Pete 75C Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Well, with the two scenic boards now built, it was about time to begin a new thread. Following on from Croydon North Street, this will be my take on the western approaches to West Croydon station, firmly in 3rd rail territory on the former Central Division of the Southern Region. Yes, I know... I have a bit of a Croydon fetish going on... There will be a bit more “fact” with this layout as opposed to the pure fiction that was North Street. Sadly, compromises with space mean that things will need to be picked up and moved, altered or left out altogether. Being a lazy modeller, I do much prefer watching trains go by, so this time it's a classic “roundy”. The scenic boards each measure 5’6” x 2’0” but widening to 2’6” at the fiddle yard connections just to allow for a slightly gentler radius as part of the curve at each end will be on view. I worked for BR during Chris Green’s NSE days, so as this period in history is familiar to me, that’s roughly when the layout will be set. Herein lies the first problem... I want to incorporate a little bit of Tramlink running down from the High Street along the front of the layout before disappearing over the flyover into Wandle Park. Tramlink wasn’t around in Network SouthEast days. That’s the first example of me twisting history! Secondly, if I’m honest, the approaches to West Croydon station are actually a little boring... an “up” and “down” line and the reversible Wimbledon branch. Much more interesting is the current arrangement with the Overground reversing siding, so that is what I’ll model. Yeah, you guessed... Overground didn’t come along until 2010. That’ll be the second example of me messing up the timeline... I thought that a pair of rectangular boards might be a little boring, so I’ve introduced a curve in the backscene and have also gone for a curved front edge to the baseboards, for no reason other than it’s a bit different and I think it’ll look OK. Track will be a combination of Tillig large radius points and C&L concrete sleepered flexitrack using Code 83 flatbottom. Definitely out of my Peco comfort zone here... I hijacked the North Street thread and spent the last 10 pages of it babbling on about what I wanted to do next, so here goes... For those not familiar with the area (that’ll be most of you, then), a track plan and a few prototype shots of the section of line I want to model are shown below. I rushed North Street a little as I wanted to get that idea out of my system, but this will be a little slower to come together. As always, comments, suggestions, critique and in fact anything else most welcome. Some shots of the area to be modelled... Approaching West Croydon station © Copyright Martin Addison and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence Tram flyover near Wandle Park, Croydon © Copyright Dr Neil Clifton and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence Finally, some shots of the completed scenic boards. Next step will be to loosely pin the Tillig points and start playing around with the C&L sleeper bases. More soon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriscleveland Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Looking forward to watching the progress for your layout. Croydon North Street is a great example to show things to come Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwich Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Looking good Pete! Looking forward to more now, glad you have gone for the c&l track it is much better than the peco ready to run concrete sleeper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 One question Pete, just when did you discover the 25hr day & 8 day week. I just don't know how you get the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Agree with the poster above. How on earth do you find the time? I see the house is making progress in the background too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Thanks guys. Andy, I really do have other stuff to do as well. Earn money, raise kids etc. Occasional sleep... I'm hoping to retire early in 5 or 6 years time and spend my days on a beach with a cool box of cheap fizzy alcohol but until then, if I don't keep busy I get INCREDIBLY bored...! Having built, levelled and joined the boards, couldn't resist having a play around with the Tillig pointwork. Beautifully built, but one of the tie bars had come adrift and the whole thing looks pretty fragile. Care needed. the point blades are one-piece (no hinge) so have a tendency to sit centrally in the 4ft (no over-centre spring). Slow-action motors are a must. There are only 4 points on the scenic side, so that makes life easy. Cromptonnut of this parish pointed me in the direction of Minx microdrives for point control, so that's something to consider. I've also just realised I'll need an awful lot more C&L sleeper bases! Also took an overall shot showing a 4VEP, and delighted to see that the whole layout appears more spacious than I thought it would. If I can somehow fit 8 coaches into the fiddle yard, I don't think an occasional 8VEP would look too daft running around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 ..........Andy, I really do have other stuff to do as well. Earn money, raise kids etc. Occasional sleep... I'm hoping to retire early in 5 or 6 years time and spend my days on a beach with a cool box of cheap fizzy alcohol but until then, if I don't keep busy I get INCREDIBLY bored...! Same plan here, but w/o the kids - maybe it's get up and go I'm lacking rather than time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobster Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Looking good Pete - Up to your usual very high standard . Cheers, Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted April 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2015 Liking this already Pete, loving your benchworking skills too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwich Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Looks good Pete! Have you considered MERG point control with servos? Very slow and especially for handbuilt trackwork, superb bit of kit! Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Looks good Pete! Have you considered MERG point control with servos? Very slow and especially for handbuilt trackwork, superb bit of kit! The jury's out on point control. I mentioned Minx because until I was given the heads-up on them, I'd never heard of them. They're absolutely tiny and the motors themselves could even in certain circumstances be surface mounted. Needing only 4, the price is relatively pocket-friendly too. Need to have a good think about what to use. I do know that I want to get the whole thing wired and running properly before even thinking about scenics, and that means another 2 baseboards for the hidden fiddle yard. I had expected to have to shim the C&L sleeper bases a little to bring them up to the height of the Tillig pontwork which looks (like Peco) to have a deeper base. Delighted to note that they're a perfect match height-wise. That should save a little time and effort. For convenience and cheapness, I am planning to use Code 100 for the fiddle yard and that will mean a little height difference at the baseboard joints either end. So much to think about but I'm not in a rush with this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted April 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2015 So much to think about but I'm not in a rush with this one. You catching the planning bug Pete LOL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You catching the planning bug Pete LOL? It does give a nasty little nip when it bites, Colin. I've spent a couple of months collecting photos of the area, maps etc and must make the effort to get down to Croydon on a photo reconnaissance mission. The area has no doubt changed beyond all recognition from when I used to live nearby. Trouble is, knowing me, I'll then ignore all of that and just build what I want. There are 4 certainties to be included on the layout... I want to use the back of the London Rd shops as a scenic break at the right-hand end, the tramlink flyover as a scenic break at the left-hand end, and somewhere in the middle will be the concrete monstrosity that is the Roman Way flyover (images below nicked from Streetview). There was also a funny little house right up against the railway line that was thought to be a Surrey Iron Railway toll house and that is a must too. Trouble is it was knocked down around 2008/9 and Tramlink built right through it... I'll have to "move" it slightly and just pretend it survived demolition. I do try to be authentic, but I always muck around with history! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted April 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2015 I think you are spot on Pete. Its an Iain Rice mantra that the best way to do freelance is to do a montage of real bits from the right sort of era/location and stitch them together realistically. There is a middle ground between absolute inch for inch copies of reality at one end and completely making it up at the other. I'm very clear that I will be running stock from 1945 to 1965 but Burghcleres layout is accurate only to 1946. My Southampton Bargate never existed but it's heavily enough based on Terminus to be a decent stab at what might have been. Because you are compiling elements from the real place, albeit bending time, I'm pretty confident you will come up with something that has the character of West Croydon over a 20 year timespan. Because of the job you did with North Street, im also sure the modelling will be spot on too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwich Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I would definelty give MERG a go Pete, worked an absolute treat on my layout which I believe is about the same size of yours. Not expensive either, around £10 for the board and £2 each for the servos. Easy assembly with piano wire and brass tubes as well shown in the following picture of New Southwich: New Southwich point assembly by southwichrailway, on Flickr Hope that helps. Thanks, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 PTFE tube works as well, if not better, in my experience due to its self lubricating properties. Rgds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 It does give a nasty little nip when it bites, Colin. I've spent a couple of months collecting photos of the area, maps etc and must make the effort to get down to Croydon on a photo reconnaissance mission. The area has no doubt changed beyond all recognition from when I used to live nearby. Trouble is, knowing me, I'll then ignore all of that and just build what I want. There are 4 certainties to be included on the layout... I want to use the back of the London Rd shops as a scenic break at the right-hand end, the tramlink flyover as a scenic break at the left-hand end, and somewhere in the middle will be the concrete monstrosity that is the Roman Way flyover (images below nicked from Streetview). There was also a funny little house right up against the railway line that was thought to be a Surrey Iron Railway toll house and that is a must too. Trouble is it was knocked down around 2008/9 and Tramlink built right through it... I'll have to "move" it slightly and just pretend it survived demolition. I do try to be authentic, but I always muck around with history! streetview_01.jpg streetview_03.jpg streetview_02.jpg Unfortunately it's changed a hell of a lot over the last