MG 7305 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I have been wondering why Hornby are releasing a Hall and Watson, I have worked it out. Hornby have the Harry Potter Hogwart's Express franchise and it is a cash cow. They have finally shifted the last of the old castle versions of 5972 "Hogwart's Castle" and exhausted stocks of chassis and body shells. The new castle is too expensive or heavy on production time to replace it. Hence the need for a new Hogwart's Castle so they decided to make a Hall getting 2 benefits. The first being that the model will be a reproduction of the real 5972 and the second being another model in the range, albeit a duplicate of Bachmann's model. Well Moriarty, what is your theory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Yes; Hornby have a licence to produce Hogwart's express in the UK and at least are producing the right loco this time around. The other models are spin-off benefit for the muggles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinjamesporter Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 The hogwarts express is the main reason. But i assume it also fits into the design clever idea. If done with seperate would enable them to do a Saint class in the future with the minimum work as the first hall was a rebuilt saint. Best wishes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Hornby need a cheap to produce GWR 4-6-0 for the Railroad Range so they can cover the big 4 on a relatively equal footing. The ex-Dapol County probably still has too many fiddly bits to be really sustainable and was always a bit of an odd choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think i read somewhere the original Hall tooling was modified in 1988 to create the Saint. I did think it was odd when they announced a Hall, given that Bachmann already do a good one for less money than the Hall announced in Hornby's main range ... but I reckon the RR Hogwarts deal will more than pay for the difference ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 The LNER, economical as always, had a class of locomotives named after both halls and castles. As well as a few named after teams that play a rather strange game with a ball. Hornby have recently introduce some models of hese machines, so I suppose they did not want the GWR fans throwing their toys out of the pram and screaming that they had been neglected yet again. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Hornby have recently introduce some models of [LNER 4-6-0] machines, so I suppose they did not want the GWR fans throwing their toys out of the pram and screaming that they had been neglected yet again. "Throwing my toys out of my pram?" With a Star to look forward to? Never! Of course the beard rending and hand-wringing about 'proper' pre-nationalization coaching stock for that Star to pull is well underway - toplights one day will be nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2012 Question: Take a Hall (2-cylinder 6'0" wheels Collett cab, newly announced) cross it with a Star (4 cyl 6'8" wheels Churchward cab, newly announced) and what do you get? Answer: Saint (2 cyl 6'8" wheels Churchward cab) My prediction for a future Hornby loco (as Colinjamesporter also notes) One of the benefits of GWR standardisation? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Question: Take a Hall (2-cylinder 6'0" wheels Collett cab, newly announced) cross it with a Star (4 cyl 6'8" wheels Churchward cab, newly announced) and what do you get? Answer: Saint (2 cyl 6'8" wheels Churchward cab) A glance at the relevant diagrams will indicate there is a lot more to it than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2012 A glance at the relevant diagrams will indicate there is a lot more to it than that. I know, I have all the diagrams at hand. One assumes that allowances have been made in the basic models to allow a possible Saint using a combination of parts. e.g. a model Star chassis would be a good starting point for a Saint chassis. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think i read somewhere the original Hall tooling was modified in 1988 to create the Saint.... That was the old Triang tooling, incorrect in almost every respect. I see Hornby have marked the new "Hall" as new tooling, so it will be an interesting head-to-head with Bachmann, just as with the Std.4 4-6-0 and the "08" shunter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 One assumes that allowances have been made in the basic models to allow a possible Saint using a combination of parts. e.g. a model Star chassis would be a good starting point for a Saint chassis. I think not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exet1095 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 A Star is a four cylinder Saint. Same boiler, wheel sizes, bogie and wheelbase. Shorter cab, fatter cylinders different sidebars and crossheads. Nothing under the smokebox. Obviously, Saints have a lot of differences between each other, such as whether the pistons are in line with he wheel centres, but much of the CAD would be useable for any variant with a full-coned boiler, as well as the main chassis and some of the tenders. Square drop ends and straight frames would also work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Will they be doing a bright red version which carries the Managing Director's name and the works telephone number? