Izzy

Having suffered sound at exhibitions which I found over-intrusive, it is only recently that I have discovered that sound for a home based layout can be a different story when there are not myriad other sounds competing for your attention, but that this only holds good while just one or two locos are 'sounding' at the same time, any more and it just becomes a mixed cacophony of noise as you can experience at a show. Since I only want one or two running at the same time at most this restriction suits me fine. Izzy

From what I have read so far I understand that not all the locos produced are affected, just certain batches. Is this correct? Noting the reference to the pickups facing down and those for the rear trailing wheels fouling the track, could it just be a simple case of some of the batches of keeper plates having these pickups fitted the wrong way up, pointing down rather than up as is more common, a production error rather than a basic design fault. Rather a shame whatever. Izzy

I may be wrong, but I think if you get too adventurous with curving the track base you may find some of the rail sections will end up either too short or too long. This might be seen most clearly with the blades and where they finish, but will also affect the stock rails. Izzy

Some such as myself have encountered a very similar issue with the newish 4F from Farish - not everybody experiences it. Eventually the conclusion was reached that it was a gear train versus loading issue, in that the loco has a couple of idler spur gears ( i.e. non reduction) to reach the driven axle and the resulting level of backlash that is generated causes issues at certain speeds. Most multi-stage spur gear trains can 'wind' themselves up under loading, and when this lessens, release this energy by 'un-winding' themselves. This is often related to the speed at which the gears revolve and so becomes noticeable at higher rpm's. Again this is a loco that has split axle current collection and thus no braking friction on the axles/wheels that wiper type pickups can provide that would help absorb differences between load demand and supply from the motor so you get this concertina type drive. Add in the dissimilar gear train to both axles with differing levels of backlash which will then fight each other plus the weight of the railcar to provide maximum grip on the rails ........... I would suggest, as others have, that really strong wipers on the wheels, to provide a constant base loading, will offset most of this hunting with those railcars where it exists. Why some and not others? Probably down to some have more friction/less slop/less backlash in the bearings/drive train, production tolerance differences. As they loosen up they might become similar if used at the speeds at which this becomes apparent. Izzy

I am not familar with the Hornby 08, but the Bachmann version has the crank moulding plugging into the wheel centre to help keep the outside cranks in position. Wheel conversions to EM/P4 use separate cranks that sometimes need gluing to stay in place when they are under heavy loading, and it does seem as if this might be the answer here if the Hornby cranks are also separate and not keyed to the wheels. Worth a try at least. Izzy

Having had similar problems with rolling stock being too free running at times and especially when shunting I now smear - don't laugh - car grease into/onto the bearings/axle ends. The old LMP stuff. It still lets things revolve but being 'stiff' stops over-free running. Might be worth a go. Izzy

I did try that without success I am afraid. There isn't the space between the worm faces and motor body to insert thick enough material to resist the forces applied. The worms just wouldn't budge. I would expect the same scenario to apply to gear/worm pullers. Yes, I concluded that it was just a step too far. I did think about making some new worms (I have the tooling) and producing a unit to just drop into place, but then thought that I might just as well make a new bogie with a better gear ratio to start with, that is when I can get around to it........ Izzy

That's very interesting. I take it the slow speed performance wasn't ideal. I was going to try something similar with the one in my railroad class 31 - the basic design looks very similar - using one of those double shaft Mitsumi motors which I have obtained but I couldn't shift the worms off the Hornby motor shafts and didn't want to do anything not reversible. Izzy

Seems a good and simple piece of kit, and especially that it works with any system, a dedicated wi-fi router I presume. The price point would seriously dent sales of their dedicated wi-fi systems and handsets, but maybe they are already suffering this way against the likes of the Z21 etc. Don't know how long it's been around but that it is out of stock would seem to indicate that either it's newish with only a few units produced to test the waters, or it's already proving quite popular. Looking at the info it seems that it might not have the full range of functions that a 'normal' wired/wireless handset has but if it's only for throttle use that doesn't matter much. I have played with engine driver on my Sprog/JMRI as a throttle. Very interesting. edit: Just wondering if this is meant to replace the wi-fi conversion that I bought for my PA2 and will work with the MRC Prodigy wi-fi handsets as well as phones/tablets? Izzy

John YouChoos has posted an install here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127695-Dapol-oo-gwr-diesel-railcar-zimo-dcc-sound-installation-info/ Izzy

Please be aware that there are some slight size differences between the 2mm SA templates/ Easitrac bases and basic/standard templates generated using Templot. This is certainly the case with the A6/A7 sizes, not sure about any others, but I would presume it to be similar. Might not matter in some cases, but could in others. Izzy

Thanks. Nice to know the programmer is working okay for you now. Always a worry that continual O/s or driver updates will render previously operating equipment useless. Izzy