few years. I've just moved back to the area after being away for more years than I care to remember. I just wish I'd taken hundreds of photos before it changed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Thanks for the tips guys. One thing's for sure - whatever I use for point control, I'm certainly looking forward to banishing the Peco solenoid "clunk". There's something slightly mesmerising about point blades throwing slowly... Colin - that pretty much sums up the way I feel about prototype research. If you can achieve the correct "feel" for an area in a certain period of time, that's more than good enough for me. I don't think I'm disciplined or skilled enough to attempt an exact copy of anything (even if I had the space)! I also don't think it would be as much "fun" and that, for me, is reason enough for building a layout. If I didn't enjoy doing it, what on earth would be the point? Duncan - wherabouts are you now? I visit my father in Wallington often enough but have not actually spent any time in Croydon itself since just after Tramlink opened. That's going back a while now! I have had a wander around on Streetview and you're right, the change from what I remember growing up is immense. I too wish I'd taken a stack of photos of the area in the 70s and 80s. Hindsight is a terrible curse. The plan for this weekend is to put a couple of coats of magnolia on the middle floor landing and move this old house on towards getting it sold. No modelling for me... I told you this would be a slower build. Other stuff gets in the way. Damnit... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Duncan - wherabouts are you now? I visit my father in Wallington often enough but have not actually spent any time in Croydon itself since just after Tramlink opened. That's going back a while now! I have had a wander around on Streetview and you're right, the change from what I remember growing up is immense. I too wish I'd taken a stack of photos of the area in the 70s and 80s. Hindsight is a terrible curse. Morning Pete I'm less than 10 minutes walk from East Croydon station. Tramlink has changed a lot of the area and there is a lot of re-development going on and a great deal more planned for the next few years. I'm not sure that all of the changes are for the better (or am I getting old and sentimental) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Just discovered this. Will be watching with interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Unfortunately it's changed a hell of a lot over the last few years. I've just moved back to the area after being away for more years than I care to remember. I just wish I'd taken hundreds of photos before it changed I grew up in Battersea and I think the same. Could have got some wonderful views of the area and trains running into Stewarts Lane behind our house. Now in Wallington so watching this locally based layout grow with interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 The same thing happened to me with one set of Tillig points (one blade became detached from the tie bar, despite using slo-mo motors) and I never found a way of fixing it without ruining the appearance. I tried superglue and then contact adhesive, but neither proved strong enough after a few dozen movements. If you do, please let us all know! I highly recommend the Minx minidrive motors. I bought a pair and tested them against a set of servos. They are far superior, self-adjusting for temperature changes (which is very important for Tillig points), sensitive to fouling, giving an audible alarm when finding a blockage and far easier to set up. They are also far easier to hide when surface mounted, which I prefer. Despite the price, I will use more of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 The same thing happened to me with one set of Tillig points (one blade became detached from the tie bar, despite using slo-mo motors) and I never found a way of fixing it without ruining the appearance. I tried superglue and then contact adhesive, but neither proved strong enough after a few dozen movements. If you do, please let us all know! The tie bar was rattling around in the box when the point arrived in the post. At the very end of each point blade is a tiny "hook". Luckily this just slotted straight back into the tie bar and then "clicked" into place. If your point blade came detached after installation and during use, I'm wondering if the hook broke off? If that's the case, I can understand how it would be difficult to get some kind of permanent fix. I did quite a bit of reading up on Tillig before deciding to give them a go and the fact that they're fragile keeps cropping up! I believe some people have replaced the tie bar with a very thin copperclad sleeper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 The tie bar was rattling around in the box when the point arrived in the post. At the very end of each point blade is a tiny "hook". Luckily this just slotted straight back into the tie bar and then "clicked" into place. pointblade.jpg If your point blade came detached after installation and during use, I'm wondering if the hook broke off? If that's the case, I can understand how it would be difficult to get some kind of permanent fix. I did quite a bit of reading up on Tillig before deciding to give them a go and the fact that they're fragile keeps cropping up! I believe some people have replaced the tie bar with a very thin copperclad sleeper. Thanks, that explains it! in my case, not only the hook but also two of the fixings towards the heel end. I had to scrap it in the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Shall follow along with interest, looks good so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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