Peppercorn Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I know they had their drawbacks, nevertheless they were/are useful, but Skinley and the rawings seem to hve disappered. Anyone know where? Cliff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) Yes I had cause to try to find some the other day, they reside with Phil Brice, they are no longer available, I attach a copy of his e-mail below:- Skinley Drawings – the current position. Hello Peter, & thank you for the inquiry. We have stopped printing & supplying Skinley Drawings as of April 2013. The Master Drawings are in safe storage – no decision having been made as to the future. Regards, Phil Brice. Edited August 6, 2014 by peter220950 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppercorn Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 Thanks, Peter. Shame that there aren't plans to do anything other than keep them in safe storage (for the present. Cliff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Another one lost forever, then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppercorn Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Looks like it, Horsetan. You'd think we'd have all our drawing needs covered by Isinglass and PDH (although I have seen comments questioning the veracity of the latter) but, sod's law dictates that the actual drawing wanted is from a range not on offer. C'est la vie. There's always OPC/NRM I suppose...I'll check and report back Cliff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I don't understand why these are in "safe storage" and not out for sale. With items like Sharman Wheels, there are severe problems with moulds, methods of manufacture etc. which is why they're not generally available, but surely there are no such issues with drawings, so why not get them out in the market place? If it came to it, I feel certain that it would be possible to get a professional scanning company to digitise the drawings and if done correctly, they could then easily be re-scaled to whichever scale the purchaser wanted, which would open a far larger customer base. Seems strange to me :-( Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppercorn Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 I agree with you PGC, however, not all the Skinleys are drawings: some are blueprints that may not reproduce properly using today's normal methods of photocopying, etc. I'm not sure how one reproduces blueprints, but this may have been using the old fashioned print machines - remember those complete with ammonia fumes? Happy days... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sej Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Hi, I received the same email some while back after an enquiry. When I asked whether the archive might be up for sale there was no further reply. It is a pity as I really like their drawings, they have a certain whiff of nostalgia about them and I always try to use them if I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 A note of caution some of the Skinley drawings are so inaccurate they are unusable, so be very wary. A number of the Jidenco kits were based on these drawings and contributed to making the kits not worth building. As an example the drawing of the LNWR 0-8-2 tank has the following errors: It is shown with piston valves covers, but they were only ever fitted with slide valves. The cab front and cab rear profiles are so wrong it's untrue, it seems that Skinley assumed the cab profile was changed from the LNWR profile to the revised LMS profile which never happened as the locos remained on the ex LNWR lines. The problem with Skinley prints is that no references are given as to what the sources for the drawings are, it seems that some were based on photographs rather than official or works drawings. I used to use these many years ago but once I realised that they cannot be relied on I don't use them. Official weight diagrams can least give wheelbases. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 A note of caution some of the Skinley drawings are so inaccurate they are unusable, so be very wary. A number of the Jidenco kits were based on these drawings and contributed to making the kits not worth building. As an example the drawing of the LNWR 0-8-2 tank has the following errors: It is shown with piston valves covers, but they were only ever fitted with slide valves. The cab front and cab rear profiles are so wrong it's untrue, it seems that Skinley assumed the cab profile was changed from the LNWR profile to the revised LMS profile which never happened as the locos remained on the ex LNWR lines. The problem with Skinley prints is that no references are given as to what the sources for the drawings are, it seems that some were based on photographs rather than official or works drawings. I used to use these many years ago but once I realised that they cannot be relied on I don't use them. Official weight diagrams can least give wheelbases. David Which could explain why the Jidenco kit for the LNWR 0-8-2T had an inaccurate cab roof profile. Just one of the reasons I gave up on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted August 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2014 Many years ago when Kings Cross models was a going concern I visited there on several occasions. On one occasion I asked for a Skinley drawing, I don't remember which, when a gent behind butted in with the scornful remark "Skinley drawings? You' d be better off with basic dimensions and a good photograph"! I know now that what he said was in part true. I have a number of NER drawings from that source and there are glaring errors in some of them. But in those far off times that was all that there was apart from those published in the model press and some of those were just as dubious. ArhurK 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 The problem with Skinley prints is that no references are given as to what the sources for the drawings are Sadly that's pretty much true of most published drawings. Quoting your sources and stating assumptions seems to be a bit lacking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted August 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2014 