Hornby P2

[brushman47544]

This is a copy of the entry on LNER Forum

 

 

Quote

 

I actually ordered COTN on 17 Dec 2012, along with the J11 which was delivered around 17 Feb 2014.

Hatton’s system then re-dated my order for COTN to that date in Feb 2014!!

They have admitted this is an error in their system, but I am awaiting confirmation that they will honour my original order date and therefore my place in the queue!

 

 

 

 

So to end all the speculation it appears to be a simple computer error at Hattons. The customer is still trying to confirm if he will get a C of the N in due course .Fingers crossed

Interesting. I'm not sure it is a computer error as such. I too have found that if I pre-order a number of items that a new order number is issued for the rest if only part of the order is supplied. I've never missed out as a result, but I have wondered if my original place in the queue was maintained. Ever since I've not taken a chance and pre-ordered every item separately. Edited April 9, 2014 by brushman47544

[gr.king]

An interesting and perhaps very significant observation - your tactic seems well worth following.

 

Not that I've ever found myself ordering more than one item at once, but I'll bear it in mind if I ever do.

Edited April 9, 2014 by gr.king

[rodger5591]

This is a copy of the entry on LNER Forum

 

 

Quote

 

I actually ordered COTN on 17 Dec 2012, along with the J11 which was delivered around 17 Feb 2014.

 

Hatton’s system then re-dated my order for COTN to that date in Feb 2014!!

 

They have admitted this is an error in their system, but I am awaiting confirmation that they will honour my original order date and therefore my place in the queue!

 

 

 

 

So to end all the speculation it appears to be a simple computer error at Hattons. The customer is still trying to confirm if he will get a C of the N in due course .Fingers crossed

 

I think it might have something to do with their website ordering system also. The P2 has been showing as "no longer taking orders" for some time now, but about 10 days ago, I noticed that despite the note that they were no longer taking orders, the 'pre-order now" button on the P2 page was still there (it normally disappears when they stop taking pre-orders). So I clicked the button, placed the order and received an automatic confirmation email. Then 2 days ago I received the email saying that the pre-order had to be cancelled as they couldnt supply the item.

 

Perhaps other customers did the same thing, and when Hattons did an audit of their P2 orders, they discovered the "pre-order" button was still active when it shouldn't have been, and they were still taking orders that they couldn't meet. So perhaps it is only those "excess" orders that are being cancelled - just speculation on my part tho.

Edited April 9, 2014 by rodger5591

[Colin_McLeod]

Probably correct. I have not received any e mail from Hattons advising of a cancellation. My pre order was 13/09/13

[60800]

My order for the P2 from Hattons still stands although there was an alteration in December 2013 with the first part of the order (an A4) being delivered

[Hroth]

Just got an email from Hattons regarding my preorder for the Railroad version of CotN - "Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us July 2014".

 

Ho-Hum, business as usual!

 

 

(Currently their website still advises "on or after 28th April")

 

Edit:  15/4/14 Latest quoted date "on or after 16th July".   *sigh*

Edited April 15, 2014 by Hroth

[DonnyRailMan]

Still wish Hornby where making two versions of the P2, one being the streamlined A4 style. 

But looking forward to getting my Cock O The North.

 

 

                         D.R.M.

[Hilux5972]

From the preproduction pics it looks as though the smokebox section is a separate fitting so they may produce the streamlined version.

[69843]

I would think that Hornby would cater for this and the Earl Marischal front end(s)

[JeremyC]

Cock o' the North was the only member of the class fitted with the ACFI feed water heater. Producing other versions of the P2 will therefore depend on whether the raised cover plate on the RH side of the boiler for the waterheater connections is a separate part or the boiler mould has provision for removing it. The raised plate is, IIRC from seeing the pre-production model, behind the split for the smokebox section.

http://www.lner.info/locos/P/p2.shtml 2nd photo down shows the cover

Jeremy

Edited June 22, 2014 by JeremyC

[micklner]

According to the Prince of Wales 2007 site they are saying Hornby will be doing a version.

If it has been designed properly then no reason why the Streamlined  front version cannot be made a well.

[shunny]

At my local shop yesterday and the owner was looking on the Hornby trade site and the P2 has slipped back until August if this keeps going back the full size one will be here first!

[Hilux5972]

This is getting ridiculous. BRM made a video of a Hornby P2 last year. If they had one then, why is it taking so long to release them?

[S.A.C Martin]

Manufacturing slots most likely. Waiting for one to come up. No longer as simple as made in Margate, together with appropriate spares, and distributed around the country. I understand the economics argued for in a number of threads but I wonder if bringing production closer to Britain (eastern block or similar) would actually benefit the industry at the point. The point was made to me recently that, for all the criticism on manufacturing capacity, the Chinese workers are extremely skilled and it's not guaranteed you would receive the level of detail and quality elsewhere (speaking of china made model railway items at their best of course - see Hornby's Thompson O1 or B1).

[andyman7]

Indeed. At this point in time if we the public want one of these to the price and specification quoted, we have to take our turn for a Chinese plant to turn them out! 

Edited June 1, 2014 by andyman7

[Brit70053]

This is getting ridiculous. BRM made a video of a Hornby P2 last year. If they had one then, why is it taking so long to release them?

The thread under 'Bachmann' - "Possible production problems for Far East Manufactured Models" - might give you some indication.

It looks like many Brands are having problems getting product to market, including those that own manufacturing facilities, let alone those like Hornby, dependent on others for production.

 

Regards,

 

              John

[Accurascale Fran]

This is getting ridiculous. BRM made a video of a Hornby P2 last year. If they had one then, why is it taking so long to release them?

 

Hopefully they realised that this 'design clever' lark was a folly and have decided to make it to an A4, B1, 01 standard after all.

 

Doubt it mind...

