Earl Bathurst Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Good evening Like most people I have an idea of what I want but then go mad and want to build something big. In 0 gauge to get nice long trains running you need plenty of room but I don't have space for a big layout. So back to the drawing board. I want something that's got plenty of potential and operational interest. I want something small as space at present is at a premium. I have had a look at the pdf which is available on small o gauge plans but not found anything which really draws me. Can anyone help with a small plan, I really must do something, in my minds eye I want something that is small, fun to operate and go to town on the detail. If anyone could help that would be great. Cheers Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 You could have a look at the late Carl Arendt's micro-layout website and look at scaling up one of the 00 or HO plans. Sure, some are just gimmicks but there are plenty of good ideas there which could give you a realistic layout with good operating potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF51 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Scott, It might help if you give some idea of what you like, what you want to model. Period, railway(s), type of scene, etc... Jim F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If you like lots of operation, an industrial scene could be what you want. Also an advantage as you can use small shunting locomotives a lot. Another option is to consider a branch-line or light-railway terminus. Again, lots of shunting as loaded and empty wagons are shunted then marshalled into an outgoing train. But like Jim said, it would help if you established roughly what era, region, etc you are interested in modelling. Also, do you have any rolling stock already? If so, this could help tie down these basic ideas. Otherwise, take a shelf of say 10-12 feet long and 2 feet deep and start playing around with pieces of track, points, etc. To see what you like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 What size constitutes "small"? Apart from my loft layout (17' x 8') I have 4 other O scale layouts, varying from 12ft long down to 5ft - including hidden staging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Scott, The Gauge O Guild has published two books titled Small Layouts and Small Layouts 2. They will give an idea of what the GOG defines as small. Most of the layouts are straight, short and narrow. My South Wales inspired Cwm Bach layout is a 15' x 2' shelf along one side of my garage. It comprises a small terminal station and an exchange siding and single road locomotive depot for a colliery branch. The basic operating pattern includes passenger trains of up to two coaches, which can alternate between push-pull and run-round operation; a daily pick-up goods train of up to five wagons and brake-van, and coal trains of five or six wagons with the loaded mineral wagons brought down from the colliery for exchange with empties brought up the valley on the main line. Operations allow for three main-line and one industrial loco to be in action with a second industrial parked and on display in the depot, which I think is pretty good for such a small layout. There are seven points, two of which are in a 3-way tandem. A complete cycle of exchanging wagons between the colliery branch and main-line can take up to twenty minutes, especially with 3-link couplings. I think the layout would benefit from another siding for general goods traffic and there is enough room to squeeze one in without destroying the character of the layout. A big advantage of the South Wales valleys is that the locos are almost all tank engines. I have attached a few teaser photos, My layout can be seen on RMWeb at: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80426-cwm-bach-a-south-wales-branch-line/ Regards, Chris Klein Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveymills Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Scott, The Gauge O Guild has published two books titled Small Layouts and Small Layouts 2. They will give an idea of what the GOG defines as small. Most of the layouts are straight, short and narrow. My South Wales inspired Cwm Bach layout is a 15' x 2' shelf along one side of my garage. It comprises a small terminal station and an exchange siding and single road locomotive depot for a colliery branch. The basic operating pattern includes passenger trains of up to two coaches, which can alternate between push-pull and run-round operation; a daily pick-up goods train of up to five wagons and brake-van, and coal trains of five or six wagons with the loaded mineral wagons brought down from the colliery for exchange with empties brought up the valley on the main line. Operations allow for three main-line and one industrial loco to be in action with a second industrial parked and on display in the depot, which I think is pretty good for such a small layout. There are seven points, two of which are in a 3-way tandem. A complete cycle of exchanging wagons between the colliery branch and main-line can take up to twenty minutes, especially with 3-link couplings. I think the layout would benefit from another siding for general goods traffic and there is enough room to squeeze one in without destroying the character of the layout. A big advantage of the South Wales valleys is that the locos are almost all tank engines. I have attached a few teaser photos, My layout can be seen on RMWeb at: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80426-cwm-bach-a-south-wales-branch-line/ Regards, Chris Klein Dear Chris I can only find Vol 1 of the 'Small Layouts' pdf on the GOG site, do you have a link to Vol 2 ? kind regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 http://www.gauge0guild.com/general/guild_products.aspx Click on the books - top right - you have to buy vol. 2! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Good evening Like most people I have an idea of what I want but then go mad and want to build something big. In 0 gauge to get nice long trains running you need plenty of room but I don't have space for a big layout. So back to the drawing board. I want something that's got plenty of potential and operational interest. I want something small as space at present is at a premium. I have had a look at the pdf which is available on small o gauge plans but not found anything which really draws me. Can anyone help with a small plan, I really must do something, in my minds eye I want something that is small, fun to operate and go to town on the detail. If anyone could help that would be great. Cheers Scott Depends what you mean by small! Dock Green is 16 x 2 feet (19 x 2 feet now with its new extension board) which is too big for me to erect at home but I would call this pretty small. Goods trains are limited to seven and a brake and there is no passenger station. I wouldn't want to say how small you could go and still find O gauge satisfying but you can't escape the fact that it's a big scale. You could have a look at my layout topic on Dock Green - might be some help? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58132-dock-green/ Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Hi Thanks for the replies. I model BR western region. I am from wales so something small and welsh would be most suitable. I don't want anything longer than 10 feet. I want to have a small station as I have the fantastic lion heart auto coach and pannier along with a Bubble car in the process of being built. Want to have a layout that will have plenty of shunting with the occasional passenger working. I just struggle to find a plan that ticks those boxes. Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If you passenger service is an Auto-Coach train you can get away without a run-around on the layout. Bear in mind that if you use Peco points, the absolute minimum distance for a cross over (measured from point blade to point blade) is 30 inches. Two cross-overs for a run-around and you've already lost 5 feet in length. There are indeed ways around this: The Piano Line (RM 1965!) is a good example where the run-around is through the goods yard, keeping the space requirement down. This was in 4mm scale, but I think you could do something quite successfully in 10' x 2' in 7mm scale. My suggestion would be to make the left-most point (next to the signals in this diagram) a Wye point as it would give you a little extra room to put in the platform. Decide on a maximum train length. As I recall a pannier is about 32 ft long and an autocoach about 60ft, which is roughly 26 inches in O gauge. 60ft would only give you 4-wheel goods wagons and a short brake van in the same length. In keeping trains short you might do well with a 4 or 6-wheeled brake 3rd and 2 goods wagons to run a mixed train in alternation with the Auto-train. Certainly, a very short mixed looks a little more believable than two or three wagons and guard's van. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I got this in 6ft x 1ft, increasing to 2ft in 00. The loop will take one bogie coach. Presumably an 0 gauge version would be about 7/4 the length, so 10ft 6in, if the points are in the same proportions. The original idea was for the dairy to be just one siding, until I realised I could squeeze three in! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95749-ingletyme-a-very-puzzling-blt/&do=findComment&comment=1773846 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Hi Thanks for the replies. I model BR western region. I am from wales so something small and welsh would be most suitable. I don't want anything longer than 10 feet. I want to have a small station as I have the fantastic lion heart auto coach and pannier along with a Bubble car in the process of being built. Want to have a layout that will have plenty of shunting with the occasional passenger working. I just struggle to find a plan that ticks those boxes. Scott 10 feet? Well it can probably be done but it will be a struggle. When I was developing Dock Green I used lining paper and Peco point templates. I much preferred this approach to a computer based track design program but that's a matter of personal taste. Whatever method you choose for your planning it is essential that you make provision for the length of points and take note of fouling points when totting up siding capacities. Good luck with your planning, I think some hefty compromises will be forced on you - In 10 feet the scope for operation will be quite limited - is that length going to include a fiddle yard? If you are happy to develop a nicely detailed scene - almost a diorama - it could be very worthwhile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 In O gauge, I've found that 10 feet can be quite tight, but 12 feet gives you enough room to do something more interesting.Can your layout be stretched to 10'6"? I reckon that you could get Piano lines built onto 3x 3'6" boards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy2891 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Hi Scott Just found your blog on wanting to build a small but functional O gauge layout. I have the exact same problem as yourself .. I too have just this weekend dived into O gauge modelling and again like you do have the same kind of space limitations. So I hope these three suggestions help .. the first layout is