Caledonian

Thanks for that - must look more closely to see if I can spot the end doors

Slightly OT here but I've seen numerous photies of what at first appear to be 27T tipplers being used for coal traffic at Mountain Ash, but looking more closely they seem to be slightly longer. Is this just an illusion or were they really a slightly different spec?

All I can offer is a couple of observations: The fixing points on the boxes look odd and suggest that they are just handy fixing points for the chains rather than intended for that purpose. Their real purpose looks to be for attaching to something mechanical, or even hinges. Whatever their true purpose they are obviously not so strongly constructed as the two upright stanchions with the substantial rings on the top. These suggest a linkage to a crane or something of that nature and are clearly intended for lifting in a way that the brackets attached to the chains are not.

An unliveried one still hiding round the back of Heaton yesterday afternoon

They have been intermittently lurking in Heaton Depot for a few weeks now.

I'd also add to my whinge above that not one item from the 2019 catalogue [and precious little of 2018 before that] has ever been seen as a result of Hornby's failure to get their act together and actually deliver some stock and that's really frustrating because we're not talking about the old moan about the length of time between announcement and delivery. These are models which Hornby has successfully produced, has received by the pallet-load from China and has had enthusiastically reviewed. They just can't get them on to the shelves

In general terms there were two reasons for using brake vans on colliery lines. [a] A combination of heavy trains, long distances and steep gradients - or any combination thereof which outweighed the hassle of shunting with a brake van hung on them, and/or if at any point a train strayed on to BR metals.

Most kind. A very helpful answer

What everybody else said. As a general rule of thumb the choice of wagon was heavily dependent on the size of the coal screens where they were loaded. This meant that while it was possible to mix and match wagons to a degree, the size would be consistent. If you opt to run 21T hopper wagons they won't mix with 16T steel bodied minerals. On the other hand you might sometimes see a mix of wooden bodied and steel bodied wagons. So far as colour is concerned its very much a matter of local policy, but if you're looking for something convincing but not necessarily specific, I'd suggest a grey base predominantly overlaid with dark rust - lots of it.

Can anyone confirm whether the LMS 1F 0-6-0 tanks hired for this undertaking were painted unlined black with WD markings - like the 3Fs which went to France in 1940 .

Where or not this was the case I couldn't possibly say as I'm not that ancient, but as a general observation bauxite wagons seem to go very dark very quickly. Red Lead on the other hand although starting off as a rich red brown, very rapidly oxodizes to a very distinctive pink - very.

Sounds good, but they need to get their act together. Once upon a time there was quite a successful Hornby concession in a corner of the toy department in Fenwick's department store in Newcastle. Then Hornby pulled out, in favour of direct sales using that internet thingey. Fenwicks. however decided to go it alone, bought some stock from Hornby/Airfix and bought a lot of other stuff as well so that they now have Bachmann, Oxford and Tamiya and all sorts of goodies. Not so great as a proper model shop but I aint complaining, except that... In comes the new management down Margate way and they want a concession arrangement. Fair enough, but because Hornby are moving back in Fenwicks aren't buying new stock from them as that would genuinely complicate things enormously, but Hornby can't get their act together and can't even supply the necessary bar codes. This has literally been going on for months and currently the Hornby stock on the shelves comprises a number of locomotives - over £100 a pop, a few coaches and just three [3] wagons - they had four wagons three weeks ago but I bought one of them. Oh and Oxford has disappeared - a couple of those southern tank engines [in Newcastle!] and no wagons at all. The strategy sounds good, but they need to actually roll it out with real models

On the face of it this seems an odd request and it would help to know what you're actually trying to to do. Do you already possess both and need to renumber a third [or fourth] to avoid duplication, or is there a more cunning plan afoot?

I'm mildly surprised that this thread has come so far without a single reference to the Wisbech and Upwell...

A possibility might be the Waterloo Goods branch in Aberdeen. Railway history in Aberdeen was a touch fractured, so bear with me, but in simplified terms it was approached from the south by what eventually became the Caledonian, terminating on the present [Joint] Station site, close by the western end of the harbour. Totally unconnected with it was what became the Great North of Scotland Railway which commenced at Waterloo Quay, further to the east. In the course of time the two were connected by a new line running directly north between what thus became the Joint Station and Kittybrewster Station on the GNoSR. The line from the original GNoSR terminus on Waterloo Quay to Kittybrewster then became a freight only line. In terms of setting you pays your money and you takes your pick. Some of the surrounding were industrial, some residential and even bucolic. There were interchange sidings for the gas works and even such rail-served oddities as at least one granite-turning works [think columns for classical facades] - all buildings were granite of course whether cottages or factories, although to be honest wriggly tin wasn't unknown on the industrial side. And if you really want to be unusual part of the route was [and still is] laid along the bed of the former Aberdeenshire Canal, making for a unique style of cutting.

Exactly so, which is another reason for producing a Peckett quality Neilson/North British puggy rather than the Caley version, to help distinguish between the old and the new

There are some differences, but the big problem is that Smokey Joe is substantially overscaled - 9mm too long and over 5mm too high [and don't ask me about the wheels] which is a lot on such a small loco, and in addition the firebox has been inflated to accomodate the motor. I've tried detailing it and masking some of its faults but in the end its just too big. We really are looking at a complete new tooling and yes, it would be sensible to mark this by producing the North British rather than the Caley version - but think of the easy conversion possibilities

My understanding is that aside from some of the excellent reasons given above, it was also considered good practice to turn tank engines in order to equalise the wear on the tyres.

I don't recall the numbers [or where I found them] but I believe the most northerly allocation was Carlisle - or did any creep further north during the early LMS period?

Splendid. Exactly what I wanted to know

I know and he's great. I just wish there was somebody doing the same further back

There is at least one very useful website [http://www.brdatabase.info/index.php] tracing the history - shed allocations - of all British Railways locos. However there's a fatal flaw in that it starts off with where a locomotive was sitting in 1948 and is silent as to its earlier history. Is there a comparable site for LMS and other pre-grouping allocations. My particular interest at the moment lies in a Black 5 no 5162/45162. In 1948 it was at Perth South and afterwards went on to an obligatory stint at Polmadie and then Carlisle Kingmoor before spending 10 years at Aberdeen Ferryhill. Very much a Scottish loco from 1948 therefore, but what about before then? I seem to recall someone mentioning that there was a big changeover after the war, bringing quite a number of locos north. 5162 one of them or was it always Scottish?

Interestingly enough I was watching young Mr May the other day in a quite different programme where he and two casual acquaintances went driving in China. It was, quite frankly, astonishing to see how technically advanced and at least outwardly prosperous the place is. Now it wasn't going into what goes on in the factories, but very clearly any impression that we're talking about cut-price sweat-shops staffed by the grateful poor is very wide of the mark

I'll cheerfully confess my ignorance on this one, but can recall as a kid being sent out to pillage the trackbed of the the old Ballater line for lumps of coal. There was a surprising amount of it, but it wasn't very good on an ordinary domestic fire. It was fine if added to an already roaring hot one, but very reluctant to light on its own. I'd suspect therefore that there were indeed dedicated stores of "small coals" for stoves, rather than nicking it off the tender

David Smith had some very unkind things to say about about Fowler 3F tanks in his Legends of the Glasgow & South Western Railway in LMS Days, and commented "I have seen it written that it was G&SW men who christened those engines Jinties. As far as I am concerned, I never heard the term used. I do not think that the G&SW men used any such term for those engines. Their scorn was too great."