James

It only look about three foot square when I first saw it!

But that's EM - P4 ballast is quite different... Incidently, with the change of the formula for Kleer, could discussions about it be a dead end? There may be a lot of worth in investing things like acrylic varnishes and readily available glues now.

The results here are superb - it shows just how good N gauge can be! It puts so many other N gauge layouts to shame! I hope to see this in the flesh someday

And the problem with drinking lager is?! This is true for all leuiser (sp?) activities - some people can afford it and some people can't. The three railways concept makes a lot of sense. time too comes into it, not many normal people will want to devote an enitre day to sitting on train in this way. Many heritage railways' full lines fares are quite expensive for a day out too - I genuinely think that railways might pick up a little extra business if they put their full fare tables on line and on time tables. My in laws were taking their other grand child for a few days in the west midlands to safari parks and the like, but ended up at the SVR. The saw the price (the full line price) and immediately said no! I asked them why didn't they just travel on part of the line - they said they didn't know you could. So that was a few quid on the fares lost along with maybe a few pounds in a gift shop of cafe.

The public see those 'working' there as being staff so it may not go down very well - I know one of the board of trustee members of the railway to which I was referring and he finds it frustrating to see the scenes I've mentioned. It just looks unprofessional - it doesn't matter if the staff in question are paid or voluntary in my opinion.

Not quite the same though! I play cricket to go and play, not to sit around - that happens in the pub afterwards!

I wouldn't say so - real railwaymen like to be well aware from the paying public! Not always but there are some excellent people on the railway, but the thing to remember here is that the markets are totally different markets. What I never understand is why people volunteer and appear to spend so much of their shift sitting chatting?!

I think I was one who said they weren't 'real' railways. Those who have been on the railway may also feel that they don't have the feeling of the railway - I actually think this is, for me, is often down to the attitude of the staff/volunteers which makes them feel very unprofessional places. Some staff I've had dealings with make you feel you're spoling their day out on the railway! We had a wonderful example on Saturday last week - on a station with my wife, little boy and my parents. We thoguht about sitting outside ont the platform and having a drink. We couldn't because the two tables outside the buffet were full of the railway's staff - none of whom seemed to actually be actively drinking or eating. We went elsewhere - other side of the road where we could still see what was happening but served by staff who actualy seemed bothered. Not all are like this of course, but it can affect how one views such places.

It's relatively recent but I'm not sure, sorry. Yes; I've seen examples. An excuse for weather betaen older examples next to brand new ones too I think!

I think they'd have lasted much longer then; assuming the same desire to rid the country of steam I think they could have been amoung the last to be withdrawn if they were efficient as Beyer-Garretts in other countries were and were concentrated on specific flows where they power and flexiblity would have been used fully.

Chris, I like that! I like that a lot! Would have been a powerful looking machine!

I really like to see people taking the time and effort to get signature items of the 'modern' scene like troughing and location cabinets One thing to bear in mind for the cabinets is that if they're long standing ones, they would normally be parallel with the track but newer ones in the last few years are now required to be at right angles - I think the idea is to allow safer working when the line's open to traffic. I believe there are exceptions sometimes if a cabinet is replaced on a like for like basis though.

Interesting links but not the ones from Railway Modeller I'm afraid.

I think that's a good point and I suspect rather valid too. Interesting one layout not mentioned is Colin Peake's Shifting Sands - not strictly 'preserved' but certainly in what we'd now call 'heritage railway' area. http://shiftingsands.fotopic.net It's very convicing and does highlight the simple operation of such railways.

Adam, that looks superb! I like that a lot!

The GCR makes money mainline testing - 37 255 takes wagons at 60mph up and down the mainline at times for testing! The advantage the GCR has is that it is a 'mainline' in terms of alignment so it was designed for higher speeds. One conversation I had mentioned that some non-railwaymen connected with the GCR underestomated the cost of maintaining infracstructure for 60mph running as opposed to 25mph tourist mode. One reason I think for not allowing running like this with anyone out on track is for insurance reasons (the GCR doesn't allow red zone whilst running at 60mph I'm told) as volunteers with no real railway expereince may not be safe enough to work unless they had a sentinal style system which would be costly on a small scale. Ian J, I don't think there's anything stopping a TOC running over a heritage line to extend a service!

In the same vein how about the Derwent Valley?

The exchange operation between DBS and the Ribble railway would, I think, make an intersting model!

THERE'S NO NEED TO SHOUT Have you not considered that the discussion here is a reflection of why they are unpopular as subjects for layouts? I am sorry for trying further intellectual discussion. With reagrds the NYMR's Whitby service being there for the community - what happens if someone in Pickering wants to travel on a Tuesday in February? The railway isn't running then. Plus the train takes and hour and a half, Yorkshire Coastliner will get you there in an hour, and out of season too, and the car will do it in much less than that too if it's quiet and for less than the £21.00 fare on the NYMR. Hertiage railways are tourist attractions; they may add to their communities economies but they aren't there to serve local passengers. Tourists, daytrippers and holidaymakers are the target groups; these people are happy to pay £21 for an adult fare and take three times longer on the train than in the car. For them it's about the overall expereince and not just a means of travel. I'm not criticising heritage railways for surving tourists and not locals, after all there were reasons why many of them closed.

But take the NYMR for example, it does bring in a lot of visitors to the cummunities through which is runs, but someone in Pickering can no longer go to their local station and catch a train which could take them to York and then catch a connection to, say, London.

Maybe it's because they aren't 'real' railways? They're almost like 'steam zoos' at times at many locations. I recently read Rolt's Railway Advneture and you se in their he was determined to make sure the Talyllyn remained part of the community and not just for tourists - I doubt most 'preserved' railways really serve their communities as railways - mostly the benefit is from the money which their visitors spend when they are in the vicinity.

This touches on themes touched upon in the WHR thread. Consider this, how is has NYMR 'preserved' what the Whitby - Malton line was when they have Southern locos running up and down?

I bet they would, but like so many railways they'd be by the lineside for much of it. This perhaps why the FR have approached in the manner in which they have. From what I've seen the line seems well used by visitors to the area, so I guess it works. I doubt the new WHR will ever satisfy everyone; the old WHR is now confined to books and the memories of the few left who saw and travelled upon it.

What's happened to the 25 then? I rather liked it!

I don't know what was parked near Leeds, but things like these - http://www.ontrackplant.com/photos/tags/excavator RRV does indeed stand for Roal Rail Vehicle - there are hundreds of RRV's in use on the railway of all sorts of types.