Wickham Green Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) Are they raised or printed onto the glass? one is possible, the other is.. less. Judging by the pictures at the top of this page I'd say they're raised .......... raising ( sorry ! ) the possibilty of dropping a few if your layout's running a Summer Timetable ( and it's not chucking it down with rain ) ! OK ..... the top of the LAST page then ! Edited November 9, 2017 by Wickham Green Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Would be really interested to know how easily they fit in. I'm assuming they are the "Coach (SECR Clipped OVAL) Sprung Buffer (Pkt 4) "? On another note, has anyone taken theirs apart yet, or can see how easy it might be to remove the glazing? I currently have a set of the olive green ones on pre-order but I was thinking of repainting them Malachite anyways, seems like a shame to paint over (and pay extra for) the extensive lining out. If it's a relatively simple process I may just get some of the BR liveried ones instead. If anyone has any pictures of how the glazing attaches and how it might come out, or if anyone has done that I would love to see! This afternoon I decided to look closely at the buffers. I thought they were plastic and considered drilling out the bases to use the Markits heads. Looking at the back of the headstock I thought I could see a round shank. So nothing ventured, nothing gained, tried moving one, after much slight twisting, turning etc out it came. Quite hard going but they are metal castings..... I know they had buffers and their will be a proper distance between them, but were talking trainset curves here and I do like coaches in a set to look like a set and not individual coaches. The coaches can be moved quite close until the vacuum pipes almost touch. I took the Hornby/Roco type couplers from a Maunsell coach. One clipped into the NEM pocket, the other would not go in. Being Mr Impatient I clipped the NEM legs and got it in the pocket. The hugh gap was terrible. No pictures of that. I will try various NEM joiners I have, of will fabricate one to hold the distance as in the picture above. Then test run on some tight curves This is how I'd like them to look... Saving the Markits buffers for another job.... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 I'm sure a no17 kadee would fill that gap nicely, especially with no buffers to worry about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I'm sure a no17 kadee would fill that gap nicely, especially with no buffers to worry about. What is the distance between the nem boxes with 2 17s together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 What is the distance between the nem boxes with 2 17s together. Unfortunately I'm not sure because I don't have any of these lovely coaches to measure with but I can tell you the 17 is the shortest coupler Kadee offer, the distance from the end of the NEM box to the front of the knuckle is 7.11mm https://kadee.com/htmbord/page17.htm I have one spare pair kicking around, it's unlikely i'll use them for anything else, so If you PM me your address i'm happy to send them to you free of charge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelixM Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just found this picture of a Birdcage set on flickr and thought it is worth sharing.surrey - southern 1190 betchworth 20-8-1932 by John Law, on Flickr 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted November 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just found this picture of a Birdcage set on flickr and thought it is worth sharing. surrey - southern 1190 betchworth 20-8-1932 by John Law, on Flickr Is the leading vehicle a horse box by any chance? Interesting none the less. Cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just found this picture of a Birdcage set on flickr and thought it is worth sharing.surrey - southern 1190 betchworth 20-8-1932 by John Law, on Flickr Where I was born - but 16 years later! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Where I was born - but 16 years later! So you're 101 years old???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) For anyone who hasn't got a pair to try out, Roco 40271 heads (like the Hornby ones but significantly shorter) give a coupled distance that leaves the buffers almost touching with the coaches at rest on straight track. By coupling the adjacent links rigidly (which Kadees don't) the operation of the CCUs is optimised and the set is quite happy on 2nd radius curves. On the van ends, I have used #18 Kadees. John Edited November 13, 2017 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2017 For anyone who hasn't got a pair to try out, Roco 40271 heads (like the Hornby ones but significantly shorter) give a coupled distance that leaves just over 1mm between buffer heads. By coupling the adjacent links rigidly (which Kadees don't) the operation of the CCUs is optimised and the set is quite happy on 2nd radius curves. On the van ends, I have used #18 Kadees. John I had tried the Hornby equivalent and found them hopelessly long, and Kadee 18s are by no means too cosy, either, so I will give these a try. It may well lead me to try them on my many Hornby Maunsells, liberating a lot of 18s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) I had tried the Hornby equivalent and found them hopelessly long, and Kadee 18s are by no means too cosy, either, so I will give these a try. It may well lead me to try them on my many Hornby Maunsells, liberating a lot of 18s. You won't be disappointed, the Roco heads work superbly on Hornby Maunsells, though only with the gangway covers removed. See also my thread on modifying the Roco and Hornby couplers to improve appearance. Although I haven't (yet) tried it, I understand it is possible to shorten the Hornby ones, which would offer a useful economy. However, they cease to be a clip-fit in the pocket if so altered and need to be glued in. . John EDIT: Just to avoid confusion, Roco 40271 is a packet of 50, the more usual reference is 40270, which (I think) is two pairs. Edited November 13, 2017 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 So you're 101 years old???? .......... and born in a horse box to boot ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Is the leading vehicle a horse box by any chance? Interesting none the less. Cheers It looks like a 21' LSWR horsebox. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Continuing the closer coupling saga, I shortened a couple of the tension lock couplers to create a test coupling... As previously mentioned the Roco and any solid drawbars allows the swinging NEM pocket to operate in its correct close coupling mode. I was trying to get the vacuum pipes almost touching. What I did notice was that one tension lock was a bu99er to get back in its pocket. Tried swapping couplers, but one pocket was a pain. I then had a brainwave to try the drawbar as fitted to the Hornby 2 HAL and 2 BIL units. Even with the Hornby drawbar one pocket didn't want to play ball. I could not see what was wrong with the pocket. If it had been warmer I would have removed the bogie and CC unit to look inside. Instead I eased the prongs and increased the length of the slot between the prongs until it fitted OK. Doesn't look too bad, but could be shortened a bit. As it is it might even do between the fixed buffers... I'll try it between the Brake ends that still have the cast buffers fitted later. If you want to remove the buffers, just wrap with some thick paper as protection, gently grasp the flat top and bottom of the buffer face with pliers and very gently rotate a very small amount to and fro. The buffers will loosen and come out without damage.. So tonight I will try between ends fitted with buffers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Continuing the closer coupling saga, I shortened a couple of the tension lock couplers to create a test coupling... halw.jpg As previously mentioned the Roco and any solid drawbars allows the swinging NEM pocket to operate in its correct close coupling mode. I was trying to get the vacuum pipes almost touching. What I did notice was that one tension lock was a bu99er to get back in its pocket. Tried swapping couplers, but one pocket was a pain. I then had a brainwave to try the drawbar as fitted to the Hornby 2 HAL and 2 BIL units. Even with the Hornby drawbar one pocket didn't want to play ball. I could not see what was wrong with the pocket. If it had been warmer I would have removed the bogie and CC unit to look inside. Instead I eased the prongs and increased the length of the slot between the prongs until it fitted OK. Doesn't look too bad, but could be shortened a bit. As it is it might even do between the fixed buffers... hal 01.jpg hal 02.jpg hal 03.jpg I'll try it between the Brake ends that still have the cast buffers fitted later. If you want to remove the buffers, just wrap with some thick paper as protection, gently grasp the flat top and bottom of the buffer face with pliers and very gently rotate a very small amount to and fro. The buffers will loosen and come out without damage.. So tonight I will try between ends fitted with buffers I shortened my 2HAL coupler bars by razor-sawing the round section lengthways at a very shallow angle top and bottom then super-gluing the resultant scarf joint at the required length. ( A straight cut and re-join wouldn't have much strength ! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I shortened my 2HAL coupler bars by razor-sawing the round section lengthways at a very shallow angle top and bottom then super-gluing the resultant scarf joint at the required length. ( A straight cut and re-join wouldn't have much strength ! ) Just a thought, but with that joint (good idea, BTW), if you had any doubts about its strength, you could drill straight down through it (#75 or 76, perhaps) and glue a very short length of brass handrail wire through it as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Just a thought, but with that joint (good idea, BTW), if you had any doubts about its strength, you could drill straight down through it (#75 or 76, perhaps) and glue a very short length of brass handrail wire through it as well. I did consider that - or a bit of plastic rod - or, perhaps, the threaded end of a 12BA or 14BA bolt that had been shortened for some other purpose .............. but decided I didn't really want to reduce the amount of plastic remaining ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2017 You won't be disappointed, the Roco heads work superbly on Hornby Maunsells, though only with the gangway covers removed. . John EDIT: Just to avoid confusion, Roco 40271 is a packet of 50, the more usual reference is 40270, which (I think) is two pairs. I bought the 50, and they do as you say. So my birdcages now sit even closer than Kadee 18s permitted, and a pair of Maunsell rebuilds do likewise. I would have installed more if it hadn’t been so chilly out there. I foresee a glut of used Kadee 18s as the Rocos spread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted November 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2017 I bought the 50, and they do as you say. So my birdcages now sit even closer than Kadee 18s permitted, and a pair of Maunsell rebuilds do likewise. I would have installed more if it hadn’t been so chilly out there. I foresee a glut of used Kadee 18s as the Rocos spread. Don't forget the Roco offering will also mate with the Hornby version - I found this useful on the Hornby Stanier and Hawksworth coaches where two Rocos were too short but two Hornby versions were too long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) Don't forget the Roco offering will also mate with the Hornby version - I found this useful on the Hornby Stanier and Hawksworth coaches where two Rocos were too short but two Hornby versions were too long. The same trick also helps on the non-corridor Staniers and (IIRC, it was a long time ago) a set of Gresley corridors I did for a late friend. John Edited November 18, 2017 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Limpley Stoker Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) I have been experimenting by inserting the Roco couplings upside down- they seem to function without fouling the corridor connections on my Hornby Hawksworth and Collett stock and look a lot less ugly on side view. I don’t need to use the uncoupling loops so they won’t be missed. It should work on the Bachmann stock just as well. PS I have just found that the body of the coupling fouls the buffer beam of Bachmann Mk1s though. Edited November 19, 2017 by Limpley Stoker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I was informed yesterday from Scoonie Hobbies that the rep has advised them that 2 of the 3 olive coaches have arrived (also the LNER D11) in the UK so should be starting to hit the shops soon. Its been a good month for SR modeller's, I have to collect my Kernow gate Stock from the post office on Monday and hopefully the next run of cattle wagons from Hornby will arrive next month along with the H class in Olive. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Its been an expensive good month for SR modeller's Corrected Not that i'm complaining! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) I have been experimenting by inserting the Roco couplings upside down- they seem to function without fouling the corridor connections on my Hornby Hawksworth and Collett stock and look a lot less ugly on side view. I don’t need to use the uncoupling loops so they won’t be missed. It should work on the Bachmann stock just as well. PS I have just found that the body of the coupling fouls the buffer beam of Bachmann Mk1s though. Aha! The dreaded BR Mk1 fishbelly buffer beam! If you want Bachmann Mk1s to match other stock, the Keen Systems replacement links (for the original type of Bachmann CCUs) lower the pocket into NEM compliance and thereby create about a fag-paper's worth of clearance for inverted Rocos. John EDIT: Before we get our knuckles rapped for thread drift, might I suggest using my "Useful modification for Roco and Hornby couplers" thread to further pursue this topic? Edited November 20, 2017 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now