Yes, many thanks. The problem is, when I said very small a more accurate description might have been tiny. This is a result of it being a test track to start with with no intention for it to be anything else, or even for me to model in the scale (4mm/P4) to any great extent, it all happened by accident as they say, and I seem to have come a bit unstuck here with a platform that can - just - accomodate a 2-car DMU (105) or a loco and a few wagons, and a run-round loop that can just about handle a pair of BR 4-wheel CCT's (made out of TTE coaches) or some Parkside CCT's I have. Neither the platform/loop/fiddle can take me adding a brake on the end. Set in the early-to-mid-60's nor can I employ the post 1969 scenario with the J15 steam loco or the single cab 08 or 15. See what I mean.... heck! What I really should have acquired I now realise was a couple of BG's of some vintage/type/size seen on exGE metals instead of the other NCCPS. I am sure I'll find a way around things eventually one way or another........ Izzy

Any success with this? Having struggled over the years with various bits of equipment hooked up to computers for differing tasks, analogue to digital conversion audio/midi stuff using either parallel or serial interfaces through USB for one, I think the root cause might still be the FTDI drivers and conflict issues with Win 10. Often the latest drivers are proven not to be as suitable as older ones with some equipment even though you get told they should work. Hope a solution is found. Izzy

What an interesting and informative thread. My first, and subsequent reaction to reading it has be - oh blow ( or words to that effect!) - along with the wish I had though about this when making/acquiring a few parcels vehicles for my very small layout. Adding a brake of some kind into my trains is going to be next to impossible. Heck. Izzy

Fitting Sound to the Hornby J15 Sound fitted locos are another of those modelling aspects that you either like or you don't. Until quite recently I was of the latter persuasion. This mostly arose as a result of visiting exhibitions where the volume of sound from layouts was far above what I found was tolerable. Quite excessive and very off-putting. Then a couple of layouts I was keen to see were booked for a particular show and while many of the layouts exhibited had some sound locos the levels were much better/lower. I was able to hear the newish Sutton class 24 on a couple, and some steam on another and came away with a different impression of sound fitted locos, but the high cost remained a major stumbling block and something I just could not justify to myself however nice it seemed. Fast forward a while to the more recent introduction of the Hornby Class 31 TTS model and I got one simply to try and see what having sound on a small home layout situation would be like at a more reasonable cost. Being able to reduce the sound levels to one I found acceptable I found myself hooked. It felt more like driving the loco rather than just making it move if that makes sense. This loco is of course featured in some earlier posts on this thread. So I then took the plunge and acquired a few more of these cheaper TTS chips ( roughly a 1/3rd of the cost of others) to try and judge if having all the locos for ASE sound fitted was a route I would go down over the longer term, (with the 'proper/expensive' sound decoders as I could afford them and where it proved necessary as the only option). These were all diesels and it soon became clear the answer was yes because even with the wrong sound in them they seemed better than those without. Funnily enough this seemed particularly so with the only steam loco I have, the Hornby J15 featured at the start of this thread. When I ran it I expected to hear the hissing/chuffing etc, didn't, and it seemed so wrong. However, it soon became obvious that fitting a cheaper TTS decoder wasn't a viable option, there not being a suitable one available, that the steam versions don't/can't sync with the wheel revolution, and that issues with the TTS decoders were emerging that made further purchase seem a bit risky. Another equally important factor was that under testing the TTS decoders tried couldn't produce the kind of motor control that the non-sound Zimo MX600 fitted in the J15 did, and which I felt it deserved. So the J15 has become the first ASE loco to be fitted with a proper/expensive 'full fat' sound decoder install. There is quite a choice when it comes to fitting sound into a J15 in terms of decoder, speaker, and sound file. Hornby designed the tender so a circular 28mm speaker could be fitted facing downwards under the cast weight fitted and a smaller sized decoder such as a Zimo MX648R can sit sideways at the rear. There is just enough room with the 8-pin decoder socket. This would have been a quick and easy combination to use. However, I spent some time searching out and listening to all the videos on YouTube I could find to try and discover if this really was the best option, wanting to get the best combination I could in the limited space available within the confines of the small tender, and aware that the sound output from some speakers can be a bit tinny and /or muffled. If I was going to spend a fair bit of money then I wanted the best outcome possible in terms of both sound and motor control, and especially as it became clear the cost of the various options was very similar. I then sought the advice of a friend well versed in these matters, and following his advice settled on the YouChoos J15 immersive drive file loaded onto a Zimo MX645R and played through a Zimo 26x20x8mm 3D speaker, once I had satisfied myself that it would be possible to squeeze it all into the tender. The advantage of the larger MX645 over other smaller Zimo sound decoders being that the amplification is better/more capable and it has stay-alive circuitry built-in so it's easy to add a capacitor if desired. Having fitted a Zimo 26x20x8mm 3D speaker into a Bachmann 08 I knew the advantage it produce in terms of quality of sound range and output so combining the two seemed a good idea. Here it is as received along with several sheets of information, only some of which are shown. The service from YouChoos was first rate, as was the information supplied, indeed their website is full of good information, clear, concise, and to the point. Well worth a visit. (no connection except as a first time customer). Fitting this combination did required some alterations, but these were not carried out until the decoder and speaker combo had first been tested using the 8-pin socket with the tender body off to ensure it all worked okay. Then the cast chassis weight was discarded along with the 8-pin socket, the speaker being located at the rear where the socket had been with the MX645 running up the middle in front of it where the weight had been. The decoder was hardwired with all surplus wires, those for lighting etc, being cut off as they were not needed. This meant joining the track feeds from the tender pcb to that of the front connection plug/socket and adding the motor output feeds direct to this as well. Sheet lead , two layers thick, to replace the cast weight was added in the channel in the chassis towards the rear under both the speaker and decoder. Although no issues have arisen with current collection, this being through all the loco and tender wheels, YouChoos supplied a small electrolytic 470uf capacitor already connected to the internal stay-alive circuitry provided in the MX645R. As it seemed silly not to use it a small area of the tender coal space was cut out to provide room for this, which is covered by the removable coal load, The result has I feel been worth the cost and effort involved. The sound file from YouChoo's is first rate, and aided by the output from the Zimo 3D speaker is nice and clear tonally - and loud....! As such, although the default setting is 64 on a scale of 0-100 I have reduced this to just 15, which I found is plenty loud enough for me. After making a few CV adjustments to suit my personal preferences I now almost feel as if I have a real steam loco when running it. Wonderful. All I have to do now is try and find something that looks more like real coal for the tender. I used some from Woodland Scenics but it's far too uniform. The days when I could pop out to the coal bunker for some are long gone........yet nothing quite looks the same as real coal........as real coal. Izzy