I don't understand why these are in "safe storage" and not out for sale. With items like Sharman Wheels, there are severe problems with moulds, methods of manufacture etc. which is why they're not generally available, but surely there are no such issues with drawings, so why not get them out in the market place? If it came to it, I feel certain that it would be possible to get a professional scanning company to digitise the drawings and if done correctly, they could then easily be re-scaled to whichever scale the purchaser wanted, which would open a far larger customer base. Seems strange to me :-( Phil I think that question has been answered. If as inaccurate as some have stated later, whose going to spend the money to get them properly scanned? I think Horsetan is right - gone for good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't understand why these are in "safe storage" and not out for sale. Doh, if sales don't justify a production run then there is no point in producing any more products. Contrary to what many modeller seem to believe, manufacturers aren't charities, and while they may not expect to make a fortune at this game, they do expect to at least cover their costs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'm also wondering if there's a problem with getting Dyeline drawings printed. The machines are nowhere near as common as they used to be, given that most Engineer and Architects use CAD rather than tracing paper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Doh, if sales don't justify a production run then there is no point in producing any more products. Contrary to what many modeller seem to believe, manufacturers aren't charities, and while they may not expect to make a fortune at this game, they do expect to at least cover their costs. If you're talking sales of products such as etched kits, I agree. I would have thought, with your skills and knowledge, Bill, that even you could tell the difference between the production or an etched kit and the reproduction of a drawing. Reproduction of drawings (or even Blue prints when copied using correct equipment) is a lot easier than production of an etched kit and can be produced just as one off's. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'm also wondering if there's a problem with getting Dyeline drawings printed. The machines are nowhere near as common as they used to be, given that most Engineer and Architects use CAD rather than tracing paper. I would have thought they'd be easily scanned by copy bureaus such as Prontaprint, and I suspect they could then be imported into a good CAD/CAM package ready for digital manipulation, although never having used a high end CAD/CAM package I don't know the last bit for certain. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 If you're talking sales of products such as etched kits, I agree. I would have thought, with your skills and knowledge, Bill, that even you could tell the difference between the production or an etched kit and the reproduction of a drawing. Reproduction of drawings (or even Blue prints when copied using correct equipment) is a lot easier than production of an etched kit and can be produced just as one off's. The laws of supply and demand apply to all products, including photocopied drawings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_gauge_novice Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hi to all, just scroll down to the end of the page. There are some drawings available through metalsmith. http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/Gauge0_kits_and_RTR.htm I don't have a clue about these drawings since its not my prototype but I just saw it... Cheers Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 All the diagrams that Skinley drawings are based on are available from the NRM as scans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I always worked from Works drawings when available, places like NRM, Glasgow Museum, HMRS and the specialist societies always provide a good service. Even with works drawings you have to be careful as these can differ from the built loco. I used to visit the old Ashford works and got talking one day to an old boy who worked with steam in the fitting shops, he stated that "what the drawings show would be used as a guide" as some times the loco couldn't be built as drawn!! I do have one Skinley drawing that is framed and hangs on the wall above my work bench, and is a reminder never to use modeller type drawings when model making, a lot of time was wasted on a model. I use a local print shop that does PDFs for between £5 and £10, these are very useful as can be viewed on the screen and increased in size. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I don't understand why these are in "safe storage" and not out for sale. Possibly because, bearing in mind the comments above, they are regarded as on a par with nuclear waste? I bought a small number of Skinleys during the era when they were available from P.T. Moore in Kent, of which the USATC S160 was one - it's still the only 4mm drawing of the S160 that was available. Even then I was never quite sure if the boiler taper shown on the Skinley was mostly on the "top line" or underneath..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbles Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Times move on! I believe that the late Frank Dyer used Skinley drawings for some of his models; but he live in a different age. I remember one year at the New Horticultural Halls in the 1980s W&H were selling off the old uninsulated Romfords at silly prices. Mr Dyer purchase some and I believe after insulating, by cutting spokes and epoxying the gaps, used them under his B1. I'm fairly sure that this model appeared on his layout the following year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_grandpops Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 The HMRS are now the custodians of the Skinley drawing collection. If anybody requires a copy then contact the drawing-archivist@hmrs.co.uk and he will endeavor to help you. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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