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted December 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2012 i bet we will see Toplights veeeerrryy soon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think not. Please elaborate. IMHO you are not thinking it through. Taking a typical pair of engines from, say, the 1920-30s: The main difference between the Saint and the Star (apart from the cylinders) is a shorter front end with 2" less between the leading drivers and the bogie pivot and about a foot shorter to the buffers. I.e. the smokebox overhangs more on a Saint. Most of the dimensions from the leading drivers backward are the same or very close. They could be easily accomodated during the model making process. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Question: Take a Hall (2-cylinder 6'0" wheels Collett cab, newly announced) cross it with a Star (4 cyl 6'8" wheels Churchward cab, newly announced) and what do you get? Answer: Saint (2 cyl 6'8" wheels Churchward cab) My prediction for a future Hornby loco (as Colinjamesporter also notes) One of the benefits of GWR standardisation? Keith By that reason I was thinking that the NER standardisation practice that continued into the LNER might have seen us get a K1 this year as they have the tender, boiler (or there abouts), cab, etc. which would have seen me leap with joy at the Hornby annoucement. Maybe next year for me too.... With regards the Hogwarts thing - does Hornby still have the licence to do Potter stuff, as the engine is being done in its guise as Olton Hall, albeit red, not carrying the name Hogwarts Castle on the nameplate (I would think its still there on the crest) and that might get them around having to pay the royalties for it? Just a thought... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 does Hornby still have the licence to do Potter stuff, Yes; that's why I said so in post #2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Yes; that's why I said so in post #2. Okay, just enquiring. I think Olton Halls plates coming back, had something to do with the licence for the film having ended... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 i bet we will see Toplights veeeerrryy soon! I am not convinced. Too many variations. Whas there such a thing as a BR toplight as most had been plated over? New version of 1925 stock with full range of thirds, brake compos etc much more straight forward. Back to original question. The Castle wheel base is common to the Star, Hall, Saint and gives Hornby the opportunity to re introduce an old favourite, brought up to date but robust (design clever!). The Bachmann Hall has a fragile regulator pipe and hand rail whuch breaks very easily. Also I assume the original Airfix Castle tooling is getting a bit tired now (1976 stamped on my original) and if the Hogwarts cash cow is to continue, this is the perfect opportunity to serve several markets at once, not just the Potter fans. I assume it is a similar story with the MK I stock. If Hornby want to create a USP (unique selling point) produce a version with the 3,500 gallon tender as attached to the Grange - not offered by Bachmann so far. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 ... Potter fans. I assume it is a similar story with the MK I stock... I predict a clever gizmo of wires and fishing line with the new mk1s that will permit a blue Ford Anglia model to fly about above the train if it is vigorously operated, ending with a crash landing in which the doors fly off. The Voldemort turbo car will be arriving shortly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted December 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2012 I say Why not? The Bachmann version always niggled a bit with its shape but is OK, however if the Hornby model is better then it will sell. Really Hornby should have gone for a Manor as the Bachmann one is in need of a facelift, unless Bachmann plan to revitalise their model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted December 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2012 One part I don't understand. Under olton halls page, it says minimal detail, but if hogwarts castle then as per 1:1. Does this mean the Hogwarts named version will be higher spec? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted December 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2012 Will they be doing a bright red version which carries the Managing Director's name and the works telephone number? Geoff Endacott Could be a collectors item, as after his Cunning Olympics plan ,his Ratners moment ,and the failure to secure A diverse manufacturing base, I reckon Mr Martins days are numbered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 One part I don't understand. Under olton halls page, it says minimal detail, but if hogwarts castle then as per 1:1. Does this mean the Hogwarts named version will be higher spec? I'm not sure what you mean here. The Hornby page for R3169 (Olton Hall) says almost nothing besides price and Railroad branding. Curiously the livery description is "GWR". Given that it will be in Hogwarts livery in Harry Potter trainsets, is the standalone R3169 liveried for 11am departures from Platform 9¾, or actually liveried for the GWR I wonder? R3170 (Adderley Hall) is essentially the same with Railroad branding and also lists for £82.99 R3205 (Rood Ashton Hall) in BR livery is the high-spec model. At £119.99, it is 45% more expensive, and lists the following: Motor: 5 Pole Skew Wound DCC Ready: DCC Ready Livery: BR Detail: Cab Detail, Brake Gear, Etched Nameplates Finish: Pristine Special Features Sprung Buffers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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