Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[St Enodoc]

Yeah, you lot keep talking about your pensions, whilst the rest of us youngsters keep earning to pay them...

And long may that continue young sir.

[St Enodoc]

The Paddington point control panel is now finished and installed.

 

I made the labels using the same printer that I use for making wire tags, but with a smaller typeface so that I could trim the width of the tape to fit between the blue stripes. Track 0 is the Tregissey railbus siding, and tracks 1 to 12 are the double-ended loops.

 

I have had the totem for donkey’s years (you can just see a similar Penzance one on the reverse loop of the loft layout on page 1 of this topic) and I was a bit worried that the adhesive might have gone off and it wouldn’t stick. Fortunately it hadn't so it did, if you get my drift. I’ve got another for the Penzance panel when it gets built too.

 

On the bottom right is the conduit that conceals the cab bus cable…

 

…which comes up from underneath the baseboard and plugs into the Mini Panel – and that’s it for wiring. Good old Fixit blocks hold the panel in place and although you can’t see it from this photo there is about 5 mm clearance between the top of a train and the bottom of the front panel when it is open.

 

This is what it all looks like in relation to the layout. The buttons are very easy to reach across the narrow baseboard.

 

The cab bus cable heads anti-clockwise under the baseboards and ends at a UTP about level with where the SMP and Peco track join. Until the 40’ cable arrives that is as far as it can go and the panel sits in splendid isolation, so still no proper train playing for the time being.

 

More points are next on the agenda, for Paddington loops 4 to 6. Then I will move on to Penzance and do the same, which will be enough for some basic sequence operation using the main lines only. After that – decision time. I will either develop Porthmellyn Road station or lay the remaining storage loops. If I do the latter I will have to decommission St Enodoc so that I can recycle the points from the fiddle yard there. We shall see.

Edited July 22, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[St Enodoc]

A longish post today, to show how I make points. I’m not claiming that it is either the best way or the only way, but it is the way I've done it for over 30 years, which works and is easy.

 

I find that making points is quite relaxing except for filing switch blades and crossings. Fortunately I have a number of 1:8 crossings and Type B switches ready made that I have picked up from eBay in job lots over the years. I tend not to buy them new from C&L due to the price. For other configurations (mostly A5) I file my own, following the instructions in the old Scalefour Digest from when I was a member in the early 1980s.

 

For the standard fans I need a lot of B8 curved points with outer radius 48” and inner radius 30”. I made templates for these by marking the centre lines on a standard C&L B8 template then slicing it up between each timber. I then reassembled the templates with the centrelines curved to the radius required.

 

As this will be an off-stage point I have left out a lot of timbers. Only those marked with a yellow highlighter are used.

 

The three transverse lines show where the ends of the blades go (timber 3 is actually the tiebar), where the point of the crossing goes, and where the divergence between the tracks reaches standard double-track spacing.

 

You need to fit timbers 1, 2 and 4 to give some stability at the toe; timber 13 to anchor the closure rails before the flexible section; 27 and 28 which are either side of the isolating gap between the closure rails and the wing rails; and 30 to 34 to support the crossing, wing rails and check rails. The other timbers are just spaced more-or-less equally in between.

 

The timbers are cut from copperclad strips using ordinary side-cutters. An off-stage point uses about two-and-a-half 12” strips – an on-stage point, with all the timbers fitted, takes about one-and-a-half more, so an on-stage B8 point needs about four strips. An A5 only uses three.

 

I stick the timbers to the template using Pritt Stick or similar, which is water-soluble so when the point is finished it can be cleaned up easily.

 

Before fixing the stock rails, I put a very slight joggle in them using flat-nosed pliers to give a small recess for the switch blades to fit into. Don’t make the joggle too deep or sharp. Once made it should be barely visible (to my old eyes anyway). I mark the head of the rail using a felt-tip pen to make sure I get it the right way up and bend the two joggles in opposite directions.