[t-b-g]

What puzzles me is that the usual way of doing things is for the model to be produced and for a few samples to be flown here for magazines/reviews and the rest is then put in a container to arrive several weeks later by sea.

 

I can't imagine a situation where a factory will tool up to produce a handful and then produce the main batch later.

 

So if we know that at least one P2 model exists, there is, in my view, a very good chance that they all do.

 

There didn't seem to be any major problems with the one that arrived, certainly nothing that would require the models to be withdrawn and re-made, so is there a big box languishing in a factory or warehouse somewhere with a load of P2s in it?

 

Are we seeing some sort of serious breakdown in the supply chain, either as a result of a dispute or financial problems?

 

One thing is for sure, somebody has put a lot of money into developing a model that is just not getting to market so somebody has had lots of expenditure with no return, which cannot be good for business. 

 

Tony

Edited June 1, 2014 by t-b-g

[The Stationmaster]

What puzzles me is that the usual way of doing things is for the model to be produced and for a few samples to be flown here for magazines/reviews and the rest is then put in a container to arrive several weeks later by sea.

 

I can't imagine a situation where a factory will tool up to produce a handful and then produce the main batch later.

 

So if we know that at least one P2 model exists, there is, in my view, a very good chance that they all do.

 

There didn't seem to be any major problems with the one that arrived, certainly nothing that would require the models to be withdrawn and re-made, so is there a big box languishing in a factory or warehouse somewhere with a load of P2s in it?

 

Are we seeing some sort of serious breakdown in the supply chain, either as a result of a dispute or financial problems?

 

One thing is for sure, somebody has put a lot of money into developing a model that has just not getting to market so somebody has had lots of expenditure with no return, which cannot be good for business. 

 

Tony

I suspect that you might be nearer the truth than anyone else in those comments.  It seems, from all I have heard in the past, that the Chinese factories produce models in batches of 500 or thereabouts.  Thus if there are, say, 3 or 4 out for review with the mags etc then in theory there are at least another 490 sitting somewhere.  equally if factories have an order which matches Hornby's pre-orders from retailers (and it has been said in the past that the P2 is a sell out at trade level) then logically more batches of 500 would have been produced so producing the entire order at once.

 

Now it could be that 'test pieces' go through to establish production methods and process before the full run starts - we know this happens during development so conceivably there could be a full production test with only a limited number fully assembled and finished?  But that also implies piles of components sitting around which surely the factory want to get off their hands and get the money in?  Somewhere there seems to be more to all of this than we are getting to know about (possibly for very good reasons of course) but the 'stuttering' appearance of many models, in small batches at first, from Hornby in particular does seem very difficult to explain, and the company itself isn't helping.

[aussiebrfan]

I suspect that you might be nearer the truth than anyone else in those comments.  It seems, from all I have heard in the past, that the Chinese factories produce models in batches of 500 or thereabouts.  Thus if there are, say, 3 or 4 out for review with the mags etc then in theory there are at least another 490 sitting somewhere.  equally if factories have an order which matches Hornby's pre-orders from retailers (and it has been said in the past that the P2 is a sell out at trade level) then logically more batches of 500 would have been produced so producing the entire order at once.

 

Now it could be that 'test pieces' go through to establish production methods and process before the full run starts - we know this happens during development so conceivably there could be a full production test with only a limited number fully assembled and finished?  But that also implies piles of components sitting around which surely the factory want to get off their hands and get the money in?  Somewhere there seems to be more to all of this than we are getting to know about (possibly for very good reasons of course) but the 'stuttering' appearance of many models, in small batches at first, from Hornby in particular does seem very difficult to explain, and the company itself isn't helping.

 

 

"Stop dithering Watson, the game is afoot" - S. Holmes

[bigherb]

What puzzles me is that the usual way of doing things is for the model to be produced and for a few samples to be flown here for magazines/reviews and the rest is then put in a container to arrive several weeks later by sea.

 

I can't imagine a situation where a factory will tool up to produce a handful and then produce the main batch later.

They are preproduction models usually made in the tool room to test the mould and the paint masks/tampo printers work correctly and to work out an assembly sequence for when the models hit the production line.

[Hroth]

August, is it now?

 

I preordered back in August 2013, when the P2 was definitely going to show up before (or was it just after?) Christmas. Its now creeping inexorably onwards, I expect we'll be at Christmas 2014 before it arrives.

 

Hey-ho....

 

Given the late arrival time, perhaps it SHOULD be in British Rail livery!

[S.A.C Martin]

Has it really been seven months since this post?

 

Since we saw these excellent shots of what really is a very striking model...

 

 

Just can't believe we can see such a complete pre-production/production batch model and not as yet see the actual model in the shops yet.

 

I've spoken to my regular retailer and to a few others and the general gloom surrounding Hornby is apparent at the moment. Just what is going on in Margate at the moment?

[WD0-6-0]

I received an email a few months back that the sound version would be August if they earlier version announced (I believe) the best part of a year earlier has been delayed until August where does that leave the sound version? January 2017 anyone?

Tad miffed

[gr.king]

No point getting annoyed - there's nothing we can do about it save for enjoying the extra breathing space for our wallets. I don't suppose Hornby management is very pleased about these consequences of socio-economic change in China. They can't make money if they have no goods to sell, but what are they to do? Having tried to please us by using the out-sourcing of manufacture in order to deliver incredible detail at reasonable prices, they can neither go back to 1990s levels of Margate manufactured detail, nor raise prices to Marklin / Fleischmann levels or higher in order to deliver ultra-detail via home manufacture. We wouldn't buy the products.

As Brit70053 points out above, the same fundamental problems of change in China are hitting other brands too, so Hornby's "huge error" (according to some comments / inferences) of failing to buy the factory seems less significant now.