featured in the current Railway modeller annual - "Dormston Terminus" by Stephen Shepard .. this is a simple terminus to fiddle yard layout, with plenty of shunting potential. It has a small station building, coal yard, goods shed on a bay road and a good run around loop within the station. This layout is designed to be a multi region layout, but with the right buildings (Gwr in your favour) would look absolutely fine. It measures 10ft length by 1'-3" width, you could expand to 2' width .. which I would recommend, thus giving you a little more scenic scope The next layout can be found on a google search (yourmodelrailways.net) .. its called "Halstead". This layout is 5' length and 1' width .. this is a greatly modelled layout considering the limited space and again with a western flavour and a little expansion, you could improve on the layout to how you would like it. Another layout which I found on google (youtube.com or mmdmrc.org.uk) it is a southern region layout called "Little Binfield" By Tony Dean. This layout is 11' length by 2' width, again with a few adjustments (Gwr buildings, shorter fiddle yard or take out turntable and incorporate a loop) either options are possible. These layouts are in my opinion superb and for what you have set out as a wish list .. I hope they are more of what you had in mind, or indeed which you would want?. hope this has been helpful, Kind Regards Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 HI I think I can stretch to 12ft long. Thanks Dan for the help I shall have a look at those layouts you suggested. I have a variety of stock from large diesels to small steam and diesel. I can run the large locos down the club but want something for home use and to sink my teeth into. Once again thanks for the info guys. Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy2891 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Hi Scott No worries for the info bud, only too glad to help - where I can. That sounds good, when you say large loco's.. that being Gwr Manor, collett or mogul?. I don't know if you did know, but it was not uncommon for manors or colletts locos to run with one or two coaches - that being to small coastal branch lines. Most likely reason for these trains/specials is due to the busy summertime holiday makers breaking away from the big cities and heading for the sunny south west. The mainline train would drop the coaches (slip coaches) while going through mainline stations and guard would have a braking facility in which to draw the running coaches to a steady and smooth halt in the station, then the waiting branch loco's would collect the one, two or three coaches to take off to those small terminus stations. Failing that, just remember its your layout buddy and in the comfort of your own home.. do as you would like to Please keep us posted on your ideas, pictures of progress?. All the very best Scott Kind Regards Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Thanks Dan I have a Heljan western and a Western Saint which are the big locos at the moment. But normal run of the mill small Western locos then. I ll keep you posted on any progress. Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ52 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Hi, My layout is 12ft x 18in. I'm not sure how to load photos on to this site, but it was featured in the last Gauge O Guild gazette if you can find a copy. I have found 12ft to be a good size for a small layout, but I'm sure given smaller turnouts than the standard Peco product that 10 ft would be possible. If you can't build your own ( and I can't) then Marcway or the forthcoming smaller radius Peco points might help. Good luck, the planning is always fun! Terry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted April 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2015 I think that it is possible to modify the Box St design (featured on another RMWeb thread) to incorporate an extra passenger line across the rear. So your autocoach+tank would shuttle each way across the back of the shunting area scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Hi Terry, your Merton High Street, Guild Gazette February 2015 was a good read. Well done sir. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy2891 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Hi Scott, No worries bud, look forward to seeing your progress. If I can be of anymore help to you, then please dont hesistate to ask. I might not reply straight back if its during the daytime due to work commitments, but am online most evenings, so I will get back to you as soon as I can. Kind regards Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ52 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Hi Terry, your Merton High Street, Guild Gazette February 2015 was a good read. Well done sir. I'm flattered and quite chuffed by your comment. The article was better than the layout! Terry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I'm flattered and quite chuffed by your comment. The article was better than the layout! Terry I know that feeling well. I'm always nervous when people see my layouts in the flesh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 ............................. I used lining paper and Peco point templates. I much preferred this approach to a computer based track design program but that's a matter of personal taste. ....................... Whoopee . At last I know I'm not alone. . I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me because I don't use some form of CAD, but my 40yrs old drafting equipment and templates. . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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