 

The straight, or in this case larger radius, stock rail goes in first. I solder the rail to timbers 1 and 2 first and then work my way along the rail, using the Tracksetta to hold it in place. My soldering iron is an Antex 25W with a flat chisel tip. Holding this at about 45 degrees to the rail/timber interface gives good and quick results. The solder is ordinary 60/40 and I am just coming to the end of a tin of Fluxite that I bought from a hardware shop in Brighton (Hove, actually) in about 1984. The price was GBP 0.67. Happy days.

 

Now comes the crossing. I transfer the line from the template to the top of timber 31 and place the crossing in position, holding it down with two roller gauges of which one is a the point of the crossing itself (timber 31). The first timber to be soldered is 34 as I can get the tip of the iron right down in between the rails. Next, I hold down the crossing with an old file and remove the roller gauge from timber 31. Without letting the rails move, I solder the crossing tip in place with a very thin smear of solder. I put the roller gauge back at the tip and solder the remaining timbers to the rails – 32 again with a smear and 33 by putting plenty of flux and a small piece of solder in the gap then heating the whole lot up until it flows.

 

The inner stock rail is next. I start at the toe again using the roller gauges to set the rail in position, but instead of working along the rail I go to the crossing end next and solder that in place. Once that’s done, I join the dots so to speak with the Tracksetta again holding the rail to a smooth curve.

 

Setting the wing rails probably takes the longest of any of the stages, more so even than the crossing, as it is usually necessary to adjust the knuckle angle and the wing rail gap iteratively to get them in the right position.

 

It doesn’t really matter which one you start with. I start with the more curved of the two. The rail is cut overlength at first so that it can be set up from the inner stock rail using two roller gauges. I check that the angle is correct, adjusting if necessary with the pliers, and then set the gap to the crossing using the little aluminium gauge that comes with SMP point kits. This is 1.15 mm thick, and standing it on edge in the gap while the roller gauges are in place will get the knuckle in the right position. If this has gone right then the knuckle will sit in the middle of timber 30. I check and check again, using the Mark 1 eyeball, before soldering the knuckle in place and then soldering the rest of the rail, using the aluminium gauge and the roller gauges as appropriate.

 

Finally I trim back the wing rail between timbers 27 and 28 so that there will be an isolating gap when the closure rails are fitted. I use Xuron cutters for all rail cutting.

 

I clamp the combined switch and closure rail to the stock rail with a small bulldog clip and then trim the other end to match the wing rail. The first timber to be soldered is 13, with the rails still clamped and one roller gauge either side of the timber. I work my way along to the wing rail and for the last joint I bridge the gap between the two rails with a roller gauge to keep them in line.

 

The last pieces of rail to go in are the check rails. Now, my roller gauges, unlike some, don’t have a machined flat to allow them to sit between a stock rail and the crossing. To get round this I have another little tool, which is a short length of rail soldered longitudinally to a copperclad timber. This lets me set the check rail off the stock rail while keeping the roller gauge level, giving a gap of 1.5 mm.

 

Once all these rails are in, I push a wagon through the crossing in both directions on both roads, holding it hard over towards the crossing to make sure it doesn’t take the wrong road. If necessary (although it rarely is) the rails can be adjusted using the soldering iron.

 

I deliberately chose to make the wing rail gap smaller than the check rail gap to minimise the unsupported length when a wheel passes through the crossing. The chosen dimensions give a distance across the check and wing rails of 13.85 mm nominal and between the check rail and crossing of 15.00 mm nominal. This means that wheelsets with a back to back between about 14.0 mm and 14.7 mm will run though the point quite happily, although I aim for 14.5 mm whenever possible.

 

The last job on the bench is to fit the tiebar. This is another piece of copperclad timbering, cut overlength at this stage. I place a small piece of baking paper between the blade, the stock rail and the tiebar on one side. While holding the tiebar firmly with one hand and pressing the blade against the stock rail with the other, I use my third hand to solder the blade to the tiebar. For the other side, I wedge open the blade on the other side with two small pieces of copperclad, giving a gap of 2.4 mm, before repeating the soldering operation. I usually need to do some fine adjustment to make sure the blades both fit up properly.