If you haven't removed the decoder yet, just try turning the loco around on the track. It might be that it is one of those TTS decoders that only works/progs in one direction with certain DCC systems. At the very least you'd know. Izzy

I don't know if this is the Railroad or Full Fat version, but having encountered this problem when trying the TTS decoders in other locos/makes where with some the motor control was fine and others dire no matter what I tried with cv adjustment, if there is the room available, you might like to try what I have done of 'piggybacking' the TTS onto the loco and keeping the original decoder for motor/lighting control. Basically it means adding the TTS by connecting up the track feed inputs - hardwiring - but with the only output being to the speaker. Give the TTS the same address, and the same acc/dec rates and it should sync the sound fine. You can prog the TTS first using POM just by connecting it to the track feed. You don't need a motor in circuit and it all seems to work okay. You can test the sound this way as well. It's just like running it in a loco, except there isn't one! This may be an option you could consider if all else fails. Izzy

As this might just be the case, could I possibly suggest that you hold fire with cutting the harness? If there is somebody that could play around with it, having the complete harness + socket would enable them to perhaps test the wires/socket for continuity and re-attach them to the tender board in the correct order, even if they had to remove the plug and solder them direct onto the board. I would guess cut at the plug the leads would still reach the loco. Izzy

I posted about this issue of the next18 v's next 18S sockets on the Farish class 40 thread and pauliebanger replied that isolating the speaker contacts would be required/work. I take it from this that there is nothing specific in the standards which cover next18 in 18S sockets. Izzy

Thank you Paul, that's reassuring to know. That simple isolation of the speaker feeds is all that is really required. Nothing too drastic. Given the high quality of the sound files - going by the videos on youtube - that are fitted into these two locos (which I think you may have been involved with), it does seem that obtaining the locos sound fitted is the best/cheapest option for those that can afford it. My concern is in understanding the options open to DCC users such as myself who can't, if this kind of installation becomes the de-facto standard for future releases, which following on from the Castle it would appear it might be. I guess the same situation applies there as well, if they have speakers fitted as default, not sure about that. regards, Izzy

I have just discovered that there are two next18 socket versions on this thread , see my post #7 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127492-testing-Bachmann-36-567-with-esu-53900-dcc-decoder-tester/&do=findComment&comment=2902139 and that there is the possibility that a plain/ordinary/vanilla decoder cannot be fitted if desired. Hope I'm wrong. Izzy

Does this mean that anybody buying the new sound ready next18 socket Farish class 40 (with a speaker fitted as default so all that has to happen for sound is to plug in a next18 sound decoder), can't run it under DCC unless they fit an expensive sound decoder they might not want/need/afford. Oh dear is all I can say if that is the case, and wonder what the reaction will be when this becomes common knowledge. Izzy

I have never found white ink to flow well enough, drying too quickly and making it rather blotchy as you have discovered. May I suggest you try replacing the ink with well thinned enamels, but still applied with the pen? Takes a bit of trial and error to work properly, loading the paint onto the pen with a brush at the right consistency, but does produce usable results which I found a bit easier to do than using a small brush. Izzy

A 'Big H' eh ? Hm. Perhaps it's size wise, and Hornby are going to try O..........to match Dapol with their Terrier/08/3F....... Izzy