Hornby P2

[LocomotionatShildon]

Well since I am far away from Hartlepool, is it possible for you to post images of the 2-HAL (assuming it's a more advance prototype), BR Mk2 and the Crosti 9F after this coming weekend? Since many will be seeing it there and many more won't be able to see it, it would be rather lovely if images can be posted in the respective topics

Cheers!

 

I am not much of a photographer as those who know me will testify, but I'll try to get a half decent pic

[Coldgunner]

Anyone want to join me and the rest of the tunneling committee at a secret location in Durham?

 

Interested to see how the railroad and premium stack up.

[robmcg]

One could ask why Hattons were still showing July when the trade website has long been showing August 25th!

 

Keith

 

I received an email from Hattons politely advising;

 

"Hornby R3171 Class P2 2-8-2 2001 'Cock O' The North' in LNER livery (Railroad range) £73.00

 

Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us on or after Tuesday 29th July 2014

 

Whilst we are hopeful this information is accurate, manufacturer lead times are frequently prone to be delayed. This information is to be used as a guide only.

 

We hope that this email has been useful."

 

Note the caveat, it's a guide only...

 

It would be nice to see a photo of a RR version, too.

 

Rob

 

[Multiple identity account]

I am not much of a photographer as those who know me will testify, but I'll try to get a half decent pic

Ahh... well it's just a photograph so something is better than nothing. Would just be nice to see the latest samples of the 2HAL, Mk2E and Crosti 9F.

[LocomotionatShildon]

My best efforts

[RedgateModels]

other side of the Crosti please

[t-b-g]

Okay then, who's going to make him look the other way and who's going to nick the P2, just in case its the only chance to get one?

 

Incidentally, a matter that was discussed discretely at the Locomotion model event last September seems to have remained very effectively under wraps. If that project is still "on" then congratulations must be in order for the NRM organisation having remained so effectively leak-proof.

 

So, a secret project going on in the North East. Got to be a Gresley "Hush hush".

[bigherb]

I like the 700

Hope you don't mind locomotion I have just lightened your picture to show some more detail.

 

[Multiple identity account]

My best efforts image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

Thank you so much for sharing those pictures. The 2HAL, Crosti 9F and Mk2E look great!!

[DonnyRailMan]

I`ll just be glad when I get my P2 , wait as been long than waiting for a Scotsman o buy a round.

[robmcg]

here if this is ok a slightly sharper idea of the RR P2 CotN, a rather hurried version, from the LocomotionatShildon pic above, hope this doesn't cause offence.

 

Handsome looking engine for £73! Should give an idea of the RR version.

 

Edited July 9, 2014 by robmcg

[hornbyandbf3fan]

The D16 doesn't half look good

[S.A.C Martin]

Railroad P2 appears to have cab glazing…is it just me?

 

That D16/3 looks utterly sublime. If it has the brass bearings on the axles, a decent motor…well, my order will be doubled instantly.

[Market65]

The D16 doesn't half look good

Hi. Yes it looks great - hence my clicking on the agree button. Also I am getting one, since in, 1957, I think, there was a railtour which took in places such as Beverley, Market Weighton, etc, (I have a photo' of it near Kipling Cotes).

So, if it has the brass bearings etc, then that train is going to be recreated on my layout - I have the LMS coaches that formed the train. It is, hopefully, looking brighter for Hornby. I still cannot decide about the P2 - I think it is the square axle-boxes, and moulded detail that is making me think we have gone backwards here - not so with the D16/3 or K1, they are a return to the good days - as far as I know.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[robmcg]

Railroad P2 appears to have cab glazing…is it just me?

 

That D16/3 looks utterly sublime. If it has the brass bearings on the axles, a decent motor…well, my order will be doubled instantly.

 

Yes it has cab glazing by my eye.

 

I think it looks potentially brilliant and what a sharp price!  I shall probably prefer weathering one of the RR versions to the main range version, but it's early days. I am pleased the valve gear and cylinder area looks like it has been properly assembled!

Edited July 9, 2014 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Hi. Yes it looks great - hence my clicking on the agree button. Also I am getting one, since in, 1957, I think, there was a railtour which took in places such as Beverley, Market Weighton, etc, (I have a photo' of it near Kipling Cotes).

So, if it has the brass bearings etc, then that train is going to be recreated on my layout - I have the LMS coaches that formed the train. It is, hopefully, looking brighter for Hornby. I still cannot decide about the P2 - I think it is the square axle-boxes, and moulded detail that is making me think we have gone backwards here - not so with the D16/3 or K1, they are a return to the good days - as far as I know.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

 

It's not clear from the RR P2 pic whether the boiler handrails, deflector and cab handrails are separate or not. If they are separate, great, it looks like the coupling rods are two-piece, I cannot imagine otherwise for an eight-coupled engine.  That leaves what I imagine are probably square bearing housings, and I hope the pickups and motor (whether the latter be 3 pole or 5 pole) are strong and silent.  I personally don't mind square bearings if they work, but others might want something more attractive, smooth-running and durable. (Do the square type actually wear out in say 100 hours of running?)

 

For me there is nothing nicer than a quiet smooth DC mechanism, and Hornby have proven they can do that superbly well in the past.

 

Edit; I have looked closely at my enlarged version of the P2 pic and the boiler handrail is I am 90% sure separate,  not sure about cab handrail and tender...   the boiler handrail ought to be separate, even at £72 retail.

Edited July 9, 2014 by robmcg

[gr.king]

Unless the tooling has undergone an inexplicably expensive alteration since the sample models appeared at Barrow Hill last September, then the boiler handrails will undoubtedly be separate and the cab handrails very effectively "undercut but moulded".