 

I draw-file over the running surfaces and then strip the template off the new point, after which I clean it up with hot water, Jif (yes, it’s still called that down here) and an old toothbrush.

 

Gapping the copperclad and fitting the operating loop will be done in the workshop, in the first case because it is a bit messy using the mini drill and cutting disc and in the second case because I need to match the position of the loop with that of the point motor in situ.

 

Overall, starting with a pre-made crossing and blades, I can usually get through all the above in about an hour and a half. If I have to file my own crossing and blades that adds about another hour per point, although when I get the urge I make a few of each at a time before the mood departs.

Edited July 22, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Joseph_Pestell]

A longish post today, to show how I make points. I’m not claiming that it is either the best way or the only way, but it is the way I've done it for over 30 years, which works and is easy.

 

I find that making points is quite relaxing except for filing switch blades and crossings. Fortunately I have a number of 1:8 crossings and Type B switches ready made that I have picked up from eBay in job lots over the years. I tend not to buy them new from C&L due to the price. For other configurations (mostly A5) I file my own, following the instructions in the old Scalefour Digest from when I was a member in the early 1980s.

 

20160527 001 B8RC template.JPG

For the standard fans I need a lot of B8 curved points with outer radius 48” and inner radius 30”. I made templates for these by marking the centre lines on a standard C&L B8 template then slicing it up between each timber. I then reassembled the templates with the centrelines curved to the radius required.

 

As this will be an off-stage point I have left out a lot of timbers. Only those marked with a yellow highlighter are used.

 

The three transverse lines show where the ends of the blades go (timber 3 is actually the tiebar), where the point of the crossing goes, and where the divergence between the tracks reaches standard double-track spacing.

 

You need to fit timbers 1, 2 and 4 to give some stability at the toe; timber 13 to anchor the closure rails before the flexible section; 27 and 28 which are either side of the isolating gap between the closure rails and the wing rails; and 30 to 34 to support the crossing, wing rails and check rails. The other timbers are just spaced more-or-less equally in between.

 

20160527 002 B8RC off-stage timbers.JPG

The timbers are cut from copperclad strips using ordinary side-cutters. An off-stage point uses about two-and-a-half 12” strips – an on-stage point, with all the timbers fitted, takes about one-and-a-half more, so an on-stage B8 point needs about four strips. An A5 only uses three.

 

I stick the timbers to the template using Pritt Stick or similar, which is water-soluble so when the point is finished it can be cleaned up easily.

 

20160528 001 B8RC outer stock rail.JPG

Before fixing the stock rails, I put a very slight joggle in them using flat-nosed pliers to give a small recess for the switch blades to fit into. Don’t make the joggle too deep or sharp. Once made it should be barely visible (to my old eyes anyway). I mark the head of the rail using a felt-tip pen to make sure I get it the right way up and bend the two joggles in opposite directions.

 

The straight, or in this case larger radius, stock rail goes in first. I solder the rail to timbers 1 and 2 first and then work my way along the rail, using the Tracksetta to hold it in place. My soldering iron is an Antex 25W with a flat chisel tip. Holding this at about 45 degrees to the rail/timber interface gives good and quick results. The solder is ordinary 60/40 and I am just coming to the end of a tin of Fluxite that I bought from a hardware shop in Brighton (Hove, actually) in about 1984. The price was GBP 0.67. Happy days.

 

20160528 002 B8RC crossing.JPG

Now comes the crossing. I transfer the line from the template to the top of timber 31 and place the crossing in position, holding it down with two roller gauges of which one is a the point of the crossing itself (timber 31). The first timber to be soldered is 34 as I can get the tip of the iron right down in between the rails. Next, I hold down the crossing with an old file and remove the roller gauge from timber 31. Without letting the rails move, I solder the crossing tip in place with a very thin smear of solder. I put the roller gauge back at the tip and solder the remaining timbers to the rails – 32 again with a smear and 33 by putting plenty of flux and a small piece of solder in the gap then heating the whole lot up until it flows.

 

20160528 003 B8RC inner stock rail.JPG

The inner stock rail is next. I start at the toe again using the roller gauges to set the rail in position, but instead of working along the rail I go to the crossing end next and solder that in place. Once that’s done, I join the dots so to speak with the Tracksetta again holding the rail to a smooth curve.

 

20160528 004 B8RC wing rails.JPG

Setting the wing rails probably takes the longest of any of the stages, more so even than the crossing, as it is usually necessary to adjust the knuckle angle and the wing rail gap iteratively to get them in the right position.

 

It doesn’t really matter which one you start with. I start with the more curved of the two. The rail is cut overlength at first so that it can be set up from the inner stock rail using two roller gauges. I check that the angle is correct, adjusting if necessary with the pliers, and then set the gap to the crossing using the little aluminium gauge that comes with SMP point kits. This is 1.15 mm thick, and standing it on edge in the gap while the roller gauges are in place will get the knuckle in the right position. If this has gone right then the knuckle will sit in the middle of timber 30. I check and check again, using the Mark 1 eyeball, before soldering the knuckle in place and then soldering the rest of the rail, using the aluminium gauge and the roller gauges as appropriate.

 

Finally I trim back the wing rail between timbers 27 and 28 so that there will be an isolating gap when the closure rails are fitted. I use Xuron cutters for all rail cutting.

 

20160528 005 B8RC combined switch blades and closure rails.JPG

I clamp the combined switch and closure rail to the stock rail with a small bulldog clip and then trim the other end to match the wing rail. The first timber to be soldered is 13, with the rails still clamped and one roller gauge either side of the timber. I work my way along to the wing rail and for the last joint I bridge the gap between the two rails with a roller gauge to keep them in line.

 

20160528 006 B8RC check rails.JPG

The last pieces of rail to go in are the check rails. Now, my roller gauges, unlike some, don’t have a machined flat to allow them to sit between a stock rail and the crossing. To get round this I have another little tool, which is a short length of rail soldered longitudinally to a copperclad timber. This lets me set the check rail off the stock rail while keeping the roller gauge level, giving a gap of 1.5 mm.

 

Once all these rails are in, I push a wagon through the crossing in both directions on both roads, holding it hard over towards the crossing to make sure it doesn’t take the wrong road. If necessary (although it rarely is) the rails can be adjusted using the soldering iron.

 

I deliberately chose to make the wing rail gap smaller than the check rail gap to minimise the unsupported length when a wheel passes through the crossing. The chosen dimensions give a distance across the check and wing rails of 13.85 mm nominal and between the check rail and crossing of 15.00 mm nominal. This means that wheelsets with a back to back between about 14.0 mm and 14.7 mm will run though the point quite happily, although I aim for 14.5 mm whenever possible.

 

20160528 007 B8RC tiebar.JPG

The last job on the bench is to fit the tiebar. This is another piece of copperclad timbering, cut overlength at this stage. I place a small piece of baking paper between the blade, the stock rail and the tiebar on one side. While holding the tiebar firmly with one hand and pressing the blade against the stock rail with the other, I use my third hand to solder the blade to the tiebar. For the other side, I wedge open the blade on the other side with two small pieces of copperclad, giving a gap of 2.4 mm, before repeating the soldering operation. I usually need to do some fine adjustment to make sure the blades both fit up properly.

 

I draw-file over the running surfaces and then strip the template off the new point, after which I clean it up with hot water, Jif (yes, it’s still called that down here) and an old toothbrush.

 

20160528 008 B8RC ready for gapping and operating loop.JPG

Gapping the copperclad and fitting the operating loop will be done in the workshop, in the first case because it is a bit messy using the mini drill and cutting disc and in the second case because I need to match the position of the loop with that of the point motor in situ.

 

Overall, starting with a pre-made crossing and blades, I can usually get through all the above in about an hour and a half. If I have to file my own crossing and blades that adds about another hour per point, although when I get the urge I make a few of each at a time before the mood departs.

 

That's a really useful guide to pointbuilding with copperclad. Perhaps you should copy it to one of the pointbuilding threads?

[St Enodoc]

That's a really useful guide to pointbuilding with copperclad. Perhaps you should copy it to one of the pointbuilding threads?

Thanks Joseph. I'll have a browse and see where it might fit best.

 

Edit - this seems to be a suitable spot - any comments before I dive in?

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/2178-copperclad-turnout-construction/?hl=copperclad

Edited May 28, 2016 by St Enodoc

[Andrew P]

Great work on the points, I built a batch for my Bitton Project and there still in the draw, I really MUST build a Layout AROUND THEM there so much better than ready to plonk.

[St Enodoc]

Great work on the points, I built a batch for my Bitton Project and there still in the draw, I really MUST build a Layout AROUND THEM there so much better than ready to plonk.

Can't click Thanks and Agree at the same time so this is to say that I agree regarding hand-built points, which is why I haven't bought a ready to plonk one for over 35 years!

[brianusa]

St E.  Your wiring is to be admired and in my case, envied!  Glad you can't see beneath my layout!!

 

Brian

Edited May 28, 2016 by brianusa

[St Enodoc]

St E.  Your wiring is to be admired and in my case, envied!  Glad you can't see beneath my layout!!

 

Brian

Thanks Brian. I do try to keep it organised if not tidy. In the station areas with signals and uncouplers as well as track and points it becomes more important.

[St Enodoc]

Three more points made this week, so I've now got all I need for Paddington loops 4, 5 and 6. I won't get much done on Saturday as there's a monthly BRMA meeting to go to after rugby, but Sunday should see them all laid in place although there's unlikely to be enough time to wire or motorise them.

[St Enodoc]

Everything you need to build 00 gauge B8 curved copperclad points. Clockwise from top left:

 

- baking paper to stop you soldering the blades, tiebar and stock rails up solid

- two small pieces of copperclad to set the blade gap

- test wagon

- piece of rail soldered to copperclad to support the roller gauges when soldering check rails

- Xuron rail cutters

- two roller gauges

- SMP aluminium wing rail gauge

- non-serrated pliers

- Fluxite with cocktail stick to apply it

- solder

- old file to hold rails in place without burning your fingers

- side cutters

- 48" and 30" Tracksettas

- nail buffer to polish rail heads and remove felt tip markings

- small Bulldog clip

- scriber

- soldering iron in stand with tip cleaner

 

That's it - apart of course from a template, some rail and some copperclad.

Edited July 22, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[St Enodoc]

Back to tracklaying today, with three points laid at Paddington Up end. I have two more ready for the Down end but they will get laid another time.

 

The first to go in was the king point for Paddington loops 7 - 12, which is a simple A5 RH. These loops won't get laid for some time, but as this point leads directly off the Down Main in front of the roller door I wanted to lay it so that I can erect the derailment containment fence along the back edge of Penzance.

 

The Down Main where this point (point 101) goes is located directly above the L-girder, so I spent a bit of time working out the best position for the point motor and then soldering the point operating loop to the tiebar. Once that was done, I cut out the section of plain track that the point replaces. This meant disconnecting two droppers, which in due course will be connected to the point instead. After the point was in I wedged the switches for the straight road using a drawing pin and attached a temporary frog jumper. You can just see all this in the top left of the photo.

 

Next were the two B8 RH curved points leading to the Up ends of Paddington loops 4 to 6 (points 107 and 110). Once the timbers and tiebar were trimmed back so that they didn't foul the adjacent track, these went in fairly quickly. They are the two points leading nowhere on the right hand side of the photo.

 

While the adhesive was drying I connected the Paddington point control panel to the SB5. The NCE 40' cab bus cable still hasn't arrived at my local model shop, which is annoying, but at yesterday's BRMA meeting, hosted by RudderC of this parish, RodneyV (also of this parish) reminded me that he had loaned me a long cab bus cable. I had forgotten about that, so I had a good look round in the garage today and found a long beige-coloured 4-conductor RJ12 cable. Despite not having the blue and white conductors, when I tried it out it worked so I connected it up. So, instead of laying the two Paddington Down end points I had a little testing session play, running trains out of and into Paddington loops 1 to 3 using the panel to change the points. Very enjoyable.

 

Next weekend (the Queen's Birthday long weekend) we are busy with other things but the following weekend should see the other two points laid and all five motorised and connected. One further weekend should get the plain track laid to join them all up so I will be able to get more trains out of their boxes - yippee!

Edited July 22, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Barry O]

whats all this about the Long "Queens Birthday" weekend... no such luck here in the UK!

[brianusa]

whats all this about the Long "Queens Birthday" weekend... no such luck here in the UK!

 

Nor over here!

 

Brian.

[M.I.B]

Weekends don't exist here.........

[Joseph_Pestell]

whats all this about the Long "Queens Birthday" weekend... no such luck here in the UK!

 

Not so many republicans here to be appeased.

[The Fatadder]

Having been inspired by your baseboard construction technique, I have a quick question.

How are you fixing the battons supporting the plywood to the baseboard structure?

 

I have an order of plywood for the boards along with the fixit blocks coming on Thursday, and want to check what else I will need

 

Thanks

Rich

[St Enodoc]

On 12/06/2016 at 23:49, The Fatadder said:

Having been inspired by your baseboard construction technique, I have a quick question.

How are you fixing the battons supporting the plywood to the baseboard structure?

 

I have an order of plywood for the boards along with the fixit blocks coming on Thursday, and want to check what else I will need

 

Thanks

Rich

Thanks Rich. It's a pretty standard L-girder system.

 

Somewhere on an earlier page i described this but rather than have to search for it, here are the essentials again.

 

The 42 x 19 (2 x 1 in old money) joists are screwed to the L-girders from below. The joists are then screwed to the plywood tops again from below, using the Fixit blocks. Any superelevation is created by placing small strips of Evergreen styrene between the joist and the plywood where needed.

 

Here are a couple of photos:

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

Edited July 22, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[The Fatadder]

Perfect thanks,

Now to get it built!

[St Enodoc]

I clocked up three score years today (with, I hope, at least my allotted ten more still to come). I took today and tomorrow off, as I hope - and expect - to be "unfit to take duty" in the morning. Before going into the city for a very good lunch with Veronica, I used my time productively by renumbering and fitting couplings to some more Hornby Colletts. With Veronica back at work, and hangover permitting, I might get a good session of laying track tomorrow.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I clocked up three score years today (with, I hope, at least my allotted ten more still to come). I took today and tomorrow off, as I hope - and expect - to be "unfit to take duty" in the morning. Before going into the city for a very good lunch with Veronica, I used my time productively by renumbering and fitting couplings to some more Hornby Colletts. With Veronica back at work, and hangover permitting, I might get a good session of laying track tomorrow.

If you are not fit to work, surely you should not be tracklaying. Much more difficult.

 

Happy birthday. I'm just a few months behind that landmark and researching a celebratory holiday in Cuba. Have not told SWMBO about the interesting railways there.

[Gwiwer]

I clocked up three score years today (with, I hope, at least my allotted ten more still to come). I took today and tomorrow off, as I hope - and expect - to be "unfit to take duty" in the morning. Before going into the city for a very good lunch with Veronica, I used my time productively by renumbering and fitting couplings to some more Hornby Colletts. With Veronica back at work, and hangover permitting, I might get a good session of laying track tomorrow.

Happy Birthday from one with just 11 months to go until reaching the same milestone. And probably with the same outcome the next day!

[RodneyV]

I clocked up three score years today (with, I hope, at least my allotted ten more still to come). I took today and tomorrow off, as I hope - and expect - to be "unfit to take duty" in the morning. Before going into the city for a very good lunch with Veronica, I used my time productively by renumbering and fitting couplings to some more Hornby Colletts. With Veronica back at work, and hangover permitting, I might get a good session of laying track tomorrow.

 

Hi St Enodoc,

Congratulations on this great occasion. I hope you have a great day.

RodneyV

Regards

[acg5324]

Happy birthday John. Have a great day make sure you don't put the coach numbers on upside down!

[Stubby47]

That age seems so far away from me now, but it will get closer very quickly...

 

Many congratulations

 

Stu