Dapol can do it on its own and we know Dapol can do it as part of a commissioned model process - and provided the results keep coming that is all the proof which is needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 That is very well said Mike and kind of where I was going with my comments. I think I should stop now before the hole I've dug gets too deep. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Hi John, Dont worry, no hole dug. cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 ... However, as there are twenty nine of the things piled up there - over four versions admittedly - I'm still happy to consider them "remaindered". And no, I didn't see a price nor any point in asking. To be fair, and regardless of how many there are, I think you could only really class them as remaindered if the price had been reduced. Which is probably the point most folk are interested in Just to put this in the clear. The StoveR was a Hornby Magazine (Hornby being part if the IA group, hence in their shops). they specified the model, the paint finish and signed off on everything as being accepted for production after testing quite rigidly. Im afraid that an 'abberation' for a company who makes exactly what was asked of him isnt an abberation on said company, is it? So, can you unequivocally state that it was Hornby Magazine who specified the undersize wheels? This is a point that's been shrouded in mystery since the model first appeared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Hi Pennine, I can state that Hornby Magazine signed off on every aspect of the coach, and were happy with the running characteristics under test (pushing through pointwork and pulling). cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 That's not quite what I asked, but never mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 That's not quite what I asked, but never mind. Well it does give a fairly unambiguos conclusion - That it was Dapol who decided the wrong wheel diameter (and for that matter the chassis design) and Model Rail signed it off, probably never checking that wheels were correct or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redkiterail Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 it was Hornby magazine not model rail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Perhaps if the silly unrestricted 'steering axles' were to be gotten rid of it would work much better. Surely everyone who builds stuff knows that if an axle goes much off square to the track it will derail everywhere including plain track. Even Triang-Hornby got their long wheelbase vans to work all those years ago by simply springing the 'steering' wheelsets to centre. Nope, having wheelsets that wapple about all over the place is a recipe for disaster, obviously no-one at Ian Allan has ever had a trainset..... As suggested, glue them up straight and it works. Personally I think the whole 'Stove' saga has harmed Dapol, Hornby magazine and in some peoples eyes, Hornby Railways even though they had nothing to do with it.... I bet they were sniggering until the flack came incorrectly in their direction.... Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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