[t-b-g]

For £73 that is a rather lovely looking loco. Possibly the best value RTR model ever produced. If there was not a more up market version being produced and that one appeared in the shops at £100, I reckon they would have shifted plenty at that price.

 

I certainly wouldn't have thought twice.

 

As for the detailing, in that photo it looks very nice. If we can't tell which handrails are moulded and which are separate by looking at normal sort of distances, then is it really that important a factor?

[Ian Hargrave]

Agreed....but it is a big issue on this forum,as you are no doubt aware

[t-b-g]

Agreed....but it is a big issue on this forum,as you are no doubt aware

 

Perhaps a big issue to a small but vocal minority. The actual number of people who have commented about it must be tiny compared the the membership of the forum and the total model railway market place.

[Ian Hargrave]

Perhaps a big issue to a small but vocal minority. The actual number of people who have commented about it must be tiny compared the the membership of the forum and the total model railway market place.

Point made....but tin hats on for 'incoming'....

[S.A.C Martin]

No one really had a problem with moulded handrails on a Railroad model. I certainly don't and have gone to extreme lengths to detail specific Railroad models to that end.

 

Where the criticism lies is in selling models at top whack, prices comparable to super detail models but with a reduction in detailing (including moulded handrails to an extent).

 

It would be easier if Hornby had a consistent approach to models in their range/ranges but where that has been blurred is in models such as DoG. Tornado to a lesser extent because the A1 Trust helped spec that model and it makes sense to make versions of that model more easily available (price wise) to the general public.

 

The P2 seen in last November's BRM - Tony Wright's review - is the exception for me because the handrails looked much better than those on, say, DoG and on their Railroad A4/Flying Scotsman models.

 

There was also the question of removing moulded handrails on a model with complicated or easily damaged liveries which is a fair point. However in the case of the P2, the Railroad model should be the one to go for in that respect if you intend to do some modelling (as I intend to - several Railroad P2s on order for various projects).

[robmcg]

Those projects Simon include other versions of the P2 2-8-2?  As mentioned elsewhere, not a simple matter.  Do you have any specific ideas and plans?

 

It looks as if the CotN mouldings might allow a A4-style front (is this called a 'Bugatti' front?) but the A4 and P2 fronts were totally different in dimensions as you pointed out.

 

It would be great to know if the later front is do-able. Apologies if I haven't read previous posts well enough.

 

Rob

[S.A.C Martin]

Those projects Simon include other versions of the P2 2-8-2?  As mentioned elsewhere, not a simple matter.  Do you have any specific ideas and plans?

 

It looks as if the CotN mouldings might allow a A4-style front (is this called a 'Bugatti' front?) but the A4 and P2 fronts were totally different in dimensions as you pointed out.

 

It would be great to know if the later front is do-able. Apologies if I haven't read previous posts well enough.

 

Rob

 

Not quite Rob - if I may quote myself:

 

 

The curvature of the actual wedge shape - not the running plate - is the difficult bit and this is made easier by having a similarly designed locomotive to work from. Overlaying the A4 and P2 drawings from Isinglass for engine no.2006 shows that modification of an A4 front end at the top where the chimney is, and around the running plate area is not a difficult task, but to create from scratch the dips, curves and shape around smokebox doors and the buffers of the bugatti nose is.

 

The A3 is entirely relevant to my point about the modelling skills required for the P2 conversion: it might not have had smokebox surgery but it has had an entirely new cab mated to the body shell, a moulded round dome removed, the section of missing boiler by that filled in and filed back to match and a similar job on the moulded chimney, removed and replaced with a resin replacement after again, doing a lot of plastic bonding, filling and filing...

 

In short, pretty much all of the modelling required to do the same thing on the P2 nose.

 

I'll post pictures when I'm good and ready of the P2 nose and will do so on my thread in good time, once I've had delivery of my Railroad P2s.

 

Incidentally - and just as a point of information as I notice you've [referring to blackout - Simon] mentioned the plug in front end of the P2. I should point out that the only front end you can put on the front of the Hornby no.2001 body shell is likely to be no.2002 as built. This is down to a few detail points.

 

Nos. 2001 and 2002 share the original type of Gresley cab, which although V fronted as per the A4s and other P2s, retains the large cut out similar to the A1s and A3s of the time. When rebuilt as streamlined P2s, their cabs were modified to have the short cut out. Since Hornby's no.2001 model has the large cut out on the cab and not the short cut out, the body shell is only suitable for now 2001 and 2002 in this manner.

 

In addition, nos. 2001-2005 have the same boiler type and no. 2006 is different to all of the rest by having the unique larger boiler. This means the washout plug arrangement is different and therefore, whether you modify the cab or not on the Hornby model, it would still need some level of modification to be right for no.2006.

 

In short, there's no chance that this particular Hornby body shell has been designed for fitting a streamlined front, but it is likely to have been designed for fitting a no.2002 front end. It's perhaps possible that the same design technique has been employed to have one streamlined front plug in as per 2001 here, but to fit two if not three other body shells, taking into account the different boiler and cab types.

 

[robmcg]

Thankyou Simon.

 

I was looking at Hornby's website just now and the RR CotN R3171 shows the standard catalogue view, which is not always dead reliable, but which has cylinder drains, brake rods, front hose, front steps, and is generally quite sharp,  so I added them to the pic I made a few messages ago,   confident that this inexpensive model will have these details supplied or fitted.

 

I think the spoked and painted tender wheels look very good too.  I look forward to being dragged away from Heljan Garratts by this monster.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

Edited July 12, 2014 